Backhoe Hydraulics for Backhoe

[jgbanshee]

I am trying to figure out how to route hydraulics for a backhoe attachment for my Ford 345C tractor. I attached some photos of the loader valve, which I would like to run some sort of 'Power Beyond' setup cause the pump is pumping 26gpm and the remote cover that is on the top cover of the tranny. There is also a photo of a flow control valve that I am not sure exactly what it does.

 

[jgbanshee]

My question is: How can I go about getting hydraulics back to a backhoe without the use of a PTO pump? My first choice would be a Power Beyond setup. My second would be adding rear remotes from the tractor's internal hydraulics by means of the under the seat block off plate on the top cover.

 

[FULLPULL]

It depend's on the backhoe .We have a 730 loader on an old ford the backhoe does tie into the loader valve. I would look up a part's diagram on newholland's web site go to part's and there should be a diagram of your loader.

 

[MadReferee]

That valve doesn't look like it's configured for power beyond. But don't despair, all you have to figure out is which line is the valve inlet and which is the outlet. Since you won't be using the loader and backhoe simultaneously it doesn't matter.

Just put your backhoe valve in series with the loader valve, either before the loader valve (not recommended) or after the loader valve (recommended). You will have to determine the best way to plumb the connections since I don't guess you want the backhoe on there permanently. A couple of QD's and a loop hose will suffice for when the backhoe is off.

 

[jgbanshee]

MadReferee, are you saying that if I were to put the backhoe valve in series with the loader valve I would not be able to use both attachments simultaneously? Is this because of a reduction in flow?

 

[MadReferee]

Why would you even want to use both simultaneously, meaning activating a spool on each valve together?

A reduction in flow is not quite the right term but without being configured for power beyond, the first valve dumps its neutral pressure exhaust fluid back into the main circuit. Not good if you want to power another valve further on in the circuit.

 

[FULLPULL]

I found the tractor part's breakdown of your tractor including the loader and hydraulic breakdown on the nh website .Look under part's then lookup 345c.Our tractor is older a 1968.Your tractor is 1988 and newer as to the site .If you call the right nh dealer to work on ford/nh construction equipment i almost bet there is a control valve under the loader to add your backhoe to.This is just my opinion.I think you can make a loop from the presure side back to the return like madref said.That's the way our's is set up off of the loader valve. You cant take our backhoe line's loose and plug them when removing the backhoe as i was told it would break something from a old mechanic .You have to couple them back together to make a loop from the presue side back to the return if you run the tractor without the backhoe.All of this work's on our setup .We only use the backhoe or the loader only one implement at a time and where not starved for fluid or presure . I would ask someone at NH if it work's for your's or get a service manual.

 

[jgbanshee]

Do I just splice into the system with Tee fittings or is there something else that I must do?

 

[MadReferee]

Do I just splice into the system with Tee fittings or is there something else that I must do?

You cannot tee into a pressure circuit. You backhoe valve MUST be in series with the loader valve. You have to break the line and insert your backhoe in series. When the backhoe is not in the circuit, the circuit must remain complete using a jumper hose. Failure to do so will dead head the pump and your wallet will be short a significant amount of money.

 

[herringchoker]

I owned and operated a Ford 4500 with FEL and 755 backhoe for 17 years. I just looked up the hydraulic circuit diagram in the Service Manual. It shows pump output going to the inlet of the backhoe valve, then from the outlet of that valve to the inlet of the loader valve, and then from that valve's outlet to the tank. There was no power beyond function back then (1967). Like MadRef and FullPull say, hook them up in series. You won't be able to operate the hoe and loader at the same time (if you can even reach both sets of levers at the same time ), but that was never a problem with me.

 

[FULLPULL]

I would also call the backhoe manufacture's customer sevice they should have a circut layout for your unit .Or tell you there idea on how to plumb it in .It would be a good thing to do if the unit is under waranty.I will check out our unit and get a better idea of the exact way our's is ran.

 

[jgbanshee]

So, in series means that I would follow the inlet hose into the loader valve and then run an outlet from the loader valve to the backhoe as the inlet. Then the outlet from the backhoe would run back up to the inlet of the pump.

What about hooking up rear remotes through the tranny top cover? How is this done? Do I need to get an unloader valve?

 

[FULLPULL]

As far as the rear remote there are some listed at Newholland website under part's they have the whole tractor listed in microfish form you can acess at no cost .Just type in 345c there and your tractor loader is shown in detail with most of the part's you can buy.Hope this help's .It depend's on what year tractor you have 1988 to 1992 as to the part's shown.If you buy a remote kit new it has simple instruction's

 

[MadReferee]

So, in series means that I would follow the inlet hose into the loader valve and then run an outlet from the loader valve to the backhoe as the inlet. Then the outlet from the backhoe would run back up to the inlet of the pump.

Not quite.

Circuit goes: tank to pump inlet. Pump outlet to loader valve inlet. Loader valve outlet to backhoe inlet. Backhoe outlet to tank (or 3pt then tank).

 

[john_bud]

There was no power beyond function back then (1967).

Interesting, my 1963 ford loader hoe has a power beyond circuit on the loader valve from the factory. Maybe they went "cheap" by '67?


With all the options, listed there is still one not mentioned. Why not replace the loader valve with one that has a PB functionality built in? Then you can use the loader or hoe with out worry. Surplus center may have one that is just what you need. It would be in the $150 to $300 range.

Just a thought.

jb

 

[herringchoker]

John_bud: I checked the manual again and you are right, there is a power beyond line shown on the diagram. Sometimes I can't see for looking. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[FULLPULL]

I checked our ford 19-388 backhoe today it has no power beyond unless it is in the backhoe under the valve's .We have three line's to the backhoe 1 from the hydraulic pump on the front of the tractor to the backhoe.2 one from the backhoe to the ford 730 front loader resivoir the loader frame is the hydraulic resivior.3from the backhoe to run the front loader. It has to have three line's so it wont build up presure on our unit.I still think if you talk to your Ford NH dealer the mechanic should be able to look up your unit's set up and then there would be no question's and may even save you some money if your's has power beyond.I also would check with the backhoe manufacture to see what presure and flow rate is needed.

 

[MadReferee]

I checked our ford 19-388 backhoe today it has no power beyond unless it is in the backhoe under the valve's .We have three line's to the backhoe 1 from the hydraulic pump on the front of the tractor to the backhoe.2 one from the backhoe to the ford 730 front loader resivoir the loader frame is the hydraulic resivior.3from the backhoe to run the front loader.

That valve is configured for power beyond, no doubt about it.

You have a pressure inlet from the pump, a return to tank/reservoir outlet and a power beyond outlet that goes to the loader valve. You have the backhoe valve plumbed as the first valve in the circuit.

It has to have three line's so it wont build up presure on our unit.

What?? This makes no sense at all.

 

[MDM]

Not quite.

Circuit goes: tank to pump inlet. Pump outlet to loader valve inlet. Loader valve outlet to backhoe inlet. Backhoe outlet to tank (or 3pt then tank).

Hey Mad. I'm thinking of this set up you are referring to with my L2800. Tell me if I am correct in my thinking. My hydraulic block has one line going to the loader valve, and two returning to the block from the loader. One of the two lines returning from the loader goes to the tank, and one goes to the 3pt lift. To do what you are saying, I just run a line to the rear with a QD and another line back to the block where it will dump into the 3pt or tank depending on which line I use from the loader. I then have to put a small loop to connect the lines in the rear when not useing a backhoe or woodsplitter etc. Is this correct? I seen this done on my brother in law's JD 4110 and wondering how I could do the same set up on my Kubota. This seems it might be a little risky if I should ever get my loop between the 2 QD in the rear caught up on something and it comes unhooked.

 

[FULLPULL]

I guess what i mean is that i was suprised to see three line's to or from the backhoe.I was expecting two just the presure and return from the loader valve.Goes to show how much i pay attention i had this tractor in six piece's to repaint and replace the clutch.Since the loader is being supplyed though the backhoe then to the loader you need that extra line from the backhoe for a return line.The loader has a return also.Man we got line's running every where on this set up.