Dirt Moving Hydraulic problem with an 1100

[civesnedfield]

I think I may have just lost the charge pump on my Massey 1100.

Was hoping to get some advice from farmwithjunk. Any body heard from him?

 

[HCJtractor]

Recently wondered the same. He disappeared. I always enjoyed his comments and vast knowledge

 

[Dieseltech]

There are 2 spline couplers that can fail on driveline to charging pump, one at flywheel and one at trans/ diff case area. No way of telling until it is apart which has stripped both shaft and coupler splines. Be careful getting parts too, some shafts are differrent lenghths according to parts book.

 

[civesnedfield]

There are 2 spline couplers that can fail on driveline to charging pump, one at flywheel and one at trans/ diff case area. No way of telling until it is apart which has stripped both shaft and coupler splines. Be careful getting parts too, some shafts are differrent lenghths according to parts book.

Can you see both of those couplers once you have the front cover off? Service manual doesn't go into them or at least I haven't got to that part yet.

 

[Dieseltech]

Front PTO input coupler is bolted to flywheel, pressure plate and disc removal needed for access after split for clutch service. Rear of PTO input shaft has a coupler that is only seen when transmission is split from differential housing. Trans front cover does not need removed in either case. If tractor has high hours either one or both could be bad, no way to tell until you get it apart. Most start with clutch service split and see what they find at front end first.

 

[civesnedfield]

You just said a very bad five letter word --SPLIT--- not exactly what I wanted to hear. Got a mechanic coming over tomorrow to take a look at it. I'm gonna become religious and start praying it is not a coupler.


I guess next question is how do you diagnose a coupler failure without splitting the tractor.

 

[Dieseltech]

When drive to charging pump fails you will lose steering, brakes, MP and PTO hydraulic clutch operation which will happen when either front or rear spline couplers fail. Have a 1130 that just started making a howling noise and loses steering and brakes when shaft stops turning, but still grabs at times and everything works OK temporarily, then fails again. Best way to check for coupler failure is to remove charge pump cover assembly in frot of seat, PTO clutch drum should NOT turn with a pry bar with engine off. If it does drive to flywheel has been lost through a failed coupler. Most mechanics will do a clutch split first, if front is bad repair with shaft and flywheel spline adapter. Shaft will pull out the front so rear splines can be checked too, just can't see how rear coupler looks until a rear trans/diff case split is done.

 

[civesnedfield]

Dieseltech you've got mail.

 

[civesnedfield]

When drive to charging pump fails you will lose steering, brakes, MP and PTO hydraulic clutch operation which will happen when either front or rear spline couplers fail. Have a 1130 that just started making a howling noise and loses steering and brakes when shaft stops turning, but still grabs at times and everything works OK temporarily, then fails again. Best way to check for coupler failure is to remove charge pump cover assembly in frot of seat, PTO clutch drum should NOT turn with a pry bar with engine off. If it does drive to flywheel has been lost through a failed coupler. Most mechanics will do a clutch split first, if front is bad repair with shaft and flywheel spline adapter. Shaft will pull out the front so rear splines can be checked too, just can't see how rear coupler looks until a rear trans/diff case split is done.

Getting ready to split the tractor. My question is this. Are both couplers ahead of the PTO clutch. By ahead I mean on the engine side. Or is the rear one behind the PTO clutch, towards the rear of the tractor. I've looked thru the parts catalogues and can't figure out where the rear coupler is.

 

[Dieseltech]

Rear coupler is at trans-diff split joint, must be split to replace.

 

[civesnedfield]

Well the tractor is split. Front coupler is shot. In fact it's hard to tell that it was ever splined. If it weren't for about 1/8" of spline left on the one end you would swear that it was a bushing. Took a good look at the shaft it's worn a bit. Decided to replace it too. Clutch has another year or two left but decided while it was apart might just as well get it done. Took a look at the rear of the shaft don't see any wear what so ever so I am assuming that the rear coupler is ok.

Here's some pictures https://picasaweb.google.com/civesnedfield/Split20120629?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCKKCqJquiL7jtgE&feat=directlink

 

[Dieseltech]

Glad you found your trouble. Might try to see how much backlash shaft has when in place to get an idea how loose rear coupler is between both shafts. Hopefully it won't wiggle too much if OK.

 

[CrusherKing78]

I would replace your rear main seal on your crankshaft also. Cheap part and about an hour to change. You seem to have quiet a bit of oil in the bell housing. I'm refurbishing an 1150 at the moment.

 

[civesnedfield]

Glad you found your trouble. Might try to see how much backlash shaft has when in place to get an idea how loose rear coupler is between both shafts. Hopefully it won't wiggle too much if OK.

No wiggle at all. Went over yesterday and checked it out. I would say that backlash is nonexistent.

 

[civesnedfield]

I would replace your rear main seal on your crankshaft also. Cheap part and about an hour to change. You seem to have quiet a bit of oil in the bell housing. I'm refurbishing an 1150 at the moment.

Looked it over real good yesterday. I would say oil on bell housing is from previous issue. There isn't even a trace of a seep around the seal.

 

[tractorwall]

Hi new to site, I lost hydraulics to my steering .brakes and pto lift cylinder . I took the tractor apart and can not find any broken parts . My hydraulic pump looks like it might have to be changed . I can see all the gears from the internal hydraulic pump cover back to the pto and we have removed the gears and the spline that goes through the gear that turns the hydraulic pump . So am I missing wear the coupler's are because I don't see any and when we put the gears back together everything seems to work. I would like some info on this before I put it back together thinking it was just the hydraulic pump. Thanks in advance!!!!

 

[civesnedfield]

It is possible that it is the coupler that bolts to the flywheel. Only way to see it is to split the tractor.
This is what mine looked like. The splines you see on the far side should go all the way thru to the side you see in the picture.
Be prepared if it is the coupler, that you may have to replace the input shaft too.