hybrid - How do they work?

/ hybrid - How do they work? #21  
Typical Prius owner, they think their saving the world and want everyone to know that they drive one. Look at me, I'm driving a HYBRID! :rolleyes:

The toxic non-recyclable waste left by all these over-priced hybrid batteries will never be offset by the slight margin of better fuel mileage. Your not saving anything but in fact adding to the problem with a new one...

So very true.
 
/ hybrid - How do they work? #22  
I wonder why the engineers made it impossible to open the hood if the car looses power?
That loosed power may be flying around in there and present a hazard.:D
 
/ hybrid - How do they work? #23  
Typical Prius owner, they think their saving the world and want everyone to know that they drive one. Look at me, I'm driving a HYBRID! :rolleyes:

The toxic non-recyclable waste left by all these over-priced hybrid batteries will never be offset by the slight margin of better fuel mileage. Your not saving anything but in fact adding to the problem with a new one...

I took his post to mean that he likes his car so much he is buying another one. No more. No less.
 
/ hybrid - How do they work? #24  
A while back I read an article that talked about how the hybrid drive train is controlled by a computer algorithm. This algorithm is what takes all the inputs (speed, throttle position etc.) and decides how to power the drive train, when to charge the batteries etc. etc.

Toyota got into this hybrid field first, developed a really good algorithm and patented it. Later car companies (Honda they mentioned by name) have tried to develop their own algorithm. Their work has come out so close to that of Toyota that they dropped it and licensed the Toyota algorithm rather than spend $$$ in court if Toyota decided to sue them for infringement. So Toyota makes money not only on their hybrids but probably everyone else as well.
 
/ hybrid - How do they work? #25  
Great idea and a step in the right direction, but I'll stick with my TDI, thank you, and blow the doors off hybrids over the road.

Averaging all types of driving, my TDI gets the same overall mileage as a co-worker's Prius, around 44. His does better in town, but the TDI's better over the road.... and doesn't slow down on hills, even towing 1700 lbs! :D:D. (OK, I'm biased!:eek:)
 

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/ hybrid - How do they work? #26  
So very true.

not true.

There's a lot of myth, urban legend, and misinformation out there on hybrid vehicle batteries and vehicle production. If you were to add up the amount of nickel in the million+ hybrids sold since 1997, the total is less
than 1% of the world's annual nickel production (far more nickel is used for stainless steel, for example).)

Hybrid battery replacements aren't all that common, and on some models very rare. (The NiMH hybrid battery is designed to last the life of the car.) In the US, the hybrid battery packs are usually warrantied for 8 years/80,000 miles or longer (depending on manufacturer (Toyota is 8 years/100,000 miles, for example) and if an AT-PZEV model in a CA emission state (10 years/150,000 miles). Full warranty, NOT pro-rated. And the batteries are easily recycled, and contain no heavy metals, unlike the conventional 12v lead acid batteries found in every car.

Over the lifespan of the Prius, when compared to a comparable mid-sized gasoline vehicle, the Prius comes out ahead in the lifecycle assessment (LCA) for airborne emissions for CO2, NOx, SOx, HC, but actually does worse for PM (thanks to the material and vehicle production stages). Lifespan is given as 10 years use/100,000km. The CO2 break-even point for the 2004 Prius compared to this unnamed gasoline vehicle is given at 20,000km. (more CO2 is emitted during Prius production, but the Prius makes up for it over it's driven lifetime.)

Another neat thing is that the Prius is one of the first uses of
Toyota's Eco-Plastic (plastic made from plants, as opposed to
petroleum products). The battery is recycleable (NiMH), as is much of
the car (steel and aluminum body, for example).

To quote Toyota's press release:
http://pressroom.toyota.com/photo_librar...
<quote>
How long does the Prius battery last and what is the replacement cost?

The Prius battery (and the battery-power management system) has been designed to maximize battery life. In part this is done by keeping the battery at an optimum charge level - never fully draining it and never fully recharging it. As a result, the Prius battery leads a pretty easy life. We have lab data showing the equivalent of 180,000 miles with no deterioration and expect it to last the life of the vehicle.
We also expect battery technology to continue to improve: the second-generation model battery is 15% smaller, 25% lighter, and has 35% more specific power than the first. This is true of price as well. Between the 2003 and 2004 models, service battery costs came down 36% and we expect them to continue to drop so that by the time replacements may be needed it won't be a much of an issue. Since the car went on sale in 2000, Toyota has not replaced a single battery for wear and tear.

Is there a recycling plan in place for nickel-metal hydride batteries?

Toyota has a comprehensive battery recycling program in place and has been recycling nickel-metal hydride batteries since the RAV4 Electric Vehicle was introduced in 1998. Every part of the battery, from the precious metals to the plastic, plates, steel case and the wiring, is recycled. To ensure that batteries come back to Toyota, each battery has a phone number on it to call for recycling information and dealers are paid a $200 "bounty" for each battery.
</quote>

As for the batteries themselves:

The lead-acid (Pb-A) 12v accessory batteries in hybrids tend to be smaller than those found in every traditional gasoline vehicle. Recycling programs are in place for traditional lead-acid batteries.

All the hybrids on the market use NiMH (Nickel-Metal Hydride) batteries, which contain no heavy metals (so they're not hazardous waste, like the Pb-A batteries), and are easily recycled. Often they'll have labels on the packs themselves listing who to contact to recycle them, and often there's a nice cash bounty as well.
 
/ hybrid - How do they work? #27  
Contrary to popular belief it is possible to buy a hybrid just because you like the car, not everyone who buys a hybrid wants to save the earth. I compared the Prius to a Corolla and it was roomier, faster and had neat gauges to entertain. :D
 
/ hybrid - How do they work? #28  
I am very interested in the plugs in cars that are being developed. If they can handle the cold better than my cordless drill, one would be a great second vehicle for us all year round.
 
/ hybrid - How do they work? #29  
Contrary to popular belief it is possible to buy a hybrid just because you like the car, not everyone who buys a hybrid wants to save the earth. I compared the Prius to a Corolla and it was roomier, faster and had neat gauges to entertain. :D

And that is how it should be. You buy a car because it meets your needs. :) I have a big honking truck but the Prius owners speeding past me look down on me. Well, not literally :D but figuratively.

I see a couple different Priuses on my drive to/from work. I really don't see why they bought the car. They are driving mainly highway miles so the battery is not in play. But if the car makes them happy go for it. There is a TDI Beatle I see as well. They have marked on the back of the car, 48mpg. :) Pretty good mpg.

Later,
Dan
 
/ hybrid - How do they work? #30  
I just reread my last post and realized that it makes less sense than usual. :eek:
I meant to say "plug in cars"
 
/ hybrid - How do they work? #31  
I bought my '04 Prius because I live 50 miles each way from work and wanted to be able to drive back and forth without going broke.

yes, it get's good fuel economy, usually in the 48 MPG range, better if I drive slower. Took a trip yesterday and averaged 51 for about a 125 mile RT.

It's been a great car for me, only $600 in repairs for 185K miles. So I certainly wanted to get another one.

Not saving the planet, at least not too much of it. Not a tree hugger either. Buy what suits you best.
 
/ hybrid - How do they work? #32  
And that is how it should be. You buy a car because it meets your needs. :) I really don't see why they bought the car. They are driving mainly highway miles so the battery is not in play.
Later,
Dan

Well, actually you are partially right - the best gas milage is in the city, but it only drops a few mpg on the highway. When the highway is hilly, and you go down hill, the batteries charge, and when you go up hill extra power comes from the battery motor that you just charged.
 
/ hybrid - How do they work? #33  
Well, actually you are partially right - the best gas milage is in the city, but it only drops a few mpg on the highway. When the highway is hilly, and you go down hill, the batteries charge, and when you go up hill extra power comes from the battery motor that you just charged.

I should have worded my statement a bit different. :D If one is driving mostly/mainly on the highway I don't see how paying extra for a hybrid vs a similar econo car make money sense. In the city I would think that the hybrid make money sense.

The battery charges when going down the hill even though the engine is running? I take it the car must have some sort of cruise control that charges the battery yet prevents the battery charging from slowing the car from X mph? Pretty nifty.

I would be more nifty if you could run solar panels to create power which one could use to run the car. I keep reading that the price per PV watt was down to $2 per watt. And that it should be $1 per watt soon. I looked at some installed cost of say a 6,000 watt system...

The ball park prices I was seeing on the web had an installed cost of $8-9 per watt! 8*6,000 is a great big pile of money. :D Even $4 per watt times 6,000 is a big pile of money. :eek::D

I still don't trust the batteries in the hybrid. The warranties are interesting but if the battery fails right after the end of the warranty one is out of a pile of money. Do they prorate the batteries after the warranty has ended?

Later,
Dan
 
/ hybrid - How do they work? #34  
.......................<snip> I still don't trust the batteries in the hybrid. The warranties are interesting but if the battery fails right after the end of the warranty one is out of a pile of money. ....<snip>.......


I don't see what the problem is. If you are worried about the battery life, don't buy a hybrid and quit worrying about those that have purchased one. Maybe they just like having something unique in the same way that many of of us own tractors that don't really "pay for themselves".

Anyone ever own a boat?? :confused:
 
/ hybrid - How do they work? #35  
I'd be more concerned about unforseen repair costs due to unanticipated damage or wear and tear on ridiculously expensive electrical components.

I read a long-term review where a journalist took a Prius to the cottage and scuffed the undercarriage of the car on the high crown of the cottage road, damaging the casing on the main bus cable that runs from the battery pack to the electric motor.

The cost to replace the damaged cable? $3000.00
 
/ hybrid - How do they work? #36  
The TDI goes "vroom vroom" and the prius goes "Ahhhhhhhhh", I love that commercial and I am glad to see that VW is finally announcing the superiority. Until there is a plug in hybrid or basicly an electric car with a gas generator backup then the TDI is the winner IMO.
 
/ hybrid - How do they work? #38  
I don't see what the problem is. If you are worried about the battery life, don't buy a hybrid and quit worrying about those that have purchased one. Maybe they just like having something unique in the same way that many of of us own tractors that don't really "pay for themselves".

Well, the subject of this thread is how do hybrids work. We have some TBNers who own hybrids who are sharing some interesting information from real experience not from market BS. I still don't trust the batteries but that does not mean I'm not interested in the technology. And its possible that my concerns about the battery life are not warranted, pun intended. I have NEVER said that someone should not buy a hybrid. If they want it and have the money, buy one and have fun.

I buy cars and tractors to serve a function at a given price. The information I have read over the years says that hybrids cost more money for a comparable vehicle due to the battery and customer demand. Demand will go up and down with the market. But if the technology of the battery is such that it is reliable and does not have to replaced during a long time period of say 8-10 years then for me hybrids get interesting.

Later,
Dan
 
/ hybrid - How do they work? #39  
I'm a member of two Prius/Hybrid discussion boards. I'd say that discussions/laments about battery failure and replacement are most noticed by their absence.

The traction battery in the Prius consists of set of individual cells. The bad cell or cells can be replaced on an individual basis, assuming the failure was not caused by mechanical damage in a crash of course.

I've had to make two repairs on mine. One was an electrically driven coolant pump failure at about 110K. I'd call that was a hybrid connected failure as all the other vehicles I'm familiar with don't have electric coolant pumps. This particular pump cools the electronic inverter that raises the battery voltage to the 500V that the system uses.

The other repair was a right front wheel bearing that wore out. Oh, I also replaced the 12V auxiliary battery because it was weak, but had not failed yet.

On the other hand I've spent much more on repairs to my 97 Ford Expedition, including several replacement spark coils and at least two batteries. Not to mention shocks and brakes. And that's with less than 119K miles.

So I'm happy with my Prius and looking forward to getting the new one when it shows up.
 
/ hybrid - How do they work? #40  
I guess you are hoping the coolant pump failure hasn't shortened the life of the inverter, and it lasts until you get rid of the current (no pun intended) car.
That inverter is a $2000.00 item. The Prius has too many expensive hybrid related components that, if any fail, will have instantly negated any fuel efficiency gains.
 

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