Hy-Guard or UTV

[Lineman North Florida]

I am getting ready to change my hydraulic fluid and filter on my 5093E and would like some opinions from JD owners about using Universal Tractor Fluid that meets the same standards as JD Hy-guard or stick with the high priced JD fluid, opinions appreciated. Charlie.

 

[LouNY]

Well I'll reverse the question,
how much fluid does she hold 20-25 gallons?
how often do you change it?
your hydraulic system runns at almost 3000 PSI.
you have a power shuttle with wet clutches.
And your tractor cost how much?
You should be able to find it for around $80 for 5 gallon bucket.

I use Cen-Pe-Co multi purpose which cost more then hy guard or hy tran.

 

[Bigfoot62]

I am getting ready to change my hydraulic fluid and filter on my 5093E and would like some opinions from JD owners about using Universal Tractor Fluid that meets the same standards as JD Hy-guard or stick with the high priced JD fluid, opinions appreciated. Charlie.

You asked for opinions, here's mine.
I've done it both ways. Typically, if it's still under warranty, I go with the JD fluid. If it's not under warranty, I use a very high quality tractor transmission/hydraulic fluid, like MobilFluid 424. The local jobber is an Exxon/Mobil dealer. 424 meets or exceeds JD and NH specs. (the only two brands of tractors that I own)
Remember that John Deere doesn't own a refinery. SOMEBODY else makes their oil. However, I would NOT buy the generic, cheap-as-you-can-find stuff. Some of it is junk. You may find sediment in the bottom of the bucket.

 

[beenthere]

Saw a note the other day in the JD Furrow mag that there is no refereeing body that checks the standards claimed, so it is just the sellers' word that it meets the JD standard.

I've no problem with anyone substituting another oil.. but I wouldn't take the chance nor suggest anyone else risk it either.

Wouldn't take long for the tractor being repaired at a dealers' shop to eat up any money saved buying cheap oil..

 

[rScotty]

I am getting ready to change my hydraulic fluid and filter on my 5093E and would like some opinions from JD owners about using Universal Tractor Fluid that meets the same standards as JD Hy-guard or stick with the high priced JD fluid, opinions appreciated. Charlie.

Charlie, the problem as I see it is that I don't think there is any independent testing standard or agency for transmission fluid like there is for motor oils (API & SAE). If there is, someone please let me know.

If there isn't a standard, then how are we to kow know whether a generic UTF meets the same standards as JD Hy-Gard or Cat whatever? Is it just because it says so on the label? It would be nice to believe the label, but I wonder what is it that they are really saying?

After all, if there is no standard and no governing body for transmission fluid like there is for motor oils (API & SAE), then the manufacturers of these UTF fluids can't appeal to some sort of performance standard or proportion of ingrediants because there just isn't any such thing.

So with neither knowledge or oversight, the manufacturer of the UTF is free to write anything he honestly wants to believe on the label, and maybe it's right and maybe not...and maybe the customer will believe it too. And in the absence of a performance or composition standard, he is also free to put whatever he wants into the container. Does he have any liability? Or any reason to provide a standard quality product?

At least when a tractor company markets their own transmission fluid we have a chance that the fluid is being made to some sort of in-house manufacturing standard. The tractor company has a vested interest in making an oil that works reliably in their own products.
rScotty

 

[arlen4720]

Low vis Hygard for me! I even tried Amsoil once that claimed to meet the JD standard. It made a growling noise in the pto gear case. I drained it after a few hours and went back to Hygard. It’s just easier to use OEM lubes and filters.

 

[swines]

Remember that John Deere doesn't own a refinery. SOMEBODY else makes their oil.

They do, however, have a lubrication engineering department complete with their own lubrication engineers. They are responsible for designing the John Deere oils, greases, hydraulic fluid, etc. The lubrication performance is designed for John Deere equipment. Both Hy-Gard fluids are multi-viscosity fluids with high-viscosity index, and both contain about 3% zinc as an anti-wear additive. The hydraulic fluid also has friction modifiers for correct clutch engagement. Do other hydraulic fluids meet the requirements? I don't think anyone knows as has been previously pointed out - there is no independent agency that certifies compliance with a specific standard for hydraulic oil.

Here's my question. How much does your piece of equipment cost? Are you willing to pay the repair price if you use a non OEM fluid - and that fluid causes wear and/or a malfunction? Personally, I think it's foolish to attempt to save money on the single fluid in a tractor that runs all of the hydraulics and transmission.

 

[Wagtail]

They do, however, have a lubrication engineering department complete with their own lubrication engineers. They are responsible for designing the John Deere oils, greases, hydraulic fluid, etc. The lubrication performance is designed for John Deere equipment. Both Hy-Gard fluids are multi-viscosity fluids with high-viscosity index, and both contain about 3% zinc as an anti-wear additive. The hydraulic fluid also has friction modifiers for correct clutch engagement. Do other hydraulic fluids meet the requirements? I don't think anyone knows as has been previously pointed out - there is no independent agency that certifies compliance with a specific standard for hydraulic oil.

Here's my question. How much does your piece of equipment cost? Are you willing to pay the repair price if you use a non OEM fluid - and that fluid causes wear and/or a malfunction? Personally, I think it's foolish to attempt to save money on the single fluid in a tractor that runs all of the hydraulics and transmission.

^^^ This! :thumbsup:

Engine oil and oil filters (YANMAR spec.) I'll source from my local auto-parts shop. I'll spend the money to get the OEM hydraulic fluid and hydraulic filter because mine's a HST.

Australia does have a national testing/standards facility for fuels and lubricants.

 

[JimRB]

I recall that in Georgia some state department issued a no sale order for fluids that did not meet specs. I got some generic fluid at my JD dealer. I keep saying I need to change back to JD brand or some name brand like Mobil this season.

 

[rScotty]

I recall that in Georgia some state department issued a no sale order for fluids that did not meet specs. I got some generic fluid at my JD dealer. I keep saying I need to change back to JD brand or some name brand like Mobil this season.

Close. According to web articles, the Georgia "stop sales" order wasn't aimed at specs or ingredients, it was for aimed at labeling. But however aimed, the intent seems to have been to prevent the sale of oils labeled as meeting outdated 303 specs - since that would be impossible today.

If so, then now any UTF mystery oils sold in Georgia might have to have labels saying they meet a modern spec: JDJ20C/D. Be interesting to see if they do claim a current spec. If so, it might just get the legal and technical people at JD interested. - and that could be about as smart as kicking a sleeping giant......

For anyone who is curious & wants to read more, just Google "Georgia & JD303".
Kinda interesting articles, but hey, it's just web info. You gotta figure it's probably about as true as the labels on the UTF oil, or alien space invaders.... or whatevers.....all best taken as entertainment rather than science.
enjoy, rScotty

 

[Lineman North Florida]

Well, I talked to several of the full time farmers in my area who use newer JD tractors and put over 500hrs a year on them and they all said as soon as the warranty ran out they switched to Travellers or some other equivalent at around $30 to $40 per 5 gallon bucket and none claimed to have had a problem, so I changed mine this past weekend and went with Extreme Pure-Flo from Rural King at $34 per 5 gallon bucket, I also used all Napa Gold filters and Chevron Delo 15W-40 heavy duty diesel engine oil, so wish me luck, we will see how it all pans out, and thanks for the responses. Charlie.

 

[Oldoak]

Kinda interesting articles, but hey, it's just web info. You gotta figure it's probably about as true as the labels on the UTF oil, or alien space invaders.... or whatevers.....all best taken as entertainment rather than science.

The same could apply to comments on any internet blog sites.

The key is separating fact from fiction. A good point for TBN members is that we get a lot of first hand experience comments to learn from.

 

[ruffdog]

What are the recommended ISO viscosity grade (VG) and viscosity index (VI) numbers that the Deere oil offers? Does the cheaper oil offer those same minimum VI and VG numbers? Most of the time, you get what you pay for. Knowing those numbers means you can shop for a comparable oil with a different brand.

 

[Storm56]

Have 5 tractors, from 15 hp to 80 hp. 1 hydro, 1 powershift and 3 gear. Use Traveller Premium from TSC. Never an issue. Have 2 friends that own Kubota hydro's. They got sticker shock from the Kubota dealer when they priced it, asked me what I used. They both switched and are very satisfied. YMMV...

 

[ruffdog]

Hy-gard oils:

Hy-Gard™ Educational Video - YouTube

PMB Product:

 

[rScotty]

The whole UTF debate is a good example of something that is a complete mystery to a lot of us older mechanical guys. We may be kind of out of date these days, but we still think and wonder about how things have changed.

The confusing part is that on the one hand there are these scientist types who spend years getting educated and then designing and testing lubricants of all kinds to get one that works best. Viscosity, additives, wear, corrosion... and a ton of other things. We may think those oily egg-heads are strange people getting paid to do weird jobs, but I think we also agree they probably know what they are doing.

And on the other hand we have a non-mechanical & often newer generation who prefer to believe that their own opinions and emotions are just as likely to be true as the scientific evidence. That is getting to be a more and more common way to look at the world and it is exactly the kind of change in viewpoint what confuses us old timers.....How did it get this way? What happened to change from believing in science to believing in opinion & emotion? It's sort of like believing that having an opinion will make it true. Why so?

Like I said, It's confusing....rScotty