HST vs. Gear

/ HST vs. Gear #81  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Increased maintenance costs; I'm not buying that - your opinion )</font>

I'd ventur to guess that the hydro trans uses a filter.... none of my gear trans tractors do.. so there is a marginal increased cost. IS there any frequency change difference on t he hydro trans vs gear trans? ( I don't know ?? )

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( A transmission overhaul; HA! I'm certainly not buying that even a little )</font>

Hmm.. I'd 'buy' that one.. I can't see repairing a sheelled out gear tranny being more.. or as much as repairing a shelle dout hst.

As was posted by another.. an hst for his tractor was gonna cost 5g's.. that's a tad steep /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Soundguy
 
/ HST vs. Gear #82  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( As was posted by another.. an hst for his tractor was gonna cost 5g's.. that's a tad steep /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Soundguy )</font>

C'mon now Chris. You know good and well that I'm not picking on a gear transmission, only the obvious incorrect assertions by the one arrogant guy. I can give you tons and tons of instances where someone has been stuck by an unscrupulous dealer on a repair of a standard transmission. I've had several dozen apart. I assure you that clutch discs, pressure plates, throw out bearings, synchronizers, incorrectly cast gears, thrust bearings etc. etc. can and do wear out. That's not to mention the sand from cheap castings that I've found in some of the cheap imports transmissions that have wrecked the transmission. You can find poorly made junk out there rather easily.

However, as I've maintained, I'm not trying to say that gear transmissions are junk, but I think it is extremely telling of a person's experience and intelligence to try to use bogus and incorrect twenty year old scare tactics to paint all hydro transmission tractors as being bad. That would be just about as intelligent to say as would saying that hydro transmissions built now by Kubota are no better than the first ones built 20 years ago. I don't think it is worth the breath to try to argue that hydro transmissions made now are not any better than the first versions made decades ago. Nobody with any sense could argue that with a straight face.

As maintained in the true factual discussions, it would really be pure preference. I don't mind gear transmissions at all, but now that I've had a top of the line hydro setup, I like it better. Big deal! I'm not trying to make up obvious BS to say that manual gear transmissions are now junk. There may be some quality issues with a 3rd world tractor building their first generation of a hydro transmission, but I'd say that there would be just as many potential issues with their first version of a gear driveline as well. The scare tactics and blatent insulting comments such as hydros are for women and lazy people have no place here. Those people can crawl back into the cave whence they came and continue to plan what they are going to do when they come to the edge of the earth; since we all know that the earth is flat. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
/ HST vs. Gear #83  
The earth isn't flat? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif That is unpossible! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
 
/ HST vs. Gear #84  
Excellent post.....!!!!!! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
/ HST vs. Gear #85  
As a Girly Man I enjoy the ease and simplicity of the HST, thank you... cagy
 
/ HST vs. Gear #86  
I just want to offer my humble apology for hurting your feelings. I too have nothing against hydro's. Heck, I might even buy another one some day if I win the lottery.
 
/ HST vs. Gear #87  
This topic has about the same degree of intensity/logic/emotions as a bunch of handgunners trying to decide which is better, wheelguns or autoloaders. I like 'em both. I use the autoloaders for target work and hunt with a wheelgun. (Incidentally, a 125 grain jhp out of a .357 Trooper MK III with a 6 inch barrel will take out a groundhog at 135 yards. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif) I know target shooters who use revolvers and hunters who use autoloaders. It's just a matter of what works for you in either case.

HST and/or gear have their proponents for different tasks, but anyone worthy of driving a tractor in the first place will be able to use either with good effect for whatever they want to do. I'm just trying to weigh a number of factors to let me decide where to spend my money when I finally get a replacement for my little Kubota. I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I have a lot of fun debating the merits of this or that feature and listening to what everyone thinks and what their reasons are. Of course, it helps a lot if the reasons given are based in logic rather than emotion for the learning process, but the emotional side adds to the fun, up to a point.

So far as I can tell, the following different types of transmissions are out there:

Non-synchro manuals like a pre WWII automotive crashbox. You can shift between forward gears on the move if you're good, but you need to stop between ranges and between forward and backward. Reverse is built into the main tranny and is part of the shift pattern.

Synchro manuals which are intended to be shifted from gear to gear while moving and take much less skill to avoid grinding. Reverse may be in the main tranny or as a choice among the ranges. You need to stop to change ranges or directions, but you'll have several speeds in reverse, often as many as you have forwards.

Shuttle shifts, which have the reverse and low or medium range selection positions aligned with each other to allow easy changes of direction. Some require clutching between direction changes and some don't, but you don't have to stop moving to shift the directional lever.

Power shuttles which are similar to the above, but you don't use a clutch, just move a lever usually located near the steering wheel. Shifting into reverse while moving forward is considered normal operating procedure and the tractor slows and reverses for you.

HSTs, which have what amounts to a hydraulic pump driving fluid to move the tractor. You control the speed and direction of the tractor through a valve usually controlled by foot operated levers. Many of these have a cruise control feature that locks in a given valve position by one means or another.

HSTs seem to be subdivided into several groups, I think. One group shifts the valves to neutral whenever a brake pedal is moved. A second group only does this when both brake pedals are moved. It seems some have the cruise control deactivated by a brake and some don't, but I think all will have the cruise deactivated by both brakes.

Lastly, and most complex on the development scale, are the electronically controlled hydros offered by Deere and maybe others. On these the controls for hydro are "drive by wire" to minimize the pedal pressure needed to keep the tractor moving under load. This, coupled with Kubota making reference to minimizing pedal pressure on their latest units, makes me believe that many hydros need a fairly heavy pressure on the pedals when the tractor is pulling hard.

I'd appreciate any corrections or additions to my little list. If you can put names with the different types, including brand, model, and tranny name, it might help the ignorant among us get a better grasp on this thing. For example, Kubota has an HST, a GST and an FST, while Deere has a collar shift and a sychroshift and maybe a shuttleshift and a powershuttle in addition to the hydro and the ehydro and on and on.

At least no one here has strongly favored a particular tranny type because of the color of the oil inside it -- yet!
 
/ HST vs. Gear #88  
Don't forget about Kubotas Glide Shift Transmission
Shifting on the go clutchlessly since 1996 on our L4200
 
/ HST vs. Gear #90  
I have a question to add to this concerning and HST. Since I read in here that an HST has many seals could they dry up and cause problems if the tractor frrequently sits for long periods of time without being used?
 
/ HST vs. Gear #91  
Dargo Quote: "Sorry, I can honestly say that I've simply just lost interest in this discussion when it becomes this ridiculous. I'm going to step outside and watch the cows jump over the moon. Hopefully I won't catch my skirt on the fence on my way out." )</font>


Dargo nailed it on this one. Somone please put this one into the "all time best" category.
 
/ HST vs. Gear #92  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( C'mon now Chris. You know good and well that I'm not picking on a gear transmission )</font>

I know.. I forgot to add the smiley /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif sorry.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( one arrogant guy. I can give you tons and tons of instances where someone has been stuck by an unscrupulous dealer on a repair of a standard transmission. I've had several dozen apart. I assure you that clutch discs, pressure plates, throw out bearings, synchronizers, incorrectly cast gears, thrust bearings etc. etc. can and do wear out. That's not to mention the sand from cheap castings that I've found in some of the cheap imports )</font>

I a;so agree.. a shelled out gear tranny is still going to be an expensive rebuild... I have a feeling it will be slightly less expensive than a hydro. I also get the feeling after looking at a parts manual.. that if I had 2 tractors with bad trannies.. and one was a hydro.. I'd send the hydro to the dealer... I feel confident in pulling the gear trans apart way more than I would trust myself inthe hydro tranny. Similarly.. many of our local tractor repair shpos usually refer you to the OE dealer for hydro trans repairs... though i do know that one local guy will work on dual power setups and the like.. etc..

Soundguy
 
/ HST vs. Gear #93  
DaTeacha,

I would keep the little bota to have a second tractor for the small jobs a larger tractor is not best suited for.
And if you decide on HST tranny you can always get your gear fix with the bota.
 
/ HST vs. Gear #94  
Everybody has an opinion. It shows a “higher lever of conciousness” when a person is able to respect someone else’s opinions & beliefs, especially when those opinions are different from their own. When people are unable to respect others opinions because they don’t understand or agree with them it leads to fights and even wars.

A gradual consensus seems to have evolved at the TBN site leading to an understanding that it is the owner, rather than the tractor type, that determines what is best for each particular person
 
/ HST vs. Gear #95  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Am I the only guy here who uses turning brakes? To me the ability to lock a rear wheel and pivot on it when needed, as I have several times in recent weeks, makes the gear the tranny of choice. I have yet to see a hydro that allows you to lock one rear wheel when needed for tight quarters maneuvering. If you know of one in the sub 30 hp range, please share your knowledge. And, yes, I've driven a Deere with the pedals on both sides - a 3120. )</font>

I have a JD 4200 HST (26 Hp) and I use the brakes for turning frequently. I can lock one wheel and turn this machine on a dime. I back drag the driveway and use the brakes to steer the tractor.
Anyway that is my 2 cents worth
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
/ HST vs. Gear #96  
Just to keep the thread current.. here is a link to a message on this board, just posted, about another fellow with a potential 6500$ HST headache /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Not bad.. 2 in 2 weeks /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Seriously though... Seems like these bad boys are a tad difficult to troubleshoot... guess you can't just pop the top cover and roll the input shaft over and look for missing teeth huh /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Soundguy
 
/ HST vs. Gear #97  
Whoops, looks like you neglected to post the link? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Sounds like we will all have to wait at least another 50 years or so for HST technology to catch up to Gear technology! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

I've only got 20 years on our HST so far so probably won't be able to discover whether or not it is reliable during this lifetime, maybe the Grandson can report on the HST situation in 2075 or so..... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
/ HST vs. Gear #98  
/ HST vs. Gear #99  
That is simple to adjust with the adjustment bolt in about two minutes, sounds like a good stealer dealer to me.... /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 
/ HST vs. Gear #100  
At least one of the dealers doesn't have a clue what they are doing. But which one?
 

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