HST vs. Gear

NHeuro · Jan 10, 2006

I drove a hydro is diferent tractors
And also a tc 45 d like jinman.
But i think a hydro isn't a need even not for mowing work.
But I think a hydro is something very american.
If you have ever driven a transmission like the one of a TN you will never return to a hydro.
After a time of using it you will love it, at the beginning is missed my hydro, but now i love my manual transmission for all kinds of work and in my case, most of the work is mowing work.
With a hydro you will lose much torque and hp and also a bit of fuel but if you are working ahrd with your hydro it will also wear, like the pump or the clutch you will See it, i am sure of it.

NHeuro · Jan 10, 2006

A clutch of shuttle shift will also wear, but i've calculated it, on my model i can change every 1500-2000h my clutch when i am counting the extra oil and filters of the tc 45 d.
I need to replace every 1000 h my oil and 1 filter.
On my tc 45 d i needed to replace every 300h my oil and filterS and i need more oil i think 36 l

Turbys_1700 · Jan 10, 2006

I've owned a HST Wheel Horse 20 HP Onan with 54" deck. Ran great. Was a pleasure to drive. Been running a YM1700 with 5' RFM for 12 years. Ususally mow in 6th gear. My next tractor will be geared. I'm lookin to upgrade to a Woods 990 and need 35 HP at the pto. Probably gonna be a L4400. Don't need a lot of loader work. If I was gonna do a lot of loader work I would get the HST and not look back. They are very reliable.

daTeacha · Jan 10, 2006

Am I the only guy here who uses turning brakes? To me the ability to lock a rear wheel and pivot on it when needed, as I have several times in recent weeks, makes the gear the tranny of choice. I have yet to see a hydro that allows you to lock one rear wheel when needed for tight quarters maneuvering. If you know of one in the sub 30 hp range, please share your knowledge. And, yes, I've driven a Deere with the pedals on both sides - a 3120.

jinman · Jan 10, 2006

( If you know of one in the sub 30 hp range, please share your knowledge. )

Raise your hp by 5 and I'll post a picture of one. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

JerryG · Jan 10, 2006

If you know of one in the sub 30 hp range, please share your knowledge. 
PTO or engine horsepower?

Trail_Time · Jan 10, 2006

The 1320 has HST and a split brake pedal. They are both on the same side... tough to use, but it does work.

genelp · Jan 10, 2006

I think it is just a matter of personal preference and the task at hand. Before I purchased my Kubota, I used two wheel horeses to mow my lawn. One was a gear driven 12 hp with a 42" deck, the other was a 17 hp hydro with a 48" deck. the former owner of my propery didn't mow the yard behind the dam. When I decided to start mowing that area I tried the 17 hp hydro and ended up using the 12 hp gear to get through the high grass (and weeds /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif). That being said, I have lots of trees to mow around and a fairly long lane to clean snow out of, so I couldn't imagine mowing my yard or pushing snow without the hydro. I sold the 12 hp wheel horse and now have the 17 hp hydro Wheelhorse and hydro on my Kubota. Just works best for my particular circumstances.

genelp

daTeacha · Jan 10, 2006

The Agco/MF 33? Or bigger? I drove an ST33 with the shuttle, and despite the fact that it definitely seemed to shrink as I drove it, it won't fit where I need to work. Right now, I'm thinking strongly about the Case/NH 23 gear model.

I thought the Deere with the left brake pedals would work, but even though I was leaning pretty hard on one brake pedal, the inside wheel kept turning as I pushed on the hydro to make the tractor move.

JerryG · Jan 10, 2006

Have you looked at the MF 1528 or the MF1531? They have a smaller frame than the 1533. The 1531 has the engine as the 1533, but in the smaller package.

Sorry forgot that you said that you wanted a manual tranny. The 1531 is hydo only and the only manual in the 1428 is a 9x3 not a shuttle.

jinman · Jan 10, 2006

( I thought the Deere with the left brake pedals would work, but even though I was leaning pretty hard on one brake pedal, the inside wheel kept turning as I pushed on the hydro to make the tractor move. )

Did you have it in 4WD? I have to brake much harder to lock a wheel when I'm in 4WD than in 2WD. Also, on my tractor with the cruise control engaged, I can step on either brake pedal for differential braking and the cruise stays engaged. I have to step on both pedals for it to drop out of cruise. I agree that differential braking is a big advantage. I just don't see where it makes any difference between gear and hydro transmission. It's the layout of the controls that is the biggest issue.

I think even a New Holland TC30 with optional cruise could also use differential braking. You'd have to set the cruise and then use your right foot on the brake pedals, but I don't see why you could not do it. It sure is not convenient, but I do think it's possible. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

daTeacha · Jan 10, 2006

My Massey dealer is basically a joke unless you're looking at things over 100hp. I have an Agco dealer - 3 actually - nearby, but the things in stock are few. I drove an ST28 with HST and thought the pedal pressure needed to move the thing was pretty high. I vary my speed a lot as I use the tractor. The guy at that store figured I needed a shuttle shift after listening to me explain what I do with a tractor. It, too, would not pivot on one rear wheel. I haven't seen a 31, but hope to at Power Show Ohio in a couple of weeks.

My main mowing machine is a hydro Cadet 109 and it works fine at that. When I used it as my only tractor, I was always working the hydro lever up and down as well as the throttle lever to do things other than mowing. With the Kubota, I pick a gear and use the foot throttle for additional power when the hand throttle setting isn't enough.

Bird · Jan 10, 2006

Jim, I don't know about all the other models of New Holland, but my cousin has a TC29D and one of the brake pedals causes the cruise to turn off while the other does not (I've forgotten which is which, but the owner's manual tells you about it). My Kubota B2710 worked like your New Holland.

daTeacha · Jan 10, 2006

One pedal doesn't shut off the cruise on some tractors but it doesn't on others? Why don't the sales guys know these things? I guess almost everything can be done differently on different machines. On the ones I've tried, the cruise shuts off with either brake.

Yes, the 3120 was in 4wd at the time. It never occurred to me that it would make it harder to turn, but since my Kubota is permanently locked in 4wd, I'm not in the habit of running without it. I figured that the turning front wheels would help pull the front end around, but come to think of it, my little Kubota lurches when turning tight -- without the brake -- on a hard surface in 4wd. I presume it's axle "wrapup", which could translate to an increase in needed pedal pressure in a hydro.

I guess I need to go drive some more tractors and try things both ways. What a shame! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

timb · Jan 10, 2006

One quick note for folks still kicking tires and wondering about leg pain (bum knees being all too common) but still leaning towards a manual tranny - an electro-hydraulic shuttle shift (like Deere's ePowerReverser or NH EHSS) or all-hydraulic (like Deere's PowerReverser) should take very little pedal pressure to work the clutch as to shift you're only moving a linkage that's opening/closing hydraulic ports on a valve body - NOT the heavy pressure plate/throwout springs of a dry clutch. And with the clutchless shuttle action - the number of times you have to 'leg' even the light effort pedal is reduced.

tjkadar · Jan 10, 2006

I have the hydraulic shuttle shift on my M6800 and I don't need to use the clutch unless I want to upshift or downshift while moving. For most of my work, this is not a real concern. Often times, I'll run the tractor for 8 to 10 hours and not have to touch the clutch once.

HST and Gear both have their benefits and their compromises. It is impossible to say one is better then the other because not everyone is doing the same thing with their tractors. Buy the transmission that suits you and your work. Pretty simple - eh? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

NHeuro · Jan 10, 2006

On my model i can't buy a EHSS but only a SSS but i am happy with it very happy, but if it was available i would buy it w/o any doubt.

I find: a hydro is nice in the little HP like little mowers like a NH TZ 24

NHeuro · Jan 10, 2006

I use a zero turn for mowing in some narrow places and around difficult trees. When i had my hydro i used always my cruise control because it wasn't nice to push at the pedal with the same pressure.
So now i shift maybe 25 times on 3h. So why need i a hydro??
The transmission shifts very easy with only one finger and i like this more as the 2 pedals with a lot of disadvantages!

3RRL · Jan 10, 2006

( .Yes, the 3120 was in 4wd at the time. It never occurred to me that it would make it harder to turn, but since my Kubota is permanently locked in 4wd, I'm not in the habit of running without it. I figured that the turning front wheels would help pull the front end around, but come to think of it, my little Kubota lurches when turning tight -- without the brake -- on a hard surface in 4wd.)

Da Teacha,
It is not recommended to engage 4wd on hard surfaces, hard enough where you can't get wheel slip when turning. You'll screw up the drive train components because of the extra stess like you mentioned above.
Also, using the brake for turning works better in 2wd for exactly that same reason. In 4wd the wheels want to keep turning and the tractor has a hard time pivoting on the braked rear wheel. In 4wd the front and rear drive train is engaged and when you brake, you tend to stop motion to all wheels, rather than the intended rear wheel and allowing the fronts to "roll" along with resistance to them.
Just my 2 cents...

755inNY · Jan 10, 2006

I have yet to see a hydro that allows you to lock one rear wheel when needed for tight quarters maneuvering. If you know of one in the sub 30 hp range 

daTeacha,
I used differential braking a lot on my JD 755 HST (20hp) to steer and I also use it on my current 4310 HST although, at 32hp, it exceeds your sub 30 hp range. What do you see as the problem using the brakes to steer on an HST?

Jeff