HST over Geared tractor

JoeinTX · Jan 27, 2010

"It's simple:
If you're MANLY, you get a gear tractor
If you're a Metrosexual or effeminate, you buy a hydro!!

See, not so tough, was it?

Actually, I'm a gear tranny guy and much prefer very simple, robust tractors (such as my 790, a design that goes back at least 20 years) I'm also the only operator of my 790.
If I used the loader more extensively then I do, or had more then one operator, a hydro might be a good choice (although I'd probably go for a reverser transmission instead).

Bottomline is, if you're not experienced with manual transmission either be prepared to learn or go for the hydro...."

Now that's what I'm talkin' about.

But, DPadge nailed it above. Been talked to death.

Safety? It has nothing to do with the machine or the tool..............all about the operator behind it. If you know what you're doing with a tool, then you are safe. If you dont', then you aren't. Pure and simple. A machine will not do anything to you that you do not allow it to do. You know it and it's abilities then you're good. You wank around and get out there and don't know what the **** is going on.............you're gonna hurt something.

I'm a gear tranny guy but I was raised on gears and I know them extremely well. I do also know HST's since my ol' pappy went and got a Kubota HST a few years ago and I've spent time on it. The HST? Great for general stuff and loader work. A true multi-purpose unit. Working in the field (which I did do with it) and actual "HP to the ground" applications? Mooshy. Very "mooshy" even with the tranny lock and a lot of dead feel in the process.

HST's seperate you from the "real" stresses of the tractor. Stick me back on my 8n and I can qoute phrase and verse what we're pulling/using and how much it'll cost. I know the sounds/feels/vibes. On the little 'bota it is truly like driving a modern car with an auto tranny. Take the trip but have no idea what's going on underneath or what it's costing.....

ovrszd · Jan 28, 2010

mostly_gas said:
Not sure what part of Missouri you are

I'm from the God's Country part, Northwest.

My current L4400 is gear drive. Previously I had HST. In my steep timber brush cutting, logging or doing FEL work I prefer HST. It's safer for me in the respect that the combination of steps involved in direction change or start/stop is simplified. Less chance for error. Simple mathematics for me.

I respect everyone's opinions about this and will refrain from blanket statements if I can.

ovrszd · Jan 28, 2010

I think TexasJohn made some very good points. Soundguy sounded like the current political machine in his contradictions.

I think we all need to consider that our uses differ. An example is Soundguys comments about not clutching for hours when running a brush cutter. Here in God's Country I don't have a pasture that can be cut without clutching, regardless of size. After changing direction half a dozen times just to cut a small slice between the trees HST wins every time.

Again I appreciate everyone's input in this discussion. It certainly fires people up!!! We should all expect that other's uses are different than ours which creates the difference in opinion. No right. No wrong.

Soundguy · Jan 28, 2010

ovrszd said:
Soundguy sounded like the current political machine in his contradictions.

eh? that's slightly offensive.. I'm not preaching change, then practicing something else.

I think we all need to consider that our uses differ. An example is Soundguys comments about not clutching for hours when running a brush cutter. Here in God's Country I don't have a pasture that can be cut without clutching, regardless of size. After changing direction half a dozen times just to cut a small slice between the trees HST wins every time.

That was my exact point.. blanket statements are hard to make fit.. since everybody has a different application. Mowing in pancake flat open areas is MUCH different than dodging trees in a dozen small paddocks. There is no 1 best machine or machine type for all occasions.

. It certainly fires people up!!! We should all expect that other's uses are different than ours which creates the difference in opinion. No right. No wrong.

except that you felt the need to compair my opinion with that of a politician??? Good doubletalk there.....

safety is a mental state, not a transmission type.

soundguy

TripleR · Jan 28, 2010

ovrszd said:
I'm from the God's Country part, Northwest.

My current L4400 is gear drive. Previously I had HST. In my steep timber brush cutting, logging or doing FEL work I prefer HST. It's safer for me in the respect that the combination of steps involved in direction change or start/stop is simplified. Less chance for error. Simple mathematics for me.

I respect everyone's opinions about this and will refrain from blanket statements if I can.

NW Missouri really is nice; first job was in KC and rode my motorcycle all up through that area.

I have geared and HST, but my preference is for HST. I will keep my geared tractors, but any new acquisitions will be HST. Different strokes...

jenkinsph · Jan 28, 2010

I like both my gear tractor and my hydro tractors it is great having all three. I agree though that in some ways the hydro is safer to manuever with because it is easier to control.

texasjohn · Jan 28, 2010

LMAOROF

Told you it was sometimes an EXTREMELY emotional/religious topic and ridiculous manhood aspersions have emerged as well

The OP has posted 4 times total on TBN and he'd just learned that there were two different kinds of transmissions. That makes him a newbie. He asked a legitimate question for him. Great! Almost by definition, this means he is highly likely to be using the tractor, as almost all TBNers do, for chores around the place. NOT plowing/planting/haying 100 acre fields. Given the funding, IMHO, an HST is a perfect match for this task and, as an added bonus (IMHO), is safer/easier for a newbie to operate than a gear box. In the environment where a tractor is not going to be operated all day for days on end, the barely lower HST fuel efficiency when using ground engaging equipment is inconsequential.

IMHO, my post had no blanket statements, it said I considered HST safer for many reasons, then listed some of my reasons.

Soundguy, I put you at the opposite end of the experience spectrum from the OP. That is, you are a professional, extremely experienced driver and perhaps even made a living driving many types of equipment since the '50's. As such, any tight spots you got into in younger days have perhaps faded in your memory. Yet, the OP is facing these on his learning curve to becoming an experienced and safe tractor jockey. His reading here on TBN will surely assist him along the way.

nathansv6, IMHO, this thread has exposed everything there is to consider regarding HST vs gear transmissions and could be closed...... I note you haven't posted anything since your first post... hope you are out there watching. I suggest you go to a dealer and move 10 FEL buckets of gravel with both a gear and HST, noting which you feel more comfortable with. If you do not plan, now or ever, to get a FEL, then HST benefits are lessened because you will almost always be going forward.

BEST WISHES, nathansv6,

texasjohn over and out

ovrszd · Jan 28, 2010

texasjohn said:
texasjohn over and out

Think I'll join ya.

WH401 · Jan 28, 2010

I have to agree to all of the points that Sound Guy made, points that are all dependent on the experience of the operator and not of the variant of transmission on the tractor. The point being, it doesn't matter whether you have an HST or a gear driven tractor, your experience in operation is what will make the difference. An HST tractor is just as dangerous as a gear tractor, and a gear tractor is just as safe as an HST, simply put.

Now, I have to say it's pretty interesting to see how so many folks believe that gear tractors are pretty much "unfit" or "unsafe" in a tractor these days. I mean really, what do you think people did 50 - 60 years ago when gear tractors were the only thing available? I guess they weren't able to operate at insanely slow speeds, they weren't able to maneuver into tight confined areas, they weren't able to stop in time, they always tipped over, and they always ran over there "helper" on the ground.

tessiers · Jan 28, 2010

I've got a 41 farmall H thats never killed anyone, I'll bet my John Deere isn't still running in 2073 but the old H just may be. I guess thats got nothing to do with the tranny but a gear is a lot less sensitive to maintenance and has proven itself with me. I only tried a hydro once and it sucks for mowing, my foot gets tired.

Matt_Jr · Jan 28, 2010

When I first aquired my BX24, the first thing I did when I backed it off the trailer was play with the backhoe. I then mowed the grass. After coming off of a geared tractor, the hydro was counter intuitive to me and caused me to push on the forward pedal when I should have hit the brakes. Definately operator error. It caused me to have to fix my rock perimeter in my burn pit the first few times mowing around it. Now it's second nature. I think the safest thing is to get to know your tractor. Use it as often as you can until it becomes an extension of your body. Then it'll be the safest tractor you'll own(so long as you wear you belt and use the ROPS

). As for getting tired of pushing down the pedal.. most hydros have mechanical cruise control that holds the pedal down by pushing a button on the dash. I use it quite often. Never got tired, even while mowing several acres at once.

jenkinsph · Jan 28, 2010

WH401 said:
Experience is the most important when it comes to safety. Look at cars for instance, all the safety features in the world won't keep a person safe if they choose to drive like it's the Daytona 500 and there's 42 other cars in front of them. The same goes for a tractor. If you get an inexperienced operator using a couple thousand pound piece of machinery while operating implements that could make Freddy Kruger's victims look like fine artwork, you could end up with the same end result. An experienced operator using a tractor of 50 or 60 years ago compared to a newbie with one of today's tractors will be much safer over and over again.

That may be true about the experienced operator in a gear tractor compared to a newbie with one of today's tractors. So to prove your point you have to make this comparison?

How about an experienced operator in a gear tractor and an experienced operator in one of today's tractors?

I like my old gear tractor and have restored it to like new condition but I am not going to kid myself about which one is easier to operate and control its movements.

Hematite · Jan 28, 2010

WH401 said:
Experience is the most important when it comes to safety. Look at cars for instance, all the safety features in the world won't keep a person safe if they choose to drive like it's the Daytona 500 and there's 42 other cars in front of them. The same goes for a tractor. If you get an inexperienced operator using a couple thousand pound piece of machinery while operating implements that could make Freddy Kruger's victims look like fine artwork, you could end up with the same end result. An experienced operator using a tractor of 50 or 60 years ago compared to a newbie with one of today's tractors will be much safer over and over again.

So you compare apples to oranges to make exactly what point?

WH401 · Jan 28, 2010

jenkinsph said:
So to prove your point you have to make this comparison?

I believe that's what I typed, do you have a problem with that?

nathansv6 said:
Hi,
I would like to know about the Tractor drive system. I learnt there are HST and Geared transmission. How are they working and which is better economically and which is better by use and which is better in price.
I appreciate for the help.

jenkinsph said:
How about an experienced operator in a gear tractor and an experienced operator in one of today's tractors?

You could compare that, but it's a moot point in the argument since the OP has no experience.

jenkinsph said:
I like my old gear tractor and have restored it to like new condition but I am not going to kid myself about which one is easier to operate and control its movements.

Of course the newer tractors are easier to operate, but that isn't the argument. The argument is about safety, and that whether you have a gear driven tractor or an HST, your only as safe as your experience level.

WH401 · Jan 28, 2010

Hematite said:
So you compare apples to oranges to make exactly what point?

What?, I thought I typed in English?

buck12 · Jan 28, 2010

tessiers said:
I've got a 41 farmall H thats never killed anyone, I'll bet my John Deere isn't still running in 2073 but the old H just may be. I guess thats got nothing to do with the tranny but a gear is a lot less sensitive to maintenance and has proven itself with me. I only tried a hydro once and it sucks for mowing, my foot gets tired.

Yep I don't think any tractor, gun, or other object has ever killed anyone except through human involvement through operation, design, or lack of maintenance.

jenkinsph · Jan 28, 2010

WH401 said:
I believe that's what I typed, do you have a problem with that?

You could compare that, but it's a moot point in the argument since the OP has no experience.

Of course the newer tractors are easier to operate, but that isn't the argument. The argument is about safety, and that whether you have a gear driven tractor or an HST, your only as safe as your experience level.