hp needed for genny?

[dangerdoc]

General question.

Do they make a PTO generator that is designed to run slower that 540?

Out where I live, there are alot of bigger tractors that don't have to run at PTO speed to get adequate power.

I've been reluctant to buy a PTO generator because of the wear on the tractor and the noise it makes at PTO speed.

 

[RonMar]

I'm sure someone else has already responded but NEVER hardware a generator to your breaker panel.

1. You will kill some lineman out trying to repair the lines.
2. You will ruin your generator when the power comes back on.

You need a transfer switch that will guarantee that the line and generator will never connect. Do not DIY, the liability is too high both financially and the risk that you will go to jail for manslaughter. You can find manual transfer switches for about $300.

Have you seen this link? Generator InterLock Kit With an interlocked main-backfeed breaker(only one can physically be on at a time), yes you can wire your generator to your main panel safely...

 

[RFB]

Hi Ron,

I also recently came across this while looking for manual tfer switches.

StormSwitch™ (Manual Transfer Switch)

 

[RonMar]

Hi Ron,

I also recently came across this while looking for manual tfer switches.

StormSwitch™ (Manual Transfer Switch)

Yep, there are a few ways to do this safely, but anything that breaks the line between meter and panel for installation is going to cost quite a lot to install and will most likley require the meter to be pulled and then inspected/re-installed by the utility. And since the switch is in the mainline, it has to be rated to whatever the maximum service capacity is(200-400A), and that is a pretty big and expensive switch to install a 10KW backup generator. The interlock kit is only a little bit more difficult than putting in a new circuit breaker in the main panel. I would guess an electrician could do it in an hour(or less?).

Probably not suitable for a monster generator, but very cost effective for a smaller backup generator to provide basic services in an outtage.

 

[Soundguy]

I've been reluctant to buy a PTO generator because of the wear on the tractor ...

That's a funny one!

A tractor is designed to operate for extended periods at PTO speeds at rated HP. Kinda like saying you bought a pair of walking shoes because you don't want to wear out your car going to work, and the grocery store,. and.. and... etc..

Why own a tractor if you are afraid to use it?

soundguy

 

[daTeacha]

Which brings up the question of how many hours a compact tractor engine can reasonably be expected to run without a major rebuild. I suspect it's less than a big ag tractor or OTR diesel, but does anyone out there in TBN land have any kind of number -- 2000 hours, 4000 hours, what? And yes, we all know that depends on maintainence and such, but there must be some designed in expectation for engine life. Does anyone know what we can expect from our little diesels presuming we give them lots of TLC?

 

[Soundguy]

Just from what i see.. but I consider anything 1K and less to be break in.

I'd expect servicable life from cut's and lower to somewhere at least in the 3k if not 4k range. I see hours inthe 6-8-10-12k range on the larger diesels.

I have 'vintage' gassers making it into the 3k range on 50's technology engines.. that are just now getting some blowby and reduced but quite fine oil pressures.. etc..

Anything new made today that can't match that is 100% junk. ( And I lump whizz-bang lawnmower engines into that category as well.. )

just my 2 cents..

soundguy

 

[JB4310]

That interlock device that Ron linked to is a simple ingenious way to to transfer power source, I found that before, unfortunately my box is in a remote location (further than 10 feet from the entrance) which means my main breaker is on the outside, I haven't gotten a clear answer on whether I could have had another 200 amp breaker on the inside as well when I did the upgrade 5 years ago, but now there's a new code that the main breaker can only be 80 % of the service??? not sure of the particulars exactly, but that's what was told to me by an electrician, that I can't put a 200 amp breaker in my 200 amp panel, if that makes any sense.

I also looked into the 200 amp 2 pole switch (I think that's what it is called), the thing is like $800.00 and is the size of a small refrigerator, way bigger than the quite large 200 amp panel. The only good thing is that I do have enough extra service entrance wire to put in the huge switch next to the panel and having the main breaker outside I can deenergize the service line, making it much easier to pull it out of the panel and swap into the new switch, no need to have the power company involved.

 

[JB4310]

General question.

Do they make a PTO generator that is designed to run slower that 540?

Out where I live, there are alot of bigger tractors that don't have to run at PTO speed to get adequate power.

I've been reluctant to buy a PTO generator because of the wear on the tractor and the noise it makes at PTO speed.

Everyone wants to know the answer to that question related slower rpm speed on the tractor, almost all commercially available Pto generator gear boxes that I've heard of are going to be 540 rpm input, even if the genny spins at 1800 for 4 pole heads or 3600 rpm for the 2 pole heads.

One way is with a 2 speed pto, 1000 rpm pto output on the tractor, but guessing by what I've learned lately on the subject that would probably take twice the normal HP rating of 2 hp/KW to work, and maybe not even then, One guy has a three speed pto and he said at 750 rpm he could pull smaller loads off the gen. but not capacity loads. that to me would be a nice option to have running the tractor lower than normal pto speed for lighter loads.

 

[Soundguy]

Yep.. most tractor hp is made at 'rated' rpm.. thus if you do have a 2-3 spd pto.. you could probably pull smaller loads ont he extended speeds fine.. but you won't be pulling full loads.. or probably even half loads.. etc... unless your tractor is significantly larger than your gen head, capability wise. IE.. 50-70-95 hp tractor... 12kw head.. etc..

soundguy

 

[atgreene]

Thanks for all the info guys. Just fired off an email to IMD for a hertz meter. My 15 kw pto unit is not running at the right hertz and hasn't been for some time. I can't seem to find the sweet spot to get everything to run properly.

I backfeed from the garage 200' away through a 100 amp sub panel. The main is always shut off first, as well as the submain feed to the garage. I then go fire up the generator then I go back to the main, confirm it is off and turn on the submain feed from/to the garage.

The generator is currently on a heavy 4 wheeled cart in the garage, soon to be remounted onto a 3pth lift with casters. That will allow me to roll it over into the back of the garage out of the way during use.

I will say, when it was not secured to the cart tightly, when the switch is thrown it will flip over. Done that once or twice.

As for run times, my 4150 Kubota runs the generator fairly easily powering our entire house. I have let it run for 18-20 hours before with no problems and it uses very little fuel. We loose power for more than 2 hours 6-8 times per year and at least 3-4 times per year for 16 hours or more.

When we loose power I tend to let it run overnight and allows everything to function as normal. The only issue I have is the boiler as it is 110v and upon start-up it will make the tractor stumble slightly. All the 220 stuff (18,000 btu a/c, water pump) is a breeze for it. I usually shut down the oil burner anyway during gen operations and run my wood boiler, so that is not a big issue.

Thanks for all the info!

 

[John_Mc]

I backfeed from the garage 200' away through a 100 amp sub panel. The main is always shut off first, as well as the submain feed to the garage. I then go fire up the generator then I go back to the main, confirm it is off and turn on the submain feed from/to the garage.

You power company is going to have a fit about that hook-up, if they find out about it. They want something that makes it physically impossible to connect the generator without first disconnecting the main -- typically a mechanically interlocked set of breakers or disconnects, or the electronic equivalent. This may be tougher to accomplish if you are using the existing subpanel feeding your garage, rather than a dedicated line to the generator

The statement "I always check/double-check" is not going to cut it with the power company. I do hope you are the only one using this, and that no one else would attempt it if you were not around. While you may be quite safe with the set-up, you can probably understand why a line worker would not be too nuts about this. They're trusting their life to the memory/reliability of every person who has such a set-up... and they have no idea who those people are, or where they are.

Having said the above, in an emergency, you do what you gotta do. I helped a neighbor with a newborn child during a winter power outage by arranging a similar set-up.

John Mc

 

[daTeacha]

Along those same lines, the only thing my generator wiring and the normal wiring have in common is the water pump. I simply ran a spartan set of extra circuits for use with the generator when I did some remodeling. The water pump is fed via a manual transfer switch from the main or the generator, but it is not possible to overlap. It's just a simple mechanical linkage between two breakers, mounted in it's own side panel.

 

[atgreene]

I need to order one of those interlocks. I had an electrician who was going to wire in an auto swap panel to for the generator, but he never came through. I am the only one using it and have friends who work in the area as linemen, so it's always in my mind.

With the FD we have seen some backfeed situations, but when we have the gen was always stumbling and dying to the point that you could tell it was doing something wrong. Not that a brief mistake like that wouldn't kill someone, but it isn't something most genertors can sustain for more than a few seconds.

For $179(?), that rig looks like a good insurance policy.

 

[daTeacha]

The mechanical one is just a simple piece or two of steel linking the toggle of the breakers together. My box and breakers far exceeded the cost of transfer switch -- it was on the small side of $10.

 

[dangerdoc]

That's a funny one!

A tractor is designed to operate for extended periods at PTO speeds at rated HP. Kinda like saying you bought a pair of walking shoes because you don't want to wear out your car going to work, and the grocery store,. and.. and... etc..

Why own a tractor if you are afraid to use it?

soundguy

How about this, I don't want to try sleeping with the tractor running at PTO speed next to my bedroom window.

Also, I would prefer to burn less fuel and spend less on maintanence.

I'm not afraid of using a tractor, I've worn out two doing tractor work, I'd prefer not to wear out the third using it as a generator if I can help it.

I'm assuming that since you decided to make fun of the question rather than answer it, you don't actually have an answer.

 

[Builder]

I'm sure someone else has already responded but NEVER hardware a generator to your breaker panel.

1. You will kill some lineman out trying to repair the lines.
2. You will ruin your generator when the power comes back on.

You need a transfer switch that will guarantee that the line and generator will never connect. Do not DIY, the liability is too high both financially and the risk that you will go to jail for manslaughter. You can find manual transfer switches for about $300.

Yes, I'm fully aware of that. Thanks. I was just trying to save typing out the entire wiring procedure for a b/u generator to ask a simple quaestion about hving the tractor PTO driveshaft run through the garage wall.

 

[dangerdoc]

Yes, I'm fully aware of that. Thanks. I was just trying to save typing out the entire wiring procedure for a b/u generator to ask a simple quaestion about hving the tractor PTO driveshaft run through the garage wall.

Sorry, I didn't intend to step on anybody's toes in particular. Just scares me a little, my father was a lineman.

 

[Builder]

Sorry, I didn't intend to step on anybody's toes in particular. Just scares me a little, my father was a lineman.

No problem. I had a real "genius" for a friend that wires a portable gen right into a 220 dryer outlet on his panel when he has a power failure.

I don't talk to him anymore. Talk about irresponsible.