How to rig a home made compactor?

[Richard]

Maybe I should have said vibrator...

Scenario: Been laying down flagstone. As it has been put down, I've been adding sand as mortar between the stones. It's irregular shaped stones so some of my gaps are very narrow (like 1/8") and some areas are much larger, simply depending on the lay of the stones.

Found out about polymeric sand

Polymeric Sand

Seems this stuff is made to be swept into the grout lines, compacted via using a vibrator/compactor and then you dampen it and it will harden up.

This sounds perfect for our situation....except.... I don't have and don't really want to rent a compactor again.

So.... how might something be fabricated that could be used to help vibrate the stones and let this stuff settle between them?

Some items I have on hand that come to my mind are:

1. compressor
2. chisel gun for compressor (could I hammer the chisel into a rubber pad or something that is sitting on a stone to help settle the sand?)
3. Other items for compressor, impact gun, grinder, 12" linear sander (4" wide and 12" long, sands/vibrates forward/backward)
4. Various power tools (circular saw, sawzall, jigsaw, drills, right angle drill, grinder, chainsaw, backpack blower, string trimmer)


I know the 'right' answer might be to rent a compactor/vibrator but.... I really really reall reallyyyyyyyyyyyyyy don't want to deal with that if I can make something else work that I have on hand.

surely the creative mindset here can some up with something that might work for me?

Right now, (prior to wife discovering this polymeric sand exists) I've been simply using water to help get the grout sand to settle. Adding more sand after it settles down. This polymeric sand however, seems to preclude me using water as a tool to help it settle.

I was thinking of some kind of wooden platform, perhaps a rubber platform, set upon the joint(s) and trying to somehow use the force of the air chisel gun to help the sand settle. Not wanting to chisel anything like the stones, I was thinking I might need a second layer on top of the wood to help absorbe the chisel action yet allow the secondary force of the vibrations to carry through to the rocks.

Thoughts?

 

[Casco1]

I have a project that will take most of next summer and I would need to rent a compactor two or three times at $230 - $275 per week. I spent a few months on Craig's list and found a Wacker 1550 in great shape for sale and paid $650 for it. After buying it I contacted several landscapers and pool companies and found one who agreed to buy it from me for $500 when I'm through. Now I have a machine at my disposal when I need it. Luck was definitely involved
The same thing might work for you.

 

[PILOON]

Make one!

Sandwich some 3/4" plywood to form ,say 16 X 24 X 2 1/4 thick base.
Glue and bolt together.
Mount 2 pillow bearings maybe 6-8" apart with an 'unbalanced' weight in the center and terminate with a pulley at one end.
Mount the largest pulley that will fit on the shaft (perhaps even blocks to raise the pillow bearings) and drive this 'unbalanced shaft & weight' with a 1750RPM 1/2 hp electric motor.
You might even want to use a second pillow block setup to furthur reduce the unbalanced shaft RPM's as you really want the unbalanced weight to rotate real slow.

Crude, will wear out the ply fairly fast but will do the job, but then you could always add some steel flat plate stock to the bottom as a wear plate.

Total, some plywood, couple of shafts, 4 pillow block bearings and 3 pullies.
Presuming you 'borrow' an electric motor from one of your power tools for the duration.
For a handle, use an old lawn mower handle.

Have fun!

After all, what I describe is basically all a vibrating plate is except factory made and fancy.

 

[Scooby074]

id just keep my eyes out for a used one. You can always get what you paid for it.

Probably , id just rent one. Sometimes you just need the right tool for the job. With the cost of materials you have in this project, the rental of the correct tamper will be minor.Last time i rented one i think it was only round $100 for the weekend.

 

[GE222]

Now is the time! With the current economic situation, used equipment $$ are at an all time low.

I would look for a used one. Chances are you can probably sell it for almost as much as you paid for it.

 

[GT2]

Now is the time! With the current economic situation, used equipment $$ are at an all time low.

I would look for a used one. Chances are you can probably sell it for almost as much as you paid for it.

I'm sure it varys from place to place, but in my area plate compactors are at a premium.
I've been looking for a year now and in general the prices are quite high.
Every time I see one in my price range I'm ether a day late or a dollar short!

 

[Greg9504]

Typically you DO NOT vibrate flag stone. Depending on the thickness and size, most likely you'll crack it. Tamping is meant for small pavers that you set "high", then compact to grade. You use the vibrator to help get the sand between the joints, since in the case of pavers the joints are so small.

Here are some pictures of a small flag stone path that I helped a friend do. We used polymeric sand for the joints. All I did was hand push it into the joints (with a dowel or brick mortar tool), sweep it off the stone! (or it will stain it), then wet per directions. Make sure you purchase polymeric sand intended for larger joints and you should be all set.

Forgot to add - I'm in Ottawa Canada, the walkway has stood up to a few winters without any problems. So as long as you have a good base and follow the directions on using the polymeric sand I think you should be good.

 

[CurlyDave]

I agree with Greg, do not vibrate the flagstones -- to much chance of cracking them.

Just tamp the polymeric sand into the cracks by hand with an appropriate-shaped tool.

* * * * * * *

I have a plate compactor I got from HF a few years ago. Wait until it goes on sale and then use a 20% off coupon and it will end up costing about $400.

Mine was even better, since I bought the service contract and when the starter cord broke HF could only find two outfits in my state who would work on a plate compactor, both more than 300 miles away. I pointed out to their legal department that the ads for the service contract claimed "more than 2000 service centers nationwide", which implied an average of 40 or so per state. They bought the service contract back from me for ~$500 and I fixed the cord myself.

 

[MikeD74T]

Make one! ... Mount 2 pillow bearings maybe 6-8" apart with an 'unbalanced' weight in the center and terminate with a pulley at one end. ... quote]

Crank shaft & block from lawnmower/snowblower engine with piston & rod removed makes a fine unbalanced weight with bearings & mounting base with bolt holes. Use tywrap on the journal for an oil slinger. Made a power screed for concrete with a vertical shaft motor. Works great. MikeD74T

 

[GT2]

Make one! ... Mount 2 pillow bearings maybe 6-8" apart with an 'unbalanced' weight in the center and terminate with a pulley at one end. ... quote]

Crank shaft & block from lawnmower/snowblower engine with piston & rod removed makes a fine unbalanced weight with bearings & mounting base with bolt holes. Use tywrap on the journal for an oil slinger. Made a power screed for concrete with a vertical shaft motor. Works great. MikeD74T

Interesting Idea!

 

[Richard]

I agree with Greg, do not vibrate the flagstones -- to much chance of cracking them.

Just tamp the polymeric sand into the cracks by hand with an appropriate-shaped tool.

You guys are killing me!! Since this is being typed and you can't hear my (smiling) tone inflections let me suggest:

1. I'm specifically NOT talking about an industrial type vibrator, I'm talking about fabricating something... like a 1x10 maybe 20" long... somehow attach a slab of rubber to the bottom, maybe use a section of old tire?

Then with this against the joints, use my impact chisel or large 12" back/forth sander to help transmit the vibrations through the rubber pad to the stones. I am specifically trying to avoid a commercial vibrator for umpteen other reasons (don't want to pay delivery, can't use my car, don't want to lug it around, heck...don't want to pay for it!)

2. By hand? lolllllllllllllllllll You gotta be in cahoots with my wife, trying to do me in??? I can probably assure you right now that there is no way I'm going to do the walkway and the back patio by hand. (of course, the INSTANT I make this proclamation, the camera will fast forward in time to see me sitting there with my little spoon tool.... quietly compressing the stuff in the joints by hand )

Seriously though.... for the amount of joints I have.... that's what I'm trying to get away from. Tis why I was thinking of making a vibrating tool.

3. I could see where a commercial vibrator *might* crack a flagstone. Or perhaps, cleve might be a better word since they seem to be layered?? My last 4 tons that I bought are very different than the original stones I put down. They are less layered and more uniform in their internal construction. I would remain 99.9999999999999992374932729847% sure (yes, I rounded up to make it simple ) that I could take a commercial vibrator over those and they'd be fine. Heck...with a good substrate under them, I'm about as sure I could drive my industrial backhoe over them and they'd be fine. They do not have the layers that many of my others have.

Be it as it may... I got a kick out of the idea of compressing each joint by hand. Actually.... truth be told.... I had a brief moment of deep pause because if my home made vibrator idea doesn't work (and it probably wont) then doing it all by hand has already crossed my mind as a probability.

I just wish the wife would let this settle over the winter and allow me to do it next spring rather than rush out in November to do it while my teeth are chattering.

 

[Wheatland KB]

Crank shaft & block from lawnmower/snowblower engine with piston & rod removed makes a fine unbalanced weight with bearings & mounting base with bolt holes. Use tywrap on the journal for an oil slinger. Made a power screed for concrete with a vertical shaft motor. Works great. MikeD74T

Thanks MikeD74T. I love this idea and the wife will thank you for helping me to get rid of at least one of the old briggs engines that I just can't junk.

Oh..and Richard thanks for rounding that probability. I think you will be able to do something with the air hammer. Even if what you devise breaks 3 times and you have to repair it...no worries as long as its fairly simple.

 

[Greg9504]

1. I'm specifically NOT talking about an industrial type vibrator, I'm talking about fabricating something

You sure?

This sounds perfect for our situation....except.... I don't have and don't really want to rent a compactor again.
....
So.... how might something be fabricated that could be used to help vibrate the stones and let this stuff settle between them?

I know the 'right' answer might be to rent a compactor/vibrator but....

That certainly sounds like you were talking about a compactor.

2. By hand? lolllllllllllllllllll

Well your current method sounds no less labour intensive and no where in your post did you bother to tell us how large an area you are working on. Even in your second post your only hint is that you had 4 tons delivered, (two pallets worth?).

Right now, (prior to wife discovering this polymeric sand exists) I've been simply using water to help get the grout sand to settle. Adding more sand after it settles down.

. I would remain 99.9999999999999992374932729847% sure (yes, I rounded up to make it simple ) that I could take a commercial vibrator over those and they'd be fine.

Given your confidence, you can rent a small compactor for less than $50/day, and you'll only need it for a few hours at most. The handles fold or come off and you can put it right in the trunk of your car. Or you can screw around with an air hammer... how that method is any less work than hand working the few joints that require work after sweeping it in is lost on me.

Heck...with a good substrate under them, I'm about as sure I could drive my industrial backhoe over them and they'd be fine

FWIW your backhoe puts at most 40 PSI on the stone (whatever the tires are inflated to), the compactor is a shock load. Not the same thing.

They do not have the layers that many of my others have.

Layered stone is actually harder to break (perpendicular to the layers) than a homogeneous stone. Think laminated.