Buying Advice How to negotiate

[joshuabardwell]

Keep that close and if asked "say" that you will do personal financing and leave it at that. Negotiate for a price you are happy with and then use your cash as the final negotiating piece. Cash talks loudest at the end. Good luck

What does the dealer care if you are personal finance vs. cash? Either way he gets a check for the full amount.

EDIT: I didn't mean to sound short or disagreeable here. I was typing on my phone. It's a sincere question.

 

[joshuabardwell]

I can see how the top link would be faster, but never used one, and am wondering how much it would be worth. I'm guessing the cost of the top link would be over $1000.

For the top link, it is relatively easy and cheap to buy an aftermarket one, and relatively easy to swap it out. Just pull some pins, take off the old one, put on the new one. In fact, you may find that aftermarket ones, such as those sold by W.R. Long here on TBN, are a better buy than what your dealer offers. So if I was in your shoes, I would feel comfortable holding off on the hydraulic top link if I wasn't sure. But the consensus on TBN, by far, is that you should settle on the number of remotes you're going to want when you buy the tractor, because adding them afterwards is much more expensive. As far as I can tell, this is because adding the remotes involves a lot of dealer-specific parts and labor, at least if you want your remotes to look like an integrated part of your tractor, versus a big bank of valves sitting on your fender or something (not that there's anything wrong with that). The dealer is usually willing to cut you a deal on labor installing the remotes, if it helps move the tractor, but once the tractor is out the door, it's full labor cost and thank you very much for your purchase, sir!

How many remotes you need depends on what you do. I have seen people on TBN say they absolutely could not live without as many as four remotes. For example, with a box blade with hydraulic rippers and hydraulic top/side link, you're at three spools. With a grader blade with hydraulic top/side link and hydraulic tilt/swing, that's four spools. Some people like to control a grapple on their FEL by running a hydraulic line from a rear remote up to the front of the tractor; if you do that, that's an additional spool that will be tied up whenever the grapple is on the tractor. As others have pointed out, if you're going to run a batwing, two is the minimum, but three would allow you to raise/lower the wings separately for finer control. On the other hand, if you never did box/grader blading and only ever wanted to run a wood splitter off your 3ph, a single remote would probably satisfy. The bottom line is that the "right" number of rear remotes depends entirely on what you intend to do with the tractor. More remotes opens up more options for convenience, comfort, and efficiency of work. And you will always be able to think of one more thing you could use a remote for, so if you buy two, within a few years, you may wish you had three.

Getting back to the hydraulic top link, I think whether you are going to want it will depend a lot on how much work you do with ground-engaging implements like grader blade, box blade, and so forth. Being able to change the aggressiveness of the cutting edge on the fly via a hydraulic top link is a huge boon. It really speeds up work. For me, I wouldn't benefit as much from being able to change the tilt on the fly, but I have heard others say that they'd take a hydraulic side over a hydraulic top any day. A hydraulic top link is also nice if you ever have three-point pallet forks or hay spear, because it allows you to angle them and keep them level as the hitch goes up and down--but with the loader on your tractor, that's probably not a use case you're worried about. On the other hand, if most of my work was mowing, well, I never adjust the top link on the mower once I have it set level, so hydraulic top wouldn't really help me there.

 

[CesumPec]

What does the dealer care if you are personal finance vs. cash? Either way he gets a check for the full amount.

EDIT: I didn't mean to sound short or disagreeable here. I was typing on my phone. It's a sincere question.

Kubota has a 0% finance deal. But nothing is free, so the cost of financing is built into the tractor price. They give you a $1000 discount if you don't take their financing.

 

[aczlan]

One other thing to think of (if you plan on selling this tractor down the road) is that more remotes is a good selling point.

Aaron Z

 

[CesumPec]

Joshua - that was EXTREMELY informative. I know I need one remote so I'll probably get two. Probably the most hours will be mowing, but I will have a lot of disking and grading as well. Neither the disk, grader, or box blade I've been using have hydraulic adjustments, so maybe I don't know what I'm missing. I'm sure i could have used an adjustable blade when trying to level new pasture after pulling stumps. But the little tractor I was using was not up to the task so everything was VERY time consuming and difficult.

 

[joshuabardwell]

Kubota has a 0% finance deal. But nothing is free, so the cost of financing is built into the tractor price. They give you a $1000 discount if you don't take their financing.

I may be confused. When you said, "personal finance," I thought you meant, like you got your own loan from a credit union. I think I see what you mean now.

 

[joshuabardwell]

Joshua - that was EXTREMELY informative. I know I need one remote so I'll probably get two.

I didn't want to assume that my experience was the same as everybody else's, but IMO two is the sweet spot for number of remotes. It allows you to have hydraulic top link and one other accessory, be that a grapple on the FEL or a side link or hydraulic rippers on a box blade. Three and four-spool use cases are more rare, and are (IMO) reserved for the really big tractors doing really big work (like huge batwings), or for people who have more money than I do--for example, it would be super neat to have a four-way grader blade with everything hydraulic, but there's no way it'd be worth the cost to me to have that. The other reason I like two remotes is that my tractor comes with knock-outs in the operator's station for two remote levers, so if I put more than two, I'd have to find somewhere to mount the spools/levers, and that wouldn't look as spiffy. I know... it's shallow, but what can I say?

 

[murphy1244]

I have two remotes on my Kioti DK 40. I use one for Top link and other for Grapple.

 

[CesumPec]

OK, I've just reread the thread and made notes. Will call 3 nearest dealers, follow up with emailed request for bid as speced:

M7040 2012 model (doesn't have EGR but the 2013 does)
FEL with 3rd function remote & 72" Quick Attach bucket
Grill guard
air seat
radio/CD
2 rear remotes
rear wiper
filled tires
insurance

items still to clarify -

drawbar clevis (do you suggest aftermarket or at purchase)
80 AMP alternator (was listed as an option and I will ask the salesman why I would care)
defogger (I think I should get this. Would be tough on a cold morning if the tractor windows fog as bad as a car does)
hooks on bucket (If someone can post a photo of a good set up would be much appreciated)

Many thanks for all your help.

 

[aczlan]

drawbar clevis (do you suggest aftermarket or at purchase)

Buy aftermarket if they want more than $15-20ish for a 3/4" pin one or $20-30ish for a 1" pin one.

80 AMP alternator (was listed as an option and I will ask the salesman why I would care)

Will give you more power to run lights, an inverter, the defogger while running lights, etc.

defogger (I think I should get this. Would be tough on a cold morning if the tractor windows fog as bad as a car does)

Yep

hooks on bucket (If someone can post a photo of a good set up would be much appreciated)

With hooks, you can get either a "grab hook" or a "slip hook" A grab hook will lock onto a link of chain and not let it move. A slip hook will let it slide through.
Many people put in a slip hook for the center hook.
Generally, people will use grab hooks for the outer hooks. There are 2 schools of thought on the outer hooks:
1. Put them in line with the bucket rams, this way you want "rack" the bucket (ie: twist it along its "wide" dimension) by using just one hook with a heavy load
2. Put them on the outer corners, this way you risk "racking" the bucket but if you use both you can in some cases get a better grab with chains that are more separated.

Some people will also mount a 2" receiver to the middle of the bucket to put in a hitch to allow moving trailers more easily.

Aaron Z

 

[joshuabardwell]

80 AMP alternator (was listed as an option and I will ask the salesman why I would care)
hooks on bucket (If someone can post a photo of a good set up would be much appreciated)

The bigger alternator is, in my experience (reading TBN, that is) mainly used to run additional lights. This is less of an issue now that there are high-quality LED lights available for a reasonable cost, since LED lights have much lower amp draw per lumen than incandescent. Still, you might consider what a typical running current draw is for your tractor (headlights, radio, any other electrics--ask the dealer) and then look at how many amps in reserve that leaves you on the stock alternator. A good, bright LED light might only pull 1-2 amps, so if you had two forward-facing and two rear-facing, that'd only be 4-8 amps total. Chances are that the factory alternator has enough spare capacity to supply this, but some people don't like running on the ragged edge. Also, some people have more demanding electrical accessories that they plan to run, such as sprayer pumps.

With regard to bucket hooks, there are more threads on TBN than you can shake a stick at. Here's a link. Your dealer probably does this alteration all the time and, unless you have a welding shop you particularly want to use, you'll probably get a better price from him than anywhere else, just because you won't have to transport the tractor or have a welder pay a house call. It is generally recommended to get 5/16" grab hooks, because these will grab chain from 1/4" up to 3/8", which covers the most commonly used sizes for utility tractors. If you think you'll be using different sizes of chain, take that into account. Also, be sure that the dealer welds on the hooks in line with the loader arms, and not outside of the loader arms. This is something that the dealer should already know, but I know of one case here on TBN where dealer-installed hooks were installed at the very outside of the bucket. The dealer will also probably be able to advise you whether it will be necessary to reinforce the top of the bucket with angle iron or something similar.

A common setup is to put grab hooks at the outside and a slip-hook in the center. The chain can then be run through the center slip-hook and affixed to one of the outer grab hooks if one wants a single point of pull. Alternatively, some folks like to put a 2" receiver tube on the center of the bucket. This allows moving trailers with the bucket (as long as you have a ball mount with sufficient drop to allow you to get it under the coupler). Accessories like a clevis can be mounted to a 2" tube and put on the center of the bucket, or you can even put a vice or other such thing there for field work. Since you have a QA bucket specced, it may be less desirable to have your bucket do everything, since it will be easier for you to drop the bucket and pick up a trailer hitch mover, for example. For those of us with pin-on buckets, it's desirable to change implements as little as possible.

 

[SanDucerro]

radio/CD

I know you meant to say MP3 player... Those CD's don't play well off-road.

 

[CesumPec]

I know you meant to say MP3 player... Those CD's don't play well off-road.

I had a portable CD player i carried in the backhoe and managed to pull stumps day after day while listening to all sorts of interesting audio books. But that player committed suicide one day by jumping out of my lap and under the wheels of the LBH. I tried replacing the player but couldn't find one that could take the vibrations, so I broke down and got instructions from my daughter on how to use an Ipod. For the last 2 weeks I've caught up to the 2000s but I prefer the 90s. I'm hoping the radio/CD/MP3 that comes in the Kubota cab is built to take farm life.

 

[CesumPec]

I walked into a Kubota dealership yesterday. The salesman didn't say hi, may I help you, what's your name, but just kept his face buried in a computer as i stood in front of his desk. A little frustrated, I started the convo with, "How would you like to sell that M7040 over there?"

Him: Let me type up this last order and I'll be with you in a few minutes.

I probably should have walked out right then and there, but i wanted a quote so I pressed on. Eventually he looks up and says the tractor is $43xxx.

Me: Can we price it out with the options I need?

Lots of problems with the discussion but a few highlights are,

Me: Why would I need an 80 amp alternator?
Him: How do I know what your needs are?
...
Me: Should I get the defogger?
Him: I can't tell you what you should do.
Me: I've never had a cab on a tractor, do I need the defogger?
Him: I can price it out anyway you want it.

I eventually got a quote of ~$44K, said thank you very much, and headed for the door. He stopped me long enough to finally introduce himself as the dealership owner's son. This wasn't some dumb kid, he's easily into his late 40s.

I got my data point, but I will NOT buy from that dealership.

 

[J F]

Isn't it amazing? :duh:

 

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CesumPec,
Cash talks loudest at the end. Good luck

idaho2

now a days, it may not. Many times a dealer may get a percentage of the financing (1% or less). If so he makes more money with the financing.

 

[arrow]

Second Q - how do i go about negotiating with the dealer? I'm pretty good at car buying, but I have so much more info then.

Find the list on the tractor. 1. Should be on their website or ask the dealership. 2. Figure the dealership has a 25% spread between invoice and msrp. Delivery charges might be as high as $750 if the factory and dealership are far apart. Hypothetically if the tractor lists for 50K, it cost the dealership 37.5K plus freight. Knowing this, arrive at a fair price with your additions that you are willing to pay. Go in and tell the dealer what you want to do.