Tractor Sizing How important is rear diff lock on CUT?

[LD1]

No worries fellas. When you climb out of your tractor simulators I'll buy ya a beer.

Not sure I've ever had any real experience where traction is equal. One tire always seems to spin before the other. This equal traction sounds more in theory than real life. If ya got the engine turning only 1 wheel, that's 1wd in my book. But you can debate all u want.

More people on this thread seem to know the value of a locker from experience.

Flame on.

No simulator. Not sure what the h3ll that means. I am speaking from my experience. Never said traction was equal either. But near equal. If it is near equal and takes a ton of torque to make one tire spin, that means the other tire is receiving a ton of torque also.

I am not denying the usefulness of a locker in certain situations. I am stating MY opinions and MY preferences. The locker does me little good. My split brakes are more useful.

 

[DavesTractor]

On my LS gear drive tractor, I have gotten stuck crossing ditches at an angle a couple of times due to getting one front and one rear off the ground at the same time. Hit the Diff lock and it pulled right out, other wise I would have had to shove myself out with the FEL which would have torn up the ground a bit.
That is a somewhat funny situation though, sitting with a ditch under the tractor and two wheels off the ground and just spinning away.

Exactly. Smallish tractors do not have much axle articulation, and it is easy to do as you have described above. You can sit in one place spinning when going over a small ditch if you hit it just wrong.

On our Deutz-Fahr tractors, we have front and back lockers....if that doesn't get you out, you shouldn't have been there in the first place.

 

[onelostdogg]

Wow! I Took physics in college too! Got my answer way Long ago. Not buying anything without rear differential lock. Thanks everybody.

 

[GManBart]

No simulator. Not sure what the h3ll that means. I am speaking from my experience. Never said traction was equal either. But near equal. If it is near equal and takes a ton of torque to make one tire spin, that means the other tire is receiving a ton of torque also.

I am not denying the usefulness of a locker in certain situations. I am stating MY opinions and MY preferences. The locker does me little good. My split brakes are more useful.

He means much of this is theory...i.e. like a simulator. Why? Because you're making up fictional conditions like "near equal" traction which isn't something you can know, and is only going to be true sometimes. That turns it into a theoretical argument....a simulation.

Yes, dragging a split brake will often get the job done, but it won't always get the job done, and simply isn't as effective at putting power to the ground as a locked differential. A diff lock won't help when you're turning, so split brakes are still a handy option.

When I've needed to use my diff lock, it was usually because traction wasn't anywhere near equal. It was also a heck of a lot easier to just step on the diff lock and not have to stop, disconnect the brake pedals, and then drag a brake while trying to get unstuck.

I'm not sure why folks are arguing over this....having both is best. Having just one or the other will always leave situations where you don't have the best tool for the job...even if you can still suffer by without it.

 

[GManBart]

Guess some folks have never had just one wheel on a section of ice, or in a muddy spot, or on something else slick, or be up in the air, while the other was planted firmly on a decent surface...

 

[k0ua]

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..having both is best. Having just one or the other will always leave situations where you don't have the best tool for the job...even if you can still suffer by without it.

I could agree with that, Both IS best. But if I had to give one up, I would give up the diffy lock, and retain the split brakes. One reason is they can be used to slew the tractor sideways a bit and sometimes that will get you to better drier ground. But if using a hydrostatic drive tractor with the go pedal and split brakes on the same side, I think most people are going to go for the locker pedal. But on my tractor the split brakes are on the left, and the hydrostatic pedals are on the right, best of both worlds. IMO. of course as always YMMV.

 

[LD1]

I am not saying a d-loc isn't nice to have. In "my" real world of experience, I find that it doesn't do any good more often than it helps. Meaning traction is similar enough, that the little help it provides still isn't enough to do the job.

If I cannot drag the log, most of the time the locker don't help. If I am buried in the muck, most of the time the locker don't help. If I am trying to push a pile of dirt back in the trench and can't, most of the time the locker don't help.

Most of the time meaning probably 80%.

Not having a locker would not be a deal breaker for me as It don't help me as much as some of you claim.

Not having split brakes would be a deal breaker though.

That's all I'm saying. I ain't claiming there is no benefit of a locker. I just don't see the huge benefits that some of you tout

 

[ZR900MAN]

I tell you what you non-lock knuckleheads....lets take two identical tractors....hook them each to an equal size disk and put them side by side in a long field with slippery conditions....one tractor uses the posi and one does not....I put all my money on the posi tractor winning that by a lot....if you can't see that then you have not spent much time on a real tractor doing any real world work

 

[TJP89]

I am not saying a d-loc isn't nice to have. In "my" real world of experience, I find that it doesn't do any good more often than it helps. Meaning traction is similar enough, that the little help it provides still isn't enough to do the job.

If I cannot drag the log, most of the time the locker don't help. If I am buried in the muck, most of the time the locker don't help. If I am trying to push a pile of dirt back in the trench and can't, most of the time the locker don't help.

Most of the time meaning probably 80%.

Not having a locker would not be a deal breaker for me as It don't help me as much as some of you claim.

Not having split brakes would be a deal breaker though.

That's all I'm saying. I ain't claiming there is no benefit of a locker. I just don't see the huge benefits that some of you tout

Split brakes ain't gonna help there 80% of the time either.

I find the diff lock useful. I don't need it most of the time, sometimes it doesn't work and I've got to find a different way. But I've been convinced of the necessity for having one to use if I need it. This winter there was 8 to 10 in of snow down one morning, and I had to get to work. On the CK at 6am in the dark and 0 degree weather. Coming down the back 2-track in LO, 4WD in reverse with rear blade. I have this nasty little uphill with a curve on it, and the tractor just started sliding and slipping all over. I put the diff lock on, and made it through. Without the diff lock I would have been stuck, with it I made it. Any tractor I ever buy will have a differential lock.

 

[RedNeckGeek]

I tell you what you non-lock knuckleheads....lets take two identical tractors....hook them each to an equal size disk and put them side by side in a long field with slippery conditions....one tractor uses the posi and one does not....I put all my money on the posi tractor winning that by a lot....if you can't see that then you have not spent much time on a real tractor doing any real world work

I'll go you one better: Hitch those two tractors tail-to-tail and see which one makes it to their end of the field first. I bet it's the one using the locker...

 

[LD1]

Split brakes ain't gonna help there 80% of the time either.

Never said it would.

I use split brakes in place of a locker for those odd times. Like only one tire hung up (or in the air). And it works just as well as a locker. But I use brakes far more to keep the tractor in a straight line when rear blading on an angle. A locker wont do that.

I'll go you one better: Hitch those two tractors tail-to-tail and see which one makes it to their end of the field first. I bet it's the one using the locker...

I am betting it will be a stale mate. Two identical tractors, with even footing and traction (not one tire on ice other on pavement; rather similar between the two rears), and I doubt either one will move the other.

Done it several times with different equipment and vehicles. Most notably, I had a 85 dodge w350 power wagon. 33x12.50 mud tires and posi front AND rear. Chained to my brothers 89 F150 and street treads with open diffs. On a pretty hard packed gravel drive it was a stalemate.

Sure, I could pull alot harder than him. But not hard enough to overcome his dead weight back out of the two depressions he made when spinning tires.

It takes a pretty significant difference in equipment size or weight for it to not be a stalemate in my experience. Just because one may have more drawbar pulling power, doesnt mean its enough can overcome the other.

I think you guys are blowing this out of proportion. I am NOT saying that a locker isnt usefull. I am NOT saying that a locker doesnt increase pulling power. I am saying that in MY experience, the slight increase doesnt help me more times than it does. You guys are making it sound like hitting the locker and getting BOTH tires spinning suddenly increases traction by 2x's. But that just isnt the case in most circumstances. I think most of us here arent running big iron pulling 18' disc's. We are running small CUT's doing a variety of chores.

 

[McREBEL]

I'm not sure why folks are arguing over this....having both is best. Having just one or the other will always leave situations where you don't have the best tool for the job...even if you can still suffer by without it.

The bottom line is ^.

 

[DavesTractor]

No worries fellas. When you climb out of your tractor simulators I'll buy ya a beer.

Not sure I've ever had any real experience where traction is equal. One tire always seems to spin before the other. This equal traction sounds more in theory than real life. If ya got the engine turning only 1 wheel, that's 1wd in my book. But you can debate all u want.

More people on this thread seem to know the value of a locker from experience.

Flame on.

I have lockers front and rear on my Jeep. I can climb up an uneven step on a steep hill with no drama, while the unlocked guys are spinning and struggling. The unlocked guys will often resort to a little more speed to let momentum carry them over a hump, and consequently can get them selves into more trouble and more carnage. The lockers are so much better than open diffs that it is almost as if I am cheating.....

And a Jeep has a lot of axle articulation already, a tractor....not so much. It is when a tire is in the air that lockers are such a big help, and it is easy to lift a tire on a tractor.

Theory aside, a locker will get you out of a bind where an open diff will leave you spooling out the winch cable.

 

[SPYDERLK]

He means much of this is theory...i.e. like a simulator. Why? Because you're making up fictional conditions like "near equal" traction which isn't something you can know, and is only going to be true sometimes. That turns it into a theoretical argument....a simulation.

Yes, dragging a split brake will often get the job done, but it won't always get the job done, and simply isn't as effective at putting power to the ground as a locked differential. A diff lock won't help when you're turning, so split brakes are still a handy option.

When I've needed to use my diff lock, it was usually because traction wasn't anywhere near equal. It was also a heck of a lot easier to just step on the diff lock and not have to stop, disconnect the brake pedals, and then drag a brake while trying to get unstuck.

I'm not sure why folks are arguing over this....having both is best. Having just one or the other will always leave situations where you don't have the best tool for the job...even if you can still suffer by without it.

The bottom line is ^.

No. The "bottom" line under discussion is which of the features offers the most versatile capability. That both is better is a no brainer, whereas distinguishing which is capable of getting you through more situations requires that you get into lots of situations - so many that you are able to keep your brake pedals unlocked and reliably operate them together or selectively. When you do that you find the split brakes will do anything a rear locker will do, and then some - except getting ALL the power on the ground. Some is used by the applied brake. ... If youre rolling , braking a lesser traction wheel to assure that both wheels are working to their traction limits will get you max thrust but will require more engine power than the locker setup. If you need all your engine power the brakes are going to slow you down and use more fuel while one brake or the other is on. Brakes also wear out -- intermittent use only.

If you need to use one of the features long term it has to be the locker. It also had better be a task with lots of straight lines and not much sideslope.
larry

 

[ZR900MAN]

Can't believe there is 12 pages about a diff lock

 

[GManBart]

Can't believe there is 12 pages about a diff lock

Good thing the OP's question wasn't something like "R1 tires with split brakes versus R4 tires with locking differential, which is more useful?".....

 

[SPYDERLK]

Good thing the OP's question wasn't something like "R1 tires with split brakes versus R4 tires with locking differential, which is more useful?".....

That one has a clear answer.

 

[LD1]

Locker and r4s won't pull as well as r1s with split brakes. Even if you don't use the brakes.

 

[94BULLITT]

Locker and r4s won't pull as well as r1s with split brakes. Even if you don't use the brakes.

What if the tractor with the R4s is bigger

 

[AGRIMAN]

In the days before GPS and Auto-Steer, one trick to planting straight rows was to use the diff lock. Now, when it comes to planting around curves and keeping everything even and looking good is another trick.