How Has Tractor Buying Changed?

[rScotty]

I'm an old time mechanical guy and have been helping friends with machinery purchases for decades now.

Just this morning I was thinking about how the buying questions have changed as much or more than the tractors themselves. It used to be that questions centered around the reliability of some particular model or maybe how easy maintenance was going to be.
Back up 40 or 50 years and the next most common question had to do with what type of fuel was best. There was only one transmission choice at the time, and 4wd was a rumor just beginning to happen in very small tractors. Financing a tractor was rare, insurance was unknown, and dealers were knowledgeable tractor people who sold parts.

Economically, inflation roughly equaled depreciation at the time - so prices were remarkably stable.
In absolute dollars, A 20 year old used machine sold for about 20% less than the original selling price.
Young people usually bought used machines while older folks bought new.

Flash forward 40 or 50 years and financing is common; insurance mandatory.
The age of buyers has also reversed, with younger people buying new while it is the older guys who buy used.

Today the most common question I get is about dealerships. Dealerships have suddenly acquired a whole different type of mysterious importance and I wonder why. Today's dealers tend to be more salesman than mechanics or operators - so it isn稚 anything technical. Parts are as commonly bought online as at a dealership.
So why the concern with the dealership? It puzzles me. After all, this is a tractor, not a child. It's possible that a new owner might want to stop by the dealership to share coffee and chat now and again, but it would be an unusual tractor that ever needed to see the inside of the dealership again.

The second most common question after dealerships are what I call "armchair questions". They are comparing brochure specs, HP, weight, lifting strength, transmission type, and above all the ergonomics of style & comfort. These are the fun questions and lots of fun to debate. Although after all the talking, any real answer is a personal thing - best done by getting on a tractor and trying it out.
Enjoy!
rScotty

 

[smstonypoint]

I think your comments apply to those of us who do not depend on our tractors & equipment to put food on the table.

For commercial crop farmers, time is money -- delays in planting and harvesting reduce yields. If I was a commercial crop farmer, I would only do business with dealers that have parts on hand and who have mechanics who can deal with the complexities of today's machinery.

Steve

 

[Oldoak]

I agree, smstonypoint. There is a huge difference between suburbanites and hobby farmers and the commercial farming community who's livelihood depends on farming. I spend a lot of time in the mid-west and the Dakotas every year and it's unbelievable the amount of inventory those machinery dealers and farm stores carry to accommodate the farmers and ranchers.

 

[Jchonline]

This looks to be a great discussion! I would likely fall into one of the middle of the road crowds with regards to tractor buying. I grew up around a farm. We had one tractor dealership in the town, he sold Belarus. We had an old H Farmall and a Belarus. I don't remember ever going to the dealership, except to purchase the tractor. We fixed everything in the barn. That said the baler was the most sophisticated piece of equipment we owned. Fast forward 30 years and a bunch of suburban living; the wife and I have plans to return to the country. Technology has changed things quite a bit. Tractors are built with conveniences like cars, and some tractor salesmen seem more like car salesmen. I have been around to no less than 8 dealerships for various manufacturers in the past few months. The knowledge and skill of salesmen varies greatly.

Coming from someone that is re-educating themselves about tractors after 30 years, I am looking for certain things from a dealership. So many things we buy these days don't last. Quantity and convenience over quality. Somehow we seem to be ok with having to replace things in a few years. It is less expensive to buy another than to have it repaired. As such I have to remind myself that this is not they way I should be thinking about a $30-70k machine. So when I run across a salesman that seems like he/she came from car sales, I walk away.

I am most nervous about having a good dealer, because of my experience with how often things break down these days. How complex electronics make a simple diesel engine into something we need a computer to diagnose. I want a dealer that understands, responds, and solves, as there is a good chance I won't have the advanced electronics to do so.

On another note, the subcompact and compact tractor market has exploded. Guys like me that grew up on farms now have the chance to mold a suburban lifestyle with some of the farm. Put in a garden, get a horse, etc. That really wasn't something that happened often 30-years ago. The features only on larger tractors have now been shrunk to the subcompacts. As a result we have an entire market segment that is getting into a real tractor (even if it weighs less than a Prius).

Lastly, I want to thank all of you for the help and experience you provide Without you all it would be the salesman and I, which is not a good matchup

 

[smstonypoint]

I spend a lot of time in the mid-west and the Dakotas every year and it's unbelievable the amount of inventory those machinery dealers and farm stores carry to accommodate the farmers and ranchers.

Last year (late summer/early fall), I saw a JD combine that appeared to be in its first season parked in a nearby partially-harvested corn field for nearly a week. That couldn't have been good for the farmer's bottom line.

The combine belonged to one of my county's largest farming operations. Word at the barbershop is that the family had four combines last year -- three new under lease and an older owned model. At one time, the three leased models were down for repairs and only the older model was operable.*

Steve

* I realize that four combines wouldn't be especially noteworthy in some areas, but it is in mine.

Steve

 

[cphilip]

I think this is particularly true of the CUT SCUT buyers. Many are new to tractors in general. And their uses are totally different. I have slowly become one of those. Less farming and more chores and land maintenance. More of my use has slowly become more of a choice than a need.

 

[MHarryE]

With every survey I get from Kubota, I complain about their poor parts availability. I farm with my cousin and nephew. We have a lineup of old Internationals, newer John Deeres, newer New Hollands, and several Kubotas. We each buy equipment separately to keep from losing everything when one goes broke or something like that. I have one piece of Caterpillar equipment, my hydraulic excavator. Being a retired person with farming as my second career, I don't have many years left so I tend to be aggressive when I use my own equipment, especially my Caterpillar mini-excavator which is a lot of fun. Every time I have had a breakdown (mostly track tensioners from operator abuse) Cat has never failed to have my replacement part on hand by 7am the following morning. Kubota - I waited 11 days for a replacement cable for the loader valve on my L5740. That is an example - a low cost replacement part that failed early but took an unacceptable time. Same thing with our Deeres - we've had to wait weeks for some replacement parts. New Holland no different. The CUT I can tolerate down time but the larger farm tractors are down time critical. Caterpillar supplying contractors has, from my experience, understands that down time is $$$ lost to an owner. I thought Deere was the same way but now having experience with them have lost confidence. My nephew and his old Internationals - breakdowns expected so he has collected backups - 15 at last count with 3 broke down longer than one year. We also have experienced slow repair parts availability with our New Hollands - tractors and haying equipment. Unless manufactures can guarantee equipment that will never break down no matter how used, we need better support. If they sell something to us, a replacement parts should be available within one day. (okay, I do admit to a Caterpillar history. My last years I was responsible for a product line. Before we could release for shipment we had to have a 30 day parts supply available for all service parts.)

 

[Industrial Toys]

I just ordered hydraulic cartridges for my mower from Hydraforce. I was totally shocked to hear 18 week delivery!. Apparently Deere and CAT have to wait the same amount of time for their orders of hydraulic components. I just need to cut my grass. Some people need to make a living (and pay for) their equipment.

As far as buying a tractor. It's getting so you have to make an appointment with a salesperson (probably not what they are called anymore) (some kind of associate?) and in trying to do so, will just get VM. Rest assured though, the recording will assure you just how important your call is.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

I very much agree with you that buying has changed, and not in good ways. I have a series of YouTube videos coming out about some of those things. Specifically, too many people doing internet only research and doing comparisons using spreadsheets with numbers they do not understand. Tractor and implement design is beginning to change to push big numbers for your glossy brochure at the expense of common sense engineering. Its not good for the buyer, or the industry. This is why I'd say that a good salesperson from a good dealership is as important as ever.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

Cat has never failed to have my replacement part on hand by 7am the following morning. Kubota - I waited 11 days for a replacement cable for the loader valve on my L5740. That is an example - a low cost replacement part that failed early but took an unacceptable time. Same thing with our Deeres - we've had to wait weeks for some replacement parts. New Holland no different.

There are some industry reasons for this. Some companies bake in the high-cost of next-day delivery service to the dealer into their parts pricing, while Kubota does not. You can get parts that quickly... you just have to ask. Its not the default service level. Some less experienced parts tech's may not know to ask some of these questions. Thats part of why Kubota parts as as a whole quite a bit cheaper than some other makes.

 

[rScotty]

I just ordered hydraulic cartridges for my mower from Hydraforce. I was totally shocked to hear 18 week delivery!. Apparently Deere and CAT have to wait the same amount of time for their orders of hydraulic components. I just need to cut my grass. Some people need to make a living (and pay for) their equipment.

Is there something so special about those hydraulic cartridges that you cannot order something close enough to work from a hydraulic parts supplier?
Or how about this, most farming towns still have a hydraulic shop - often just an innovative guy with a lathe and a stock of basic parts. Like a lot of small business people he's probably sort of tired of wondering if he's going to be bored to death or starve first.

Seems like it would be worth a few hours casting around for a way to cut your non-responsive dealer out of the profit loop. I'm getting as tired as you seem to be with these lazy dealerships. After all, if the dealer really cared about you or his business he could do either of those things himself and do them even easier than you can.
rScotty.

 

[Grateful11]

We've found first hand most sales people, unless they've been in the business for 20-30 years, don't know jack about what they're selling. The district reps seem to know even less no matter the brand.

 

[TheMadOne]

Is there something so special about those hydraulic cartridges that you cannot order something close enough to work from a hydraulic parts supplier?
Or how about this, most farming towns still have a hydraulic shop - often just an innovative guy with a lathe and a stock of basic parts. Like a lot of small business people he's probably sort of tired of wondering if he's going to be bored to death or starve first.

Seems like it would be worth a few hours casting around for a way to cut your non-responsive dealer out of the profit loop. I'm getting as tired as you seem to be with these lazy dealerships. After all, if the dealer really cared about you or his business he could do either of those things himself and do them even easier than you can.
rScotty.

It's comments like this that make me realize how good I have it. There's...at least 4 hydraulic shops I can name in a 20 mile radius.

 

[Industrial Toys]

Jacobson wants around $400 each for the two spool cartridge valves. They speced them with their own seals from Hydraforce. Finally I found similar ones, but with regular seals for around $40.00 each. They are unique to the Hydraforce (4WD) valve block they go into.

 

[rogers259]

Agree that a good sales person is important to a dealership.... however finding a dealer/salesperson that will take the time to work with you is beyond impossible in our experience. My wife and I have been on the hunt for a 50-70hp tractor for several months New/used doesnt matter to us. Of the several dozen dealers we've visited here's how it usually goes. We pull in, walk the lot, look at several tractors, no one approaches us about any of these tractors, we have to wait to talk to a sales person, when we do finally get to talk to one ... we have to pull teeth to get any information out of them ... they act as if we are wasting their time. Usually we end up leaving frustrated that no one seems to care about earning a sale.

I visited two dealers this past weekend, one 2 hrs from us. 5 sales guys watched me pull into the parking lot Sat morning, I checked out the tractors for about 20 minutes before I had to go inside and request a sales person to assist me. Waited for a sales person for another 15 mintues(no one else was on the lot or in the shop). When we finally got out to look at the tractor, a NH t4.75 with a FEL, I asked about what he could tell me about the options on the tractor... i got "Its a 2015 NH 4.75 with a FEL". Again I had to pull teeth to get any kinda info on this thing(which i got very little). I did get to test drive it for about 5 min, at which point with ZERO instruction about the tractor I started to get frustrated with the experience(and my wife wouldnt get on it as she was unsure of everything). Stop the tractor and asked the guy what they were looking to get for it. He points to a tag and says ... well it says XX,XXX so thats what we are asking. I asked if there was any wiggle room in that price, and got a sharp "Nope". At which point he was paged for a phone call and left us. We left, again with nothing.

You can pretty much repeat this experience i described above over and over at just about every dealer we've gone to. I dont get it at all, the lack of service is infuriating! When we bought our Ferris Zero turn z3200 the owner of the shop took an hour and a half with me going over every detail of the mower. Offering suggestions, comparing to other models, etc. The personal service was fantastic and whenever we've gone back for regular service everything has been timely and again personal. I know we arent buying a 150k tractor but still ... Why can't we find this kind of service among tractor dealers?

 

[Tractorable]

Recently, I had a problem with my 1952 Ford 8N and called a local dealer to have it repaired. I was told "sorry, we don't work on the old tractors anymore. Too hard to get parts" LOL!!!

Only a half million 8N's made with the best parts availability of almost any tractor. I'm sure it just wasn't profitable for them.

 

[Jchonline]

Recently, I had a problem with my 1952 Ford 8N and called a local dealer to have it repaired. I was told "sorry, we don't work on the old tractors anymore. Too hard to get parts" LOL!!!

Only a half million 8N's made with the best parts availability of almost any tractor. I'm sure it just wasn't profitable for them.

Sad, if they had offered to help with the 8N, I bet you would have considered a new purchase from them.

 

[Teachu2]

Sad, if they had offered to help with the 8N, I bet you would have considered a new purchase from them.

I'll take that bet.

 

[Industrial Toys]

I'm just surprised they didn't take the time to get you to go fill out an on-line customer satisfaction survey! Maybe win a hat!

Dear Lord! When will this stupidity stop?