How do I raise the 3ph higher?

[SkunkWerX]

It can also be the way each blade is built.

The other measurement to look at would be the height from bottom of your blade (cutting edge) to the C/L of the lower pins.

RedDirt's blade may be "taller" in that respect.

RedDirt, regardless of this problem, I have a simplistic easy way for you to change your cutting angle. Get some washers or spacers. It appears your blade bolts onto it's frame like mine does.

Remove the bottom bolts that hold the blade, and looses the top bolts. Insert spacers or washers in the bottom holes, and retighten everything.
This will effectively make you cutting angle shallower by moving the cutting edge a bit forward with respect to vertical (when it's facing forward).

Alternately, remove the top bolts, insert Washers/spacers there and it will make your ground engaging angle steeper.

I think I said this correctly, but, hopefully you get the drift.

Experiment with what engaging angle you like best, then you can always get the appropriate thickness of flat stock, drill it fore the bolt holes, and use it as a permanent spacer which will provide support all the way across the blade as does the actual bracket now.


If this is confusing, let me know I can explain further.

 

[SkunkWerX]

OOOPS. just noticed, your bottom bolts may be vertical, not horizontal.

This would mean you would need to fabricate a flange for the bottom to extend different bolt holes.

If plowing forward, I think you need to be able move the cutting edge forward. This would require what i described above. Again, a peice of flat stock would do. Determine how far forward the cutting edge needs to go to achieve proper cutting angle, then get some flat stock wide enough, drill holes, and using two sets of bolts, you will be moving the lower portion of the blade forward.

 

[David Cockey]

My understanding is the hitches on the BX1850/BX2350/BX24 is a full Cat 1 hitch and the hitches are the earlier BX tractors are Cat 0 geometry with Cat 1 size pins. The poivot for the upper link on a BX2350 appears to be mounted higher than on the BX23 in the photo. Also the lower arms on the BX2350, etc are such that they line up square with pins at the standard Cat 1 26" spread rather than the 20" Cat 0/1N spread.

The height of the upper link pin at the tractor above the lower arms is as important as the height difference on the attachment.

 

[David Cockey]

On our BX2350 the tractor side upper link pin is about 15" above the pivot for the lower arms.

 

[RedDirt]

Lots to digest since I was here yesterday. Satellite's been down since power outage last night. Then couldn't get signal back no matter what. 1 1/2 hrs phone tech support couldn't fix; then they want $95 for site tech to come out. I say no and trace problem to shixxx wild blue install. Roof snow load caused just enough deflection of dish to almost, but not quite, establish connection. Shoveled snow from dish portion of roof and I'm back. Thanks Wild Blue.

Anyway...

David Cockey,
The distance between my bx23 lower arm pivot and top link, at the tractor, is 15", same as your 2350. CL of lower pins are 10" above ground.

Not sure if my bx23 is Cat0 w/7/8" pins or bone fide Cat1. Year model is 2005. But the blade is hooked up with lower pins turned inward for the 20" drawbar spacing. It looks like the lower arms could easily spread to the standard Cat1 26". Maybe I should try that first and see if it changes anything. It is just set up the way I received it and I have not tried it with pins pointing outward.

ShunkWerxs.
Well I wish my blade was bolted to the frame. It is welded. The entire unit is welded. The only bolts on the whole thing are the cutting edge bolts and the lower pins (probably a cheap blade).

Mundy,
I not sure I see the differences in the blades that you do. I think this may be an illusion due to different top link lengths and perhaps the oblique angles of the two photos. One thing for certain, and you are right, often a very small change of geometry can be greatly exaggerated when extended the distances we are looking at.

What with snow, plowing, and wildblue hassles I never got the chance today to experiment with lowering the top link connection....maybe this week end as well as trying a wider side arm stance. But I did take a few moments for more photos.

This is where I'd like to be the "happy medium" setting of the blade. Note the framing square showing the blade perpendicular to the ground (plumb). At this setting I have 2" threads showing on the top link.





At this top link setting (2" threads) I have 7" total lift.





Here I have tightened up the top link, no threads showing. Note the out-of-perp blade. This blade is 2 1/2" out of plumb. Here the cutting edge is not cutting as well as the "happy Medium" setting





At this top link setting (no threads) I have 16 1/2" total lift.




Onward to experimentation. I'm sure hoping my solution is not too drastic. I've already (just) built two attachments for this implement and a big change of blade or 3PH geometry might alter the usefulness of THEM! ekkk.

 

[Mundy]

I have posted a picture of the differnce.

I added a green dot to your picture at the point the pins attach on SkunkWerx blade. You can see yours are mounted on those tabs or ears.

 

[flusher]

Hi all,

My rear blade has an adjustment pin so I can "tilt" the balde and cut at an angle. I run out of travel on the 3ph when I configure the blade this way. I can't get the blade off of the ground.

What is the best way to get it up in the air? If I shorten the top link I loose the cutting angle on the blade. I have some other ideas but I want to hear yours.

Sorry I don't have a picture. I will take some if needed.

I would try longer lower lift arms. My Kubota B7510HST lift arms are about 26" long. If I need more space between the tractor and an implement or if I need more vertical lift on the implement, I switch to the 35" long arms from my MF-135. So long as the implement is fairly lightweight, like my box blade or my 4-ft rotary mower, the weight of the implement on the longer arms won't overload the 3 pt hydraulics.

 

[RedDirt]

I have posted a picture of the difference.

I added a green dot to your picture at the point the pins attach on SkunkWerx blade. You can see yours are mounted on those tabs or ears.

OK, Now I see! Absolutely correct, the blades have major different mountings! And here I thought I was always good at that "what's different in these two pictures" in the 5th grade!

I see this now as yet another spot to experiment with a different mounting of my blade. Since I can't get my lower pins to mount as ShunkWerX's because the tube is there, maybe if I extent the implement top link connection toward the tractor, putting it in vertical alignment with the lower pins, I'll have a similar configuration (and results).

Thanks for looking so closely and taking time to point it out so even I could understand. Crow tastes good sometimes!

 

[PILOON]

I ran into problems along these lines when I made a 3point boom and had to resolve the issues.

The 3 point arrangement starts as a 'parallagram' and many things affect the geometry.

I would lift my 3 point boom and the far tip would lower but since what I needed to do was have it higher as the intent was ti raise a drag and back into position before 'dragging'.

Do this:
Get 4 strips of wood and tack them together in a parallagram fashion and experiment with the various adjustements by changing the tack locations and you will soon get the hang of it and learn what each 3 point adjustement will accomplish.

As a result when I now raise my 3 point the tractor end of my drag raises about 12" and the rear of the drag lifts the same so I can now back the drag into position and drive away smoothing my gravel to perfection.

 

[RedDirt]

Good suggestion PILOON, Nothing beats a mock-up for understanding how variations in pivot points and attachment points can affect the geometry. I've resorted to mock-ups many times in the past and may well end up here too. While you were posting I was doing a couple of experiments.

Limited success! Not great yet but an improvement.

First I brought the implement top link pivot in line vertically above the implement lower link pins. They were offset 3 1/4"! This is the adjustment Mundy pointed out. With top link adjusted so blade edges were still plumb this increased my lift height 1 1/2", now 8 1/2 total above ground.

Then, including the above adjustment, I shifted the side link pins to point outward. This in effect moves the implement closer to the tractor. I needed to adjust the top link to zero threads showing and still could not get the blade edges quite plumb but this adjustment bought another 2" of lift, now for a total of 10 1/2" above ground.

I'm not there yet but progress in the right direction is promising. I'm thinking that adding a Carter type quick connect, which in effect lowers the side links, while all else remains the same, I may gain some top link adjustment length and also raise the blade a couple/few more inches. The good news was that neither of the experiments substantially changed the blade in the "working" position so my other accessories will likely still function as designed.

 

[Racer71]

We have an adjustable link for the tilt on the 3ph. If you can get a 2nd one for the other side you can shorten both and raise the lifting arms.

Anyone know of a source for these?

 

[RedDirt]

We have an adjustable link for the tilt on the 3ph. If you can get a 2nd one for the other side you can shorten both and raise the lifting arms.

Anyone know of a source for these?

Racer71,
I think I'm having a "well duh" moment. I sure don't know why this wouldn't work. But I think the links would be lengthened not shortened. You want your side arms lower to the ground in the working position so there is more lift height available. Of course, a corresponding adjustment to the top link will be necessary to maintain the correct cutting angle.

I don't know a specific source but TSC, Messicks and Argi Supply carry 3PH linkage parts. Maybe a search there would be fruitful....or maybe find something that is modifiable. Other option may be Kubota for me. I need to look and see if the right side adjuster would work on the left. The clevis is set at an angle to the turnbuckle so maybe it will, maybe it will be opposite.

Anyway...great idea and worth checking out.

 

[Racer71]

Red,

I did some testing this weekend and here are the results.

You had worked with the location where the top link attaches to the tractor. So did I. I started with the blade level (square) and the top link in the upper hole on the tractor. (1st picture)

I raised the blade and it came up 11 inches. (pictures 2 and 3)

I then put the top link in the lower hole and kept the blade level. It raised 13 3/4 inches. Gained 2 3/4 inches. (pictures 4 and 5)

But I think the links would be lengthened not shortened. You want your side arms lower to the ground in the working position so there is more lift height available.

The lower arms will be at the same angle for a given blade cutting angle and blade depth. Shortening the lifting links will lower the arms attached to the 3ph cylinder giving more upward travel.

My lifting links came with 2 height adjustment holes where they attach to the lower arms. I added a 3rd on the fixed lenght arm and adjusted the other to match. This combo raised the blade 20 iches. (pictures 6 and 7)

A word of caution though. The left hand linkage is starting to bind in the down position.

 

[bx23barry]

You could also drill new holes in the lower 3pt arms closer to the tractor. That seems to be the way to go on the bx.

 

[RedDirt]

You could also drill new holes in the lower 3pt arms closer to the tractor. That seems to be the way to go on the bx.

Another pending experiment! Barry, have you done this on your tractor?

Racer,
Your tractor has many more adjustment options than the bx. We have only one pivot point choice for the top link at the tractor. I was experimenting moving the top link pivot point on the implement, not the tractor. And the bx lift arms/side links have only one connection point. Seeing your variety of hook-up options confirms there are many ways to arrive at an equitable solution.

If bxBarry's method works (for me) it may be the easiest solution of the ones investigated thus far.

 

[SkunkWerX]

RedDirt,

Mundy's picture was a good one, showing the different connection points, but, I do not believe the lower link connection is the cause.

Racers point is well taken. you could even rig up a scrap block of wood, place it behind your A-frame on your blade, connect your toplink and move it up and down with C-clamps to find the sweet spot.

The actual reason for this dilemma lies on the construction and mounting geometry of the blade itself, you see it in Racer's picture better than yours, but both of your blades are similar.

Item 1: My blade has more curvature, thus, the cutting angle is more acute.

Item 2: My blade appears to be "shorter". The distance from the bottom of your blade to the horizontal beam on your frame is greater. Think of it this way: Your balde is for a taller tractor. One with taller rear tires and a higher connection point.

I will take this measurement and post it.



Possible remedies:

1. I like Racer's idea, experiment to see if this helps.

2. You could even weld some tabs (spacers) to change your cutting angle.

-Remove the cutting edge.
-below the bolt holes weld a strip of 1/4" thick metal, then rebolt the cutting edge.
This will move the ground engaging portion of the cutting edge forward, thus changing it's angle of attack.

OR, my prior suggestion,

3. Find a way to move the entire blade's bottom portion forward by modfying it's mounting points.

 

[Tim371]

This is what I did with my 5' king cutter, cut off mounts with sawsall and weld back on pointing down, made a huge difference.

 

[bx23barry]

Another pending experiment! Barry, have you done this on your tractor?

Racer,
Your tractor has many more adjustment options than the bx. We have only one pivot point choice for the top link at the tractor. I was experimenting moving the top link pivot point on the implement, not the tractor. And the bx lift arms/side links have only one connection point. Seeing your variety of hook-up options confirms there are many ways to arrive at an equitable solution.

If bxBarry's method works (for me) it may be the easiest solution of the ones investigated thus far.

Sorry I been away. No, I haven't had any issues with my lift height but there was a thread about doing it awhile back with photos. Seemed like the way to go so I stuck it in my brain at the time (amazing it stayed there this long). Might do a search and try to find it.

 

[RedDirt]

This is what I did with my 5' king cutter, cut off mounts with sawsall and weld back on pointing down, made a huge difference.

I've been gone a bit too.

Tim, Your solution was my first idea but my top of blade is only 1 3/4" below the "pulling arm". If I rotate the lower mounting flanges downward then I don't think I'll be able to rotate the blade 360 degrees because the blade would hit the turned down mounting flanges. From what I see in your photos my blade looks exactly the same. Are you still able to rotate 360 after you turned your side link mounts? I may need to resort to the Carter type quick connect to achieve this type of adjustment and still preserve the 360 rotation.

Skunk, I did try clamping a pivot point for the top link onto the a frame but I put the "new" pivot forward so that it aligned with the side link pins. See my earlier post, I gained a bit of elevation by doing this, but not substantial. Shifting the side link pins to point outward helped more but makes the implement much more difficult to hook up.

I know what you mean by my blade is built for a "taller " tractor. That, I'm sure, is the root of the problem. I'm going to price out a adjustable side link and try that on the left side (adjustable links on each side) if it is not too expensive. Or build a solid, but shorter, side link. I may also try boring new side link pivot holes in the lower arms as suggested by bx23barry.

 

[Racer71]

HI guys,

I ordered 2 adjustable side links today. I found them for$29. I will post pics when they arrive.