Comparison Home Stand By Generators

[300UGUY]

Read the reviews on Amazon. The smaller models (10-14 kW) have really crummy reviews... lots of anecdotes of generator rotor failures. I have found similar stories elsewhere, which changed my mind about putting in a Generac 14 kW. Conversely, once you get 17-20 kW models, people seem pretty happy with them. I guess that might be one reason to "oversize" your generator choice.

Standby generator is a necessity in my case, as I have a deep well, and need a decent amount of power to start the well pump. I have no problem dragging out my portable generator when I am home, but it would be a domestic-catastrophe if we lost power while I was traveling on business. I am almost done with a GenTran 10 circuit transfer panel for my portable generator, and will park it permanently in a shelter outdoors to make it more convenient for the wife to use when I am gone.

I started my search looking for a whole-house generator, but have decided that was a bad way to go. A huge generator (17-20 kW, ok huge for me) loafing along when my average load is about 3 kW (with spikes for well pump, hot water heater, dryer, stove) is a waste of fuel. I can manage what I need easily with a 6 kW generator. My B&S Vanguard 10 kW is overkill with the selective loads I am powering.

I think undersizing a generator is a bad idea. I had a Coleman 7.5 kw generator, and I could hear it lug down when my well pump kicked it. One day, it lugged down, threw a rod!! A hot water heater draws at least 4500 watts, and that is a pretty constant load. My well is about 200 ft deep, a 3/4 pump with a 30 amp breaker, so I would allow 3000 watts just for a well pump. You don't want to run a motor on low power, it will shorten the life of the motor.

 

[buickanddeere]

300UGUY You are correct. If there is one main and consistent cause of failure of any machine. It's the operator overloading the machine.

 

[jacspath]

Hey, I totally agree that under powering your system is just plain dumb. But over doing it is, while less dumb, still rediculous. What you need to do is what 300UGUY has done which is make a detailed and realiztic analysis of your situation [My well is 50 feet deep and I head hot water from the propane fired furnace so my elect needs are much less that his [or hers]. Don't waste money on more than you need, but spend it [if you can't do it yourself] on a detailed analysis of what you do need [plus a 10% 'reserve' extra].

 

[daugen]

I never worried when we went away if the gen was running too much. If something happened where the power was out for more than a day, I think I'd hear about it in the news or a neighbor with my cell number would call. He could always just push the rocker switch to off ,and then perhaps come back in six or eight hours and start it up again. If I was on a cruise ship, I sure wouldn't want my fridge and freezer to get spoiled.
the amount of propane I used in three years was less than a couple hundred bucks and that included one multi day outage, six or seven shorter outages a year, and no other use of the propane tank. Most of these engines need to be run more, not less.

I had a 100% electric house so I knew the heat pump would give it an adequate workout. And when I left on a trip I would always throw the breaker on the electric hot water heater and of course change the hvac setting to less comfortable/less operation. Have that 80 gallon water heater come on at the same time the fridge, freezer and 5 ton heat pump and it was all that 20kw Generac could handle. And not well, it would momentarily bog at times and the lights would flicker. Turning the hot water heater off helped, but not entirely.
If they all kick on/surge at once, it's quite a load and i bet the governor is going wide open trying to keep the rpm up.

Properly sized for my current home, so no flickering lights, (good way to wreck your pc if it isn't hooked into a UPS) I'd need at least a 36kw unit with one heat pump and two gaspack blowers. And everything else electric. But the price is just nutso higher than the 22kw unit. I decided to save the money and just shed load. Easy to do if one just keeps in mind what appliance draws what, as talked about here. An electric hot water heater, refrigerator and freezer can go a pretty long time and still stay within some safe or desired temp range. So then turn something else off, and turn all those high loads on for a while, and then turn them off again. Flipping breakers is not hard to do. Maybe put some color coding on the breakers based on a load shedding scheme previously thought out.

I may desire a 600 hp motor in my truck, for those times I might need it...
But I can meet all my needs with 300hp. At issue is how much time I'm running my truck actually floored
with 300hp. I grew up with a Blue Flame Six so 300hp seems pretty good to me btw.

 

[buickanddeere]

10% is a rather slim margin. On a consumer grade machine continuous operation above 75-80% is not advised.

 

[piercedtiger]

My water heater is 4500w as well, thus I throw the breaker for that whenever I'm on generator power. I knew that when getting my portable, and figured we didn't need hot water for showers immediately so that could wait for the return of grid power. We're on town water that I believe to be gravity fed due to the tank being on top of a hill above the town. That leaves me to run mostly LED lights, pellet stove, fridge, freezer, and other small electric items. Thus far my 5000w Champion has worked perfectly for our needs.

 

[GreenheadRecycle]

We used a interlock kit on our breaker box to transfer power from a gen-set. Simple to use/install. You get all the circuits on your breaker box to adjust power, not just a few. A lot cheaper option and no extension cords. Be sure to get the switch made for your exact breaker box.

Generator InterLock Kit | Safe Connection of Generators to Electrical Panels

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7DkaorEQPQ

 

[Garandman]

I was told this area has a lot of power outages but wasn't sure what "a lot" meant. The unit was installed at the end of November and excluding self test has already run 14 hours!

 

[300UGUY]

We had 14 days without power in 2013. I had a new neighbor move in, he didn't believe he needed a generator. After a 30 hour blackout, he changed his mind....

 

[GManBart]

We had 14 days without power in 2013. I had a new neighbor move in, he didn't believe he needed a generator. After a 30 hour blackout, he changed his mind....

Yep...the guy who sits across from me lives in Howell as well, and I think I remember when that outage was.

 

[check]

I think you did miss a lot lol. The link that I posted brings you to a website to compare generators and they have Cummings, Hondas, Yamahas, B&S, Generacs and whole bunch of others. Try this link Electric Generators Direct | Specializing in Power Generators see if you get a different one if not I will find the right one. Funny when I punch it in I get the right site.
This is the original site Outdoor Power Equipment @ Power Equipment Direct - Outdoor Power Equipment Superstore - Power Equipment Dealer, Outdoor Power Equipment Store, Outdoor Power Equipment for Sale, Outdoor Power Equipment Dealers

Thanks, K man, I had a look at the reviews. All I could see was Generac after Generac, with a few B & S thrown in, and 2 Kohlers. The Kohler reviews were from people who at least had them for a couple of years, but the Generac reviews were mostly from people who just got theirs. So, little or no long-term reliability data, which is what I was looking for. Also, the website really seems to promote Generac/B & S.

 

[check]

We had 14 days without power in 2013. I had a new neighbor move in, he didn't believe he needed a generator. After a 30 hour blackout, he changed his mind....

Yes, piece of mind was worth a lot to us up in Cottage Country (North of Toronto). We of course HAD to have a whole house standby generator at the cottage, because we have a hot tub that must have power at all times in the (very cold) winter. And the automatic transfer switch was also a no-brainer, because we live 150 miles from the cottage.

One idea for those who don't want to pull your meter when installing the automatic transfer switch: (The instructions on our Kohler called for power to go first to the transfer switch, then to the panel.) What we did was to take all the breakers out of our main (service entrance rated) panel, and then instal a single 100 amp breaker back into it and run a cable over to the transfer switch. Then, we bought another 100-amp panel kit of the same brand (costing less than $200), wired it downstream of the transfer switch, and put all our breakers back in to this second panel. (Of course you have to have enough room to put the second panel close by, so that all your wires will still stretch to it.) The beauty of this setup is that we can test the generator from indoors any time we want, by simply turning off the single 100-amp breaker in the first panel, whereupon the transfer switch will act as if the power coming in to the house has gone out. Works great!

 

[daugen]

having just put in a small (175 gal) hot tub I wondered about that, dealing with an outage in the winter. But I can easily drain mine out on the lawn off the elevated porch where it is. 4kw is how many amps? Only really is an issue when compressor driven appliances or heating devices start up. Which in a modern home can be a lot of total demand at once.

I thought most well insulated hot tubs were good for a couple days. Where I live, I just can't imagine a multi day outage in the dead of winter. Fall hurricane, you bet. But in January? In NC? With Global Warming to protect me? ha....But if I lived in Canada, where a lot of the high quality tub brands are made, then what, dump the water on your deck or lawn and have it turn into a skating rink? Or over your walkway...So I can see why you would want to keep the heat in there. Which means you need a gen. And maybe a portable backup too...belt and suspenders.

 

[aczlan]

4kw is how many amps? Only really is an issue when compressor driven appliances or heating devices start up. Which in a modern home can be a lot of total demand at once.

~16 amps @ 240VAC

Aaron Z

 

[farmer2009]

having just put in a small (175 gal) hot tub I wondered about that, dealing with an outage in the winter. But I can easily drain mine out on the lawn off the elevated porch where it is. 4kw is how many amps? Only really is an issue when compressor driven appliances or heating devices start up. Which in a modern home can be a lot of total demand at once. I thought most well insulated hot tubs were good for a couple days. Where I live, I just can't imagine a multi day outage in the dead of winter. Fall hurricane, you bet. But in January? In NC? With Global Warming to protect me? ha....But if I lived in Canada, where a lot of the high quality tub brands are made, then what, dump the water on your deck or lawn and have it turn into a skating rink? Or over your walkway...So I can see why you would want to keep the heat in there. Which means you need a gen. And maybe a portable backup too...belt and suspenders.

Watts/volts=amps

4000/240=16.667
7500/240=31.25

 

[daugen]

thanks, I should remember that from my college course, what a fluff course, electronics 101. I had to learn these things, which came in handy later on in life when I owned a Radio Shack store. In that course we had to build an AM radio from scratch and have it receive three stations. I got two and some static. Passed....it was the late Sixties.

Can anyone speak to the quality of the AC output produced by various generators? Did the consumer reports article talk about that? I'm sure there's some spec, but tighter is always better. Not a pure sine wave I'm sure, but how "good" is it?
And what happens when the motor bogs on full demand and those nice tops get chopped off? Doesn't that create heat in the appliance, another negative side effect like a brownout on a refrigerator motor?

 

[check]

having just put in a small (175 gal) hot tub I wondered about that, dealing with an outage in the winter. But I can easily drain mine out on the lawn off the elevated porch where it is. 4kw is how many amps? Only really is an issue when compressor driven appliances or heating devices start up. Which in a modern home can be a lot of total demand at once.

I thought most well insulated hot tubs were good for a couple days. Where I live, I just can't imagine a multi day outage in the dead of winter. Fall hurricane, you bet. But in January? In NC? With Global Warming to protect me? ha....But if I lived in Canada, where a lot of the high quality tub brands are made, then what, dump the water on your deck or lawn and have it turn into a skating rink? Or over your walkway...So I can see why you would want to keep the heat in there. Which means you need a gen. And maybe a portable backup too...belt and suspenders.

Can't drain the hot tub completely, since some of the pipes will still contain water, and thus freeze and split. And we use it the most in the winter - love sitting in it with our toques on, catching snowflakes on our tongues - even at 20 below! BTW, our hot tub breaker is 50 amps, times 240 volts = 12,000 watts. Our standby generator is 17,000, so we are covered. (it would never use more than about 40 amps, but still, we need the big generator and are certainly happy to have it.)

Also BTW, the actual tub on our (Dynasty) hot tub is insulated, but the pipes that surround it are not, other than the flimsy enclosure and a very thin membrane. (Dumb design!)

 

[check]

thanks, I should remember that from my college course, what a fluff course, electronics 101. I had to learn these things, which came in handy later on in life when I owned a Radio Shack store. In that course we had to build an AM radio from scratch and have it receive three stations. I got two and some static. Passed....it was the late Sixties.

Can anyone speak to the quality of the AC output produced by various generators? Did the consumer reports article talk about that? I'm sure there's some spec, but tighter is always better. Not a pure sine wave I'm sure, but how "good" is it?


And what happens when the motor bogs on full demand and those nice tops get chopped off? Doesn't that create heat in the appliance, another negative side effect like a brownout on a refrigerator motor?

Now there is a VERY good question - indeed, the Kohler guys made a big deal about how "clean" the power was on our model RES17 when we got it back in October of 2010, but I have not seen a comparison of the various brands anywhere. Wonder why not?

 

[check]

Here is a review from someone who seems to be quite knowledgeable (from www.complaints.com):

I would beg to differ with you on the buy Generac they will support. I am certified service for them all and Kohler is by far the better generator. The difference is Generac dealers are signed up by Generac, Kohler dealers are signed up by a distributor and have to work through the distributor, and yes some distributors are more industrial and do not understand the residential line. If you go to Kohlers site and look up the service locator I'm sure you will find a qualified service dealer. I would still rather buy a Kohler than a Generac I have never replaced a Kohler engine but have replaced many Generac engines. Lightning strikes damage pc boards there is nothing you can do to stop a close by hit from damaging a board

 

[buickanddeere]

Calculating so Called watts via colts X amps and ending up with volt amps is the reason why a "correctly sized" generator will not carry the load.
There is the fact that a 1000W load on 120V can draw 1500VA if there is a leading or laggin power factor. Bubba adds up 4000watts, purchases a 4000Watt generator and wonders why the generator won't carry the load. Loading the 4000 watt generator with a 4000watt load that draws 50amps instead of 33.3 Amps as expected.