Comparison Home Stand By Generators

[buickanddeere]

If the power goes out when it's really hot or really cold, and it costs me $100-120/Day to run my generator (20kw Generac on NG) it's not that I don't care, but I know it's a lot cheaper than: paying to stay in a hotel, paying to fix broken pipes, paying to clean the basement, and repair water damage, paying medical bills after my wife hurts herself trying to lug a generator and fuel cans because I'm out of town. If she loses her job because she can't work from home (it's all phone and e-mail)...like during an extended outage, it means our family income drops by a huge amount....she makes more than I do. I did the rough math, and two weeks of her salary would have paid for our generator....money well spent.

This is why I always say it really depends on your circumstances, and not what works for anybody else. I have a coworker who's son requires home kidney dialysis while waiting for a transplant....he had to put in a standby generator running off NG to make sure they had power even if he was out of the country (he travels pretty regularly). He said he wasn't going to saddle his wife with a portable generator when she had all other manner of things to worry about when he was traveling....made sense to me.

I'm showing 5500cuft of NG to fuel a 20KW gen set at max power 24/7. Sept price of $16.29 per 1000 cuft. That would be a few cents under $90 a day. Odds are the daily fuel costs on the 20KW generator is under $50.

 

[Toyboy]

I'm showing 5500cuft of NG to fuel a 20KW gen set at max power 24/7. Sept price of $16.29 per 1000 cuft. That would be a few cents under $90 a day. Odds are the daily fuel costs on the 20KW generator is under $50.

You would find that it rarely would run at max load....... if ever.

 

[DarkBlack]

It seems from reading the posts that a lot of you have all electric or heavily electric homes?

I agree, they must have electric heat and electric hot water.
I've been doing this for many years, just last week for almost 48 hours straight during a snow storm.
5KW gas generator. I powered the whole house as usual, except I won't try the twin cylinder air compressor.
Otherwise it was everything as needed...Deep well pump, 2 refrigerators, 1 freezer, heat circulators, lights, t.v.s, computers, hair dryers, garage doors, electric range stove( 2 burners), microwave, yup, everything.
I can't imagine needing more. During the night the load is frig/freezers and the heat circulator, about 200 watts average, so I'm glad the generator isn't any larger. Those days used over 15 gallons of fuel, so about $45, that's enough.

 

[doxford jim]

Yes, a lot of people are all electric. In my case everything is electric including heat (geothermal) and the house can run off of my backup generator. As far as drying clothes is concerned, we only use the clothes dryer for sheets - everything else we hang on clothes lines. For us it isn't a problem as only two people live here (wife and self). The moisture in the hanging clothes gets put into the circulating air and as a result, hardly ever have to use a humidifier. We do have a propane backup furnace should our main heating unit fail.

 

[Toyboy]

We've been discussing the pros & cons of automatic vrs. manual start GenSets and large vrs. small. One thing that has gotten lost in this, is you can get a smaller automatic NG/propane GenSte and break out the critical circuits that you want to feed. All they need to do is install 2nd circuit breaker box, and transfer to that what you determine necessary to be comfortable in a power outage. During an outage all your power will then be transferred to the 2nd breaker box to feed those circuits..

By doing that you could reduce the size (Kw) and minimize fuel consumption. Doing that, an 8kw would most likely cover the major needs of most of us with a little extra without the hassle of the manual units. Those units are relativity inexpensive compared to the much larger units.

 

[GManBart]

I'm showing 5500cuft of NG to fuel a 20KW gen set at max power 24/7. Sept price of $16.29 per 1000 cuft. That would be a few cents under $90 a day. Odds are the daily fuel costs on the 20KW generator is under $50.

That makes it even more of a bargain!

I haven't looked that carefully in this thread, but nobody seems to subtract the amount that they aren't paying the power company during an outage. Sure, you can buy it cheaper than produce it yourself, but that still should be factored into the comparison.

Even if I pay only $5 per day for electricity (I wish!), and running a generator costs me $50, the difference is only $45.

 

[Threepoint]

That makes it even more of a bargain!

I haven't looked that carefully in this thread, but nobody seems to subtract the amount that they aren't paying the power company during an outage. Sure, you can buy it cheaper than produce it yourself, but that still should be factored into the comparison.

Even if I pay only $5 per day for electricity (I wish!), and running a generator costs me $50, the difference is only $45.

In some jurisdictions, the power utility is actually permitted to levy a surcharge to make up for lost revenue due to power outages beyond their control. It's the flip side of having their rates regulated. As I recall, this became a fairly hot issue a few years back in Maryland. Power was taken out by downed trees that many folks thought the power company should have been more diligent in trimming. Of course, when the tree crews try to trim the trees along their particular road frontage, folks don't like that either.

 

[nc redneck]

As posted before I have 17 KW whole house with 1000 and 500 gal propane tank. Very happy with it. Before it I had 10K, 12k surge gas powered electric start. Total pain but did the job. Only advice I could ad is buy the biggest you can afford. Even with 17K ( largest made at time) I had to put hard start kit on HVAC unit to start under gen power. Cost is small to get larger air cooled unit now, Liquid cool above 25 k will put you in commercial territory and double price.

 

[atgreene]

Who runs a standby generator enough to make diesel pay in " fuel savings". As for being "reliable". Who is going to run the spark ignition engine enough hours to wear it out. In particular when operated with clean burning LP or NG. As for long life and reliability of diesel vs spark ignition. This is 2014 with tier IV emissions diesels . This isn't 1975 with gasssers having points ignition and burning leaded fuel competing against a diesel.

Some ice storms we have been out for over a week, sometimes two. 200+ hours at 2-3 gallons per hour x 3.50 +- (if you can get it) pays for a diesel in a hurry.

 

[atgreene]

We've been discussing the pros & cons of automatic vrs. manual start GenSets and large vrs. small. One thing that has gotten lost in this, is you can get a smaller automatic NG/propane GenSte and break out the critical circuits that you want to feed. All they need to do is install 2nd circuit breaker box, and transfer to that what you determine necessary to be comfortable in a power outage. During an outage all your power will then be transferred to the 2nd breaker box to feed those circuits..

By doing that you could reduce the size (Kw) and minimize fuel consumption. Doing that, an 8kw would most likely cover the major needs of most of us with a little extra without the hassle of the manual units. Those units are relativity inexpensive compared to the much larger units.

My house and garage run on 6800 watts. 28x36 cape, full dormer, ell, and 56x42 heated garage. 6000 watts is a lot of generator if wired properly.

 

[atgreene]

Thanks for the link...

Looks to be very efficient.

Sound or quiet of operation is a big factor in my next genset purchase... the small "Valley" where I would use it reverberates sound...

How is the noise level and have you done any mods?

Its loud, but for less than a quart per hour, I can live with it. We can hear it run, its beside the basement garage door, but it doesn't wake me up at night. I put a 50 gallon saddle tank off one of my old trucks in the basement and piped it out to it. I can go a week if the tank is full. I also put two group 31 batteries on it and a trickle charger so they stay up. It auto starts 3 times per week for 15 minutes as a test.

I had a 18 kW pto, but my wife couldn't hook it up and my tractors always were in a hayfield or had implements on them. Dropping an implement and hooking up to a gen in a thunderstorm or 18" wet heavy snow sucks.

I

 

[grsthegreat]

When the power is out for 3 days, like it was here last winter. Who cares how loud or how much fuel it costs.

 

[vanguard]

am thinking of a new panel with a subpanel running key circuits, like the center gaspack, skip the heatpump for the second floor, for sure skip the 4kw hot tub heater, and simply budget my usage to the limits of the 22kw unit. It seems to be the tried and true unit. Though I bet the Kohler is similar; then it gets down to the Ford/Chevy argument of whether you prefer a Kohler 999cc unit vs a Vanguard/Generac 999.

You do know that the generac 22kw units can use two 200amp transfer switch/panels right? I'm in the process of doing this now. I'm in a similar position except that I have 3x200amp service so unless I want to go to their 60kw unit I need to pick which panel I can live without.

 

[grsthegreat]

You do know that the generac 22kw units can use two 200amp transfer switch/panels right? I'm in the process of doing this now. I'm in a similar position except that I have 3x200amp service so unless I want to go to their 60kw unit I need to pick which panel I can live without.

the largest generator you can use 2 x 200 amp transfer switches is the 48KW unit. a 60 KW would require a single 400 amp switch....i install lots of multiple 200 amp switches on my units. comes in handy

 

[vanguard]

the largest generator you can use 2 x 200 amp transfer switches is the 48KW unit. a 60 KW would require a single 400 amp switch....i install lots of multiple 200 amp switches on my units. comes in handy

You sound like you have a lot of expertise. What's the cheapest way I can power 3x200amp panels with propane?

 

[grsthegreat]

You sound like you have a lot of expertise. What's the cheapest way I can power 3x200amp panels with propane?

there is no cheap way haha. i have a program from generac to calc generator loads. its part of my powerplay software. i use it when i size my jobs.

If theres elect heaters...theres always problems. When i get houses with electric backup heaters and or electric water boilers, i always need to shed those loads....unless i go big.

i reciently hooked up a 45KW unit on a house with electric heat, elect backup heat, elect water heaters and heat pumps. took some doing. It works great though. On this application, he had 2 x 200 amp panels so i installed 2 x 200 amp transfer switches and joined the feeds together in 16x16 J box with single 200 amp feed to generator.




care has to be taken to link both switches EXACTLY the same. i use color coded wires .... it gets confusing at times.

 

[MossRoad]

Clothes drying in a power outage.... I've heard this more than once in this thread. Geez, just hang them up on the shower rod in the bathroom. They'll be dry in the morning.

We've become a nation of convenience demanding weenies! Good grief. :laughing:

I understand people needing power for medical reasons. I understand people concerned about their families when they're away. And I understand that sometimes its just nice to not be without the conveniences we are accustomed to. And that's fine. But holy cow folks, my spouse can take care of herself and the kids just fine without me. If its hot, we open the windows. If its cold, we throw another log on the woodburner. If we're thirsty, we drink water. If we're hungry, we cook some food.

What would happen to your spouse and kids if you died or became incapacitated, or, god forbid, you were out of town... ooooooo, out of town. booga booga. :laughing:

 

[MossRoad]

Home in Washington has a 400 amp service and the previous owner/builder put in one of those emergency generator 6 circuit panels to cover essentials with a cord to the back porch and used a Honda EM 5000...

It is far from automatic or seamless... it does cover all the essentials... not having propane, diesel or natural gas help me to decide to leave it as-is.

That'll get you by just fine. And money in your pocket, too.

 

[MossRoad]

Are any of you guys with the automatic whole house systems running into trouble with permits?

It can be real touchy here because the setback, noise limits, etc rule out the option for many in the city limits... plus the tax man comes out and my friend now has the privilege of paying another $300 a year in property tax.

No such restrictions on portable gensets with extension cords during an outage.

Never thought of that. Wonder if there's regs in HOA's, too?

 

[GManBart]

Clothes drying in a power outage.... I've heard this more than once in this thread. Geez, just hang them up on the shower rod in the bathroom. They'll be dry in the morning.

We've become a nation of convenience demanding weenies! Good grief. :laughing:

I understand people needing power for medical reasons. I understand people concerned about their families when they're away. And I understand that sometimes its just nice to not be without the conveniences we are accustomed to. And that's fine. But holy cow folks, my spouse can take care of herself and the kids just fine without me. If its hot, we open the windows. If its cold, we throw another log on the woodburner. If we're thirsty, we drink water. If we're hungry, we cook some food.

What would happen to your spouse and kids if you died or became incapacitated, or, god forbid, you were out of town... ooooooo, out of town. booga booga. :laughing:

Wow, we've gone from informative to downright silly. If you hang up clothes on the shower rod around here, they'll still be wet in the morning.

As I said earlier, not everyone's situation is the same, and what might be a convenience for you is a necessity for me....but the way you're posting, if you don't need it, nobody else does either.

We don't have a wood burner, or any other source of heat, so if the power goes out, the house is cold...and easily cold enough to burst pipes in bad weather. We also get 100*+F weather in the summer on a regular basis....yeah, you go ahead and open your windows when it's that hot out, and sweat your butt off all night long...that'll teach the rest of us.

Maybe your wife can manage lugging gas cans and generators if you're not there, but mine can't....she simply isn't strong enough (and has a bad shoulder). If I'm away, it's often a situation where I simply can't return, no matter what, and there isn't anybody around to help her. If I die, I doubt she'll stay here because it would be too much for her to manage at this point.

The good thing was, it didn't cost all that much money ($7500) to get a standby generator set up that she doesn't have to worry about any of that. It keeps us comfortable, ensures she can work from home no matter what, and takes care of things if we're out of town and the power goes out for any length of time....pretty easy decision, but I guess we're not cheap.

For some people, having the few bucks in their pocket is worth less than the security and convenience a good system provides.