Comparison Home Stand By Generators

[kiotiken]

I'm not clear on how you isolate the gen..... it has it's own main breaker and sub-panel - With no interconnect, do you run duplicate circuits, and manually re-plug appliances ?

Rgds, D.

Well, I may have taken a little more credit than I should have, I didn't do the hook up, a certified electrician did. But basically, all the circuits from the original main panel are removed and a single 100 amp breaker is added to feed the Generac panel. Normally, those house circuits get added to Generac panel which also contains an automatic transfer switch and takes care of isolating the generator, but since you can only "back up" about 10 circuits, I had them put a single 100 amp (I think) breaker in the Generac panel which then feeds a pony panel installed beside it. All the house circuits are then wired to that large pony panel. When utility power is available, the pony panel is energized, through the Generac panel which is energized through the 100 amp breaker in the main panel. When power is lost, the transfer switch in the Generac panel senses the loss, isolates the grid and fires up the generator. Within a few seconds, power from the generator energizes the Generac panel which in turn energizes the pony panel, with all the house circuits again. When power is restored, the transfer switch senses it, switches back to utility power and shuts down the generator. Sometimes you realize it by a little flicker in the lights, sometimes you eventually realize you can't hear the slight hum of the generator anymore.

We installed a pig, not sure how many gallons, but enough to run the generator full blast, 24/7 for 2.5 weeks by my calculations. Of course, that would work out to about a $2000 a month hydro bill!

 

[K man]

My generator is hooked up the same as yours kiotiken except I have 200 amp smart transfer switch panel.

 

[Threepoint]

Ok, I'll just start pulling the meter every time. Problem solved !... I would like to have a larger portable. I'm just not sold (as of yet) on the Chinese gensets. I'm just concerned that all the internal parts lacking quality control or,use of quality parts

Procrastination may be rewarded. The prices just keep dropping on the Chinese generators. I see that Sam's Club has their "Gentron" 10,000w/8000w electric start generator as a Black Friday online special for $599, with free shipping. No auto-idle, but if it's used for standby power, the non-inverter gensets will run full throttle anyway on practically any current draw, e.g. a couple of light bulbs (unlike the more expensive inverter sets that modulate rpms better).

After Snowmageddon in 2010, I upped my portable generator size with a 8250w Chinese unit from ETQ. It's never failed to start instantly and run reliably for many hours at a time.

 

[nc redneck]

I believe age and cost become a large part of this discussion. There was a time not that long ago when I enjoyed overcoming the elements. Filling many 5 gal gas cans up , pulling out 12 KW electric start gen set from shop, flipping breakers, and refueling at 3 in the morning. Not anymore.
For younger guys go for it, and stick with it as long as you care to.
Hurricane Fran broke me of those thoughts several years ago after a week or so on running on gen set only. The whole family was very happy to turn off large noise maker. It wears on you after several days.
Best friend sold me on whole house when I was looking " what if something happens to you " is wife going to pour fuel into gen set at 3 in the morning. Some will " better keep them " I doubt mine would.
If you can easily afford it buy the largest whole house auto transfer switch generator you can afford. I doubt you will ever regret.
Best of luck
Scott

 

[kiotiken]

I believe age and cost become a large part of this discussion. There was a time not that long ago when I enjoyed overcoming the elements. Filling many 5 gal gas cans up , pulling out 12 KW electric start gen set from shop, flipping breakers, and refueling at 3 in the morning. Not anymore.
For younger guys go for it, and stick with it as long as you care to.
Hurricane Fran broke me of those thoughts several years ago after a week or so on running on gen set only. The whole family was very happy to turn off large noise maker. It wears on you after several days.
Best friend sold me on whole house when I was looking " what if something happens to you " is wife going to pour fuel into gen set at 3 in the morning. Some will " better keep them " I doubt mine would.
If you can easily afford it buy the largest whole house auto transfer switch generator you can afford. I doubt you will ever regret.
Best of luck
Scott

I don't know about that, I was thirty when I had mine installed and none of what you described ever sounded fun to me!

 

[3930dave]

Well, I may have taken a little more credit than I should have, I didn't do the hook up, a certified electrician did. But basically, all the circuits from the original main panel are removed and a single 100 amp breaker is added to feed the Generac panel. Normally, those house circuits get added to Generac panel which also contains an automatic transfer switch and takes care of isolating the generator, but since you can only "back up" about 10 circuits, I had them put a single 100 amp (I think) breaker in the Generac panel which then feeds a pony panel installed beside it. All the house circuits are then wired to that large pony panel. When utility power is available, the pony panel is energized, through the Generac panel which is energized through the 100 amp breaker in the main panel. When power is lost, the transfer switch in the Generac panel senses the loss, isolates the grid and fires up the generator. Within a few seconds, power from the generator energizes the Generac panel which in turn energizes the pony panel, with all the house circuits again. When power is restored, the transfer switch senses it, switches back to utility power and shuts down the generator. Sometimes you realize it by a little flicker in the lights, sometimes you eventually realize you can't hear the slight hum of the generator anymore.

We installed a pig, not sure how many gallons, but enough to run the generator full blast, 24/7 for 2.5 weeks by my calculations. Of course, that would work out to about a $2000 a month hydro bill!

Thanks Ken..... my inner-geek was wondering if/where voltage was detected and controlled from.

Rgds, D.

 

[MossRoad]

Well, I'll have to add it up, but I'm fairly certain my full chest freezer only has maybe, a couple hundred dollars worth of meat. The rest is veggies from the garden, that, if bought canned or frozen from a store, would be maybe a hundred bucks. So, let's say $350 at most. Gas being $3.00/gallon. Generator consuming about a gallon an hour, so 20 gallons/per day = $60.00 in gas per day of power outage. So 6 days in fuel and I'd spend as much as the food I'm saving. Automatic stand-by generator with transfer switch is what, $5K once its all said and done (probably higher)? I'd have to save 14 years worth of food to justify the cost.

For me, at least, if the power goes out, the house is good for 24 hours minimum, winter or summer. Wood burner requires no electricity. So, power goes out. Flip the switches, power up the little 4500 watt generator, recharge the freezer, flush the toilet, fill the well tank and shut it off. I could get by on less than 2 gallons of fuel per day very, very easily with little loss of comfort and no loss of frozen food. I just can't justify the cost because the convenience isn't that great a need.

 

[buickanddeere]

I can't make my Generac 5500 burn 10 gallons a day operating 24/7.

 

[kiotiken]

Well, I'll have to add it up...

I add things up a little differently. 1 minute with 1 inch of water in my fully furnished basement because I'm away and my sump pump has no power pays the entire cost of my standby generator. Putting 3 kids to bed with their nightlights still working, teeth brushed etc and sitting down to watch T.V and surf the web in a nice cozy warm house when it's -30C outside with a howling wind,... priceless.

 

[ultrarunner]

Well, I'll have to add it up, but I'm fairly certain my full chest freezer only has maybe, a couple hundred dollars worth of meat. The rest is veggies from the garden, that, if bought canned or frozen from a store, would be maybe a hundred bucks. So, let's say $350 at most. Gas being $3.00/gallon. Generator consuming about a gallon an hour, so 20 gallons/per day = $60.00 in gas per day of power outage. So 6 days in fuel and I'd spend as much as the food I'm saving. Automatic stand-by generator with transfer switch is what, $5K once its all said and done (probably higher)? I'd have to save 14 years worth of food to justify the cost.

For me, at least, if the power goes out, the house is good for 24 hours minimum, winter or summer. Wood burner requires no electricity. So, power goes out. Flip the switches, power up the little 4500 watt generator, recharge the freezer, flush the toilet, fill the well tank and shut it off. I could get by on less than 2 gallons of fuel per day very, very easily with little loss of comfort and no loss of frozen food. I just can't justify the cost because the convenience isn't that great a need.

I'm in your camp...

The major power outage in Washington I had neighbors down the road that ran their propane generator for 6 days straight...

It was loud and I found it annoying.

They were so proud of not having to make any concessions because the power was out...

Next time I saw them they were complaining on how expensive it was to run in fuel and the non-stop running also scored a cylinder... it was new unit with almost no run time.

For me... power to run the well, some lights and to cycle the freezer/refrigerator a few hours makes me a happy camper.

Also spent about $25 total in fuel and it was a good learning experience for the kids... one of the youngest was anxious and we told her it would be just like camping except at home... no need to worry and she could sleep in her own bed every night.

Thankfully, I don't have any sump pumps or medical needs that require 24/7 power... if I did, I'm sure I would look at things differently.

 

[aczlan]

I add things up a little differently. 1 minute with 1 inch of water in my fully furnished basement because I'm away and my sump pump has no power pays the entire cost of my standby generator.

Might be worth looking into a water powered sump pump as a backup if you have water problems and are on city water.

Aaron Z

 

[kiotiken]

Might be worth looking into a water powered sump pump as a backup if you have water problems and are on city water.

Aaron Z

No city water, generator also powers the well pump. We don't have serious water issues all year, but the pump runs on and off part of the year and we have had water in the basement when the pump failed. Now there are multiple pumps with the generator backup. That was the main reason I installed the standby generator.

 

[aczlan]

No city water, generator also powers the well pump. We don't have serious water issues all year, but the pump runs on and off part of the year and we have had water in the basement when the pump failed. Now there are multiple pumps with the generator backup. That was the main reason I installed the standby generator.

Ah, our neighbor has a similar problem, but we have town water on the road so he has a water powered backup pump.

Aaron Z

 

[MikePA]

No city water, generator also powers the well pump. We don't have serious water issues all year, but the pump runs on and off part of the year and we have had water in the basement when the pump failed. Now there are multiple pumps with the generator backup. That was the main reason I installed the standby generator.

The sump pump was our main reason as well. No city water either. I tried a battery powered sump pump that clamped on the discharge pipe and used a 12v battery. A waste of money. To state the obvious, power is more likely to go out when the weather is bad, e.g., storms, which is when the sump pump is most likely to be needed. The battery just could not last long enough and the pump could not move enough water.

Bought our first generator, a noisy Generac, just to run the sump pump. It was so noisy, I'd run it just long enough to empty the sump pit, determine how long it took to fill the pit again, set my alarm for that and try to get some sleep before I had to go and start (pull start) the generator. The longer the outage lasted, the more extension cords I'd run.

I did this for years and while it saved the basement, I hated every minute of it.

 

[grsthegreat]

i install lots of whole house generators over the years...heck ive put in 14 in the past 3 months alone. My own house has a MANUAL transfer system cause i see no need for instant start up and transfer. if im not home, i dont want it running. Alot of the auto start systems are installed in older peoples houses where they dont want to bother starting up and transferring power. they just want it to handle it automatically.

personally, i dont want my system running while im away or asleep. they do suck some fuel to be sure. But i dont mind the sound (honestly a 22KW air cooled genarac is quieter than my riding mower by 1/2). And a running generator is a nicer sound to my ears than the alternative....a pitch black night with me living by flashlight.

Most, but not all air cooled units operate at 3600 RPM. my older (16 YO) Onan runs at 1,800 rpm. Generac now sells a 20 KW synergy air cooled that switches into 1800 rpm when the demand is light, or 3600 when demand is higher.

when i do change to a larger auto start generator, it will be a 20KW LIQUID COOLED 1,800 rpm generac quietsource system. Ive installed them in the past. nice system, and i like the reliability of a liquid cooled unit.

im thinking of doing it next year....but we will see. The only reason to do so is to include my now completed basement onto the generator backup system. Ill not use the auto start feature by simply leaving the switch in the off position. As i get older, i may see the need for auto start.

I happen to know a great installer.....i see him in the mirror every day:cool2:

 

[Looking4new]

i install lots of whole house generators over the years...heck ive put in 14 in the past 3 months alone. My own house has a MANUAL transfer system cause i see no need for instant start up and transfer. if im not home, i dont want it running. Alot of the auto start systems are installed in older peoples houses where they dont want to bother starting up and transferring power. they just want it to handle it automatically.

personally, i dont want my system running while im away or asleep. they do suck some fuel to be sure. But i dont mind the sound (honestly a 22KW air cooled genarac is quieter than my riding mower by 1/2). And a running generator is a nicer sound to my ears than the alternative....a pitch black night with me living by flashlight.

Most, but not all air cooled units operate at 3600 RPM. my older (16 YO) Onan runs at 1,800 rpm. Generac now sells a 20 KW synergy air cooled that switches into 1800 rpm when the demand is light, or 3600 when demand is higher.

when i do change to a larger auto start generator, it will be a 20KW LIQUID COOLED 1,800 rpm generac quietsource system. Ive installed them in the past. nice system, and i like the reliability of a liquid cooled unit.

im thinking of doing it next year....but we will see. The only reason to do so is to include my now completed basement onto the generator backup system. Ill not use the auto start feature by simply leaving the switch in the off position. As i get older, i may see the need for auto start.

I happen to know a great installer.....i see him in the mirror every day:cool2:

It is too bad that you aren't near North Bay, ON.
To get you to come up here to install one for me would cost me the house, too.

 

[MossRoad]

So honestly, how much money did fuel cost some of you to run the larger, whole house permanently installed generators for several days? I'm just curious how much fuel they tend to consume rather than guestimating with no real-world experience with these types of units.

 

[sparc]

"But you don't need a multi hundred dollar transfer switch that requires professional installation. "

The Generlink does not require an electrician or a permit or an inspection, at least mine didn't. The utility installed it for free, took 10 minutes and that included some jaw flapping between myself and the lineman. Yes it cost a couple hundred bucks, but I don't have to run around and be a slave to a half dozen extension cords, I can power anything in the house just by turning it on. No dedicated circuits, no transfer switch. And if I should move I just unlug it and take it with me, so my investment follows me tomthe next place.

 

[bcp]

The utility here doesn't allow it. I asked. They said "No, not approved."



Bruce

 

[3930dave]

GRS - on the air-cooled vs. liquid issue, are you thinking of Rated Operating Life hours ?

Do you see the air-cooled units taking a harder hit wear-wise when people neglect oil changes ?

Rgds, D.