Help with hydraulic winch for splitter build

[Roehm Farms]

I Just purchased a craigslist project to finish. As it sits it is a trailer mounted splitter with a 3.5" x 32" cylinder mounted on a light beam with a fixed wedge. It also came with a 4.5"x 32" or 34" cylinder. Right now none of the hydraulics are hooked up and there is no motor. The trailer has a boom mounted and the previous builder was planning to switch the cylinders and use the 3.5" on the boom.
My plan is to use this on my jd 4310, 8.6 gpm flow and 2500psi, for now and maybe eventually turn it into a 3ph splitter.

So now on to my questions,
I would like to build a light duty hydraulic winch to use on the boom instead of the lift cylinder, so I can drag cut pieces (up to 150lbs) up to 25' away to the splitter. I am planning to use a hydraulic wheel motor https://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulics/Hydraulic-Motors/Wheel-Mount-Hydraulic-Motors/28-3-cu-in-HYD-WHEEL-MOTOR-W-5-BOLT-HUB-9-8092.axd with a 8" wheel for the winch. For the hydraulic experts what can I expect out of the wheel motor with my 8.6 gpm flow?

For control, I have two options planned out, either a electric valve control with a remote https://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulics/Hydraulic-Valves/Solenoid-Valves/12-VDC-5-GPM-OC-MOTOR-SPOOL-HYDRAFORCE-SOL-VALVE-9-7988.axd after the single spool splitter valve. Or a double spool splitter valve with the lines to the winch tee'd with a ball valve in between so I can free spool the winch out. Any recommendations on which way to plan this?

Thank you for looking,
Jeff

 

[deerseeker001]

Welcome from Wisconsin

 

[Roehm Farms]

Welcome from Wisconsin

Thank you

I forgot that part, long time reader, first time poster, and I did search before I posted. There are some awesome splitter and everything else builds on this site.


-Jeff

 

[J_J]

Your motor speed at 8.6 GPM will by about 70.

Torque about 11,266 lbs using 2500 psi.

Your log slitter valve will have to have PB to add the solenoid valve.

You could add the solenoid before the log splitter valve and use a regular log splitter valve.

The solenoid valve will give you full flow all the time.

You can't tee open center valves. They must be in series.

You could use a valve with float and be able to pull the winch cable.

 

[Roehm Farms]

Your motor speed at 8.6 GPM will by about 70.

Torque about 11,266 lbs using 2500 psi.

Your log slitter valve will have to have PB to add the solenoid valve.

You could add the solenoid before the log splitter valve and use a regular log splitter valve.

The solenoid valve will give you full flow all the time.

You can't tee open center valves. They must be in series.

You could use a valve with float and be able to pull the winch cable.

Thanks J_J

70rpm with an 8" wheel/winch spool (25" circumference) ~72 Feet per minute just under 1mph would be plenty fast and likely need slowed down. The electric winch I was looking at is 13fpm. So I may need a flow control with the electric solenoid.

Wasn't planning on teeing the valves, I was thinking about putting Tees in the lines between the valve and wheel motor with a ball valve in between the two lines to provide a bypass, open the ball valve to freewheel the motor.

Thanks again, Jeff

 

[Roehm Farms]

Here is what I'm working with. I picked up some hoses today, it does work.

 

[2458n]

You are correct in saying that there are some great builds on here. My question would be is the 150 pound log going to come to you or is the trailer /splitter going to tip and go to the log? I would use the larger cylinder on the splitters beam, as my 4 inch seems small on larger knotty pieces. you could cut the speed by using a two part line to your log. Pulley would have tongs on it,(or chain) with the end being hooked back on lifting beam. You have a nice starting point for your build. How are you going to mount the 4-way splitter? Catch table ?

 

[muddstopper]

Or, you could go to TSC and get an atv winch and mount on your boom and use a long control cord to operate the winch.

 

[Roehm Farms]

Thanks guys

2458n, the trailer is plenty heavy, but I see your point, also why am thinking it may be turned into a 3point. I would be worried a double line would get tangled to easy. I was pretty impressed with what how it did with the 3.5" cylinder but didn't really try any notty stuff.

Muddstopper, I have looked at them this one is a lot cheaper then what I am looking at 2500 lb. Electric ATV/Utility Winch with Wireless Remote Control but then a need a battery and charger in the mix also.

 

[muddstopper]

For control, I have two options planned out, either a electric valve control with a remote https://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulics/Hydraulic-Valves/Solenoid-Valves/12-VDC-5-GPM-OC-MOTOR-SPOOL-HYDRAFORCE-SOL-VALVE-9-7988.axd after the single spool splitter valve.
Thank you for looking,
Jeff

I assumed you had already planned a battery and charger as they would be needed for a 12v solenoid valve.

I use a small 1000lb truck crane with electric winch on my splitter. My 25hp kholer has electric start and I use a marine battery for the starter and to operate the winch. I did make my own control cord for the winch. Control cord is about 20ft long, this lets me pull the cable to the round, hookup and winch back to splitter. Any hydraulic system with a manual control valve would necessitate actually staying within arms reach of the control valve in order to operate the winch. I use log tongs to attach to the round and sometimes they slip off while winching. No problem with the electric winch since i am still standing next to the round and can easily rehook. I suspect a manual hydraulic winch would mean a lot of walking back and forth between the round and the control valve. If I was going to use a hydraulic winch, I believe i would opt for the 12v solenoid valves with a remote or long control cord before I would use the manually controlled valves. I also believe I prefer to just run the cable off the winch over free spooling. If i was having to drag anything over 20ft, free spooling the winch cable might save a few seconds, but then you would still have to walk back to the machine to close the ball valve before you could winch the round. I guess it really depends on just how far you need to winch your wood.

 

[Roehm Farms]

Thanks muddstopper,

I guess I figured I could run the electric valve of off the tractor easy, I would think the winch would need at least a small battery close by. I do have one of these winches on a small trailer that I just plug into the rv plug of the truck to run. I always thought it was kind slow though. I agree I don't want to be walking back n forth to run the winch. I was also looking at spring loaded tongs to help with them coming loose.

Some back ground, I haven't done much logging or firewood work. I took a bunch of trees down this year to build a fence, and put in an outdoor burner last week. I have about 10acres of woods that were logged two years ago so there are a lot of tops back there to cut up. Also have a excavator and have been cleaning up fence rows around the farm fields. So I am planning to haul logs in to cut up and take it back in the woods to split what's back there.

-Jeff

 

[muddstopper]

You can still get your 12v power for a winch off the tractors charging system. I would suggest a battery mounted on the splitter somewhere and let the tractor keep the battery charged. If you decide to put a gas engine on the splitter, get one with electric start and you can keep the battery charged as well as not have to run the tractor while you are splitting wood. Plenty of old riding mowers you can get a cheap engine off of.

 

[Roehm Farms]

Finding some more questions, I usually spend to much time designing things.

Can I use the prince rapid extend valve Prince Rapid Extend Log Splitter Valve - Hydraulics, Pneumatics and Power Transmission at Beiler Hydraulics with my tractor @ ~8.6 gpm? And will there be any advantage as the cylinder has 3/8" fittings?

Thanks, Jeff

added info when I was testing the splitter in the picture above, I was running the tractor just above idle (~1200rpm) and had plenty of power. If I run less then full rpm my flow shouldn't be near the 8.6 Gpm mark.

 

[J_J]

I don't think so. That valve was designed for low GPM, about 4 to 5 GPM.

Quote:

Extend flows of up to 25 GPM with inlet flows of 4 GPM

Model LS3060 Rapid Extend Log Splitter

You could trick the system by running the tractor engine at an rpm that will provide a flow of 4 GPM to this valve.

I don't know if there is an advantage.

Perhaps you can be the first to try it.

 

[Roehm Farms]

Thanks J_J, see my added info above, if I am running the tractor half speed or less my flow wouldn't be near the 8.6gpm. Do you have any idea why there is a max flow on that valve? To much restriction in the regenerative mode with more flow?

Thanks again,
Jeff

 

[J_J]

I am assuming that it has to do with the size of the orifices in the valve.

 

[Roehm Farms]

Hey J_J, just found this review listed on splitez.com

Hi, a few weeks ago I purchased a Prince LSR-3060 2-speed valve from you, with the intention of using it on a tractor(~7gpm) for a 3pt mounted splitter. At the time you had asked for an update on how it ended up working out.
Having finished the splitter I can report it works very well in controlling 2 speeds. The lever has 2 stops for extension, pull it all the way out and the ram moves at about double speed, once it hits resistance release the lever and pull it again to the slow stop (about halfway for full force). However, what I think is really cool is that after contacting a log and getting the initial split at the slow speed, you can then pull the lever all the way out again and split through the full length of the log at the faster speed thus saving time.

 

[Roehm Farms]

Well I think i will be going hydraulic on the winch. I hooked up an electric and it works well, but it is slow. Still better then nothing. Split about a cord this afternoon.

Then pulled some more logs out of the woods before it thaws tomorrow.

Thanks, Jeff