help with a 50amp breaker.

[firemanpat2910]

I am installing a 50 amp 220 plug for an RV. from my main Power 200 amp box I have attached 6ga wires to the lugs on the bus bar. these go to the double 50 amp gfci breaker lugs. The white wire in my main power box is connected to the same connections as ground, there is not a seperate neutral bus. then from each breaker i ran a 6 ga wire to my rv plug, red to one side black to the other, white to the correct place and ground to its place. Plug has the correct power, red to white 120, black to white 120, red to black 220 white to ground 0. BUT when I plug in the rv it imediatly trips the breaker. can the gfci work correctly when white and ground are tied together?

 

[xrsrfn]

You may already know this but.....

PLEASE DO NOT STOP USING GFCI because it trips. Family, friends and your safety depends on the protective device to function correctly. You could have a small leakage from one of the hot wires to the frame of the RV and you may not realize that touching the door nob could electrocute you or someone you care about.

A GFCI circuit breaker continuously measures the differential current in the circuit branch. Any time there is an improper ground, or ground fault, and the differential reaches a preset threshold, the breaker trips, cutting off all current to that circuit branch. Sometimes, a pulse in the current can create a differential large enough to trip the breaker. There is a lag of several milliseconds between the time the fault occurs and the time it is detected and trips the device. Since a circuit breaker is located farther away than a receptacle, the delay will be increased by the time it take the current to reach the breaker.

What that means is you have another path for current flow other than your neutral that the GFCI breaker feeds. I would turn off all the electrical breakers in the RV and then energize the GFCI breaker, if it trips immediately you have current flow from one of the Hot wires to ground somewhere in the RV so look at whether there is a jumper from neutral bus to ground bus in distribution panel in RV.
If the GFCI breaker doesn't trip turn on individual breakers in RV until you find the one that does trip the GFCI breaker, then you can follow normal troubleshooting steps until you find the culprit.

 

[BeezFun]

The curly white wire from the gfci breaker should go to the neutral bus in the box. The return white wire from your outlet should go to the neutral terminal on the breaker. The way it works is the gfci is measuring the current going out of it's hot wire and comparing it to the return current on the white wire. If it isn't connected to the white wire, it thinks it's out of balance and trips.

Ground wire has no bearing on the operation of a gfci (but it should still be hooked up properly).

 

[Gator6x4]

I am assumning you have a plug with with four slots and you are using # 6 wire with four wires. Two hots, one ground and a neutral ground. Start at the breaker in the fuse box. Connect the RED wire to one leg of the breaker, connect the BLACK wire to the other leg of the breaker, connect the WHITE wire to the Service Panel ground and the bare wire or green wire to the Service Panel neuteral ground. If the GFI has it's own ground wire (WHITE) connect it to the service panel ground where the white wires are connected.

Most plugs are labeled, red, black, white, green. Make sure the female plug is wired correctly. Take a volt/OHM meter probe the red and white wires you should have 110 volts. Probe the black and white wires you should also receive 110 volts.

Now check your RV plug and MAKE SURE - MAKE SURE you are plugging black to black, red to red, white to white and neutral or green to green.

You may have to slip the cover on the male RV plug back to expose the connectors to determine how it is wired. Some RV plugs are wired strange.

 

[firemanpat2910]

ok thanks. my curly white is connected to ground in my 50amp breaker box not the white bus. I will change it and then if still popping I will try turning all the breakers in the rv off. I am pretty good at trouble shooting wires but between shore power, generator leads, inverters, and a "Smart box" I was alittle over welmed. Ans a heat index 0f 111 and a face full of north fla gnats and I got flusterd pretty fast

 

[aczlan]

ok thanks. my curly white is connected to ground in my 50amp breaker box not the white bus. I will change it and then if still popping I will try turning all the breakers in the rv off. I am pretty good at trouble shooting wires but between shore power, generator leads, inverters, and a "Smart box" I was alittle over welmed. Ans a heat index 0f 111 and a face full of north fla gnats and I got flusterd pretty fast

White should be on neutral bus, Neutral should be on the Neutral terminal of the breaker (if so equipped), green/bare should be on the ground bus and black/red should be on the hot terminals of the breaker.

Anything else WILL cause the GFCI to trip.

Aaron Z

 

[pnhd65]

STOP!!

Before you kill yourself!

I'm not an electrician, nor do I know the latest info in the electric code.

But I do perform a fair amount of electrical work, have installed services and sub panels.

It's hard to tell what you're doing from your original post, or how far your plug is for your RV from your main panel.

BUT NEVER TIE INTO THE MAIN BUS BARS WITH A DIRECT CONNECTED LUG!

You need to install a double pole, 220V breaker made for your service panel.

You can get a GFI breaker, although I'm not sure if they're available in your amp size.

Or you can put a GFI plug for where your RV is going.

BUT YOU NEED TO TAKE OFF YOUR DIRECT CONNECTIONS ON YOUR MAIN BUSSES! THAT ENTIRE WIRE RUN IS UNPROTECTED THAT WAY!

You install a double pole breaker to supply the RV plug, should be 4 conductor wire, black, red, white, bare,(ground).

You already had your panel open, I obviously don't know the manufacturer or model. But your bus bars should look like fingers where the breakers snap in. By putting in a double pole breaker, the breaker should attatch to a 'finger' from each bus bar. Not 2 'fingers' from the same bus.

I don't know what type of wire you've used, if it's aluminum, make sure you use noox on all connections.

If all your outlets in your RV are GFI, you don't really need a GFI breaker or
plug.

You should have 120V at your plug from each hot lead, hot to neutral or hot to ground.

I don't know what kind of volt meter you have, but I would never place lead to terminal, hot to hot on a volt meter.

I hope this helps. If you have no idea what I'm talking about, PLEASE STOP AND GET SOMEONE THAT DOES.

 

[gengine]

I don't know what kind of volt meter you have, but I would never place lead to terminal, hot to hot on a volt meter.

Hot to Hot is how you get 220v. The red lead flows at the opposite end of the spectrum from the black lead, completing the circuit. Putting a volt meter between the two will give you 220v. I don't know if I have ever seen a volt meter that doesn't read 220v, I think all of them are a minimum of 600v, but just check your meter before you try. Electric codes require them to be marked. Anyway, back to subject, if the black and red wires are connected to the same lug, they will individually give you 110v when tested to a ground. if you put the meter between the red and black, you won't get anything. However, if they are connected to seperate lugs, you get your 220v by tesing red to black. I just wanted to clear that up.

 

[hosspuller]

As I've read your problem, the GFCI supplying your outlet trips when the RV is plugged in. I would check the RV wiring. The neutral and ground in the RV must be separated. And kept separate all the way to the outlet you're plugging into. Otherwise the supplying GFCI senses the imbalance and trips.

 

[hayden]

I too am confused by what you've done in the 200A main breaker panel. And do you have a separate sub panel for the 50A breaker?

As I understood your post, you wired directly to the power bus in the 200A panel and somehow took those wires to a 50A breaker. That's a big no-no. The ONLY way to bring power out of a breaker panel is via a breaker plugged into the panel. In your case, that would be your 50A breaker. Is that what you did? Maybe I'm just misunderstanding.

From there I'd guess that you either have the wrong type of GFI breaker (you need to 2 pole, 220V that also has a neutral connection), or you have it wired up incorrectly.

 

[Ken]

What type of R.V. uses 220 volt power?
Normal 50 amp service is 2 legs of same side of power source.
Trailer parks are going to 50 amp service and so smaller campers are having to purchase and adapter to be able to use there 30 amp power plugs.

Using your volt meter measure the voltage to ground should be 110 +/_ voltage
Do same to 50 amp service still 110 volts to ground and across the lines same conductor so no voltage.

 

[JB4310]

Wow I'm confused by this thread :confused2: alot of misunderstandings ?

I'm no electrician but can usually offer some advice, but not sure what to say here.

Just curious, but is that how the camp grounds power is supplied, the service is GFI protected before it gets to the camper? Seems that would wreck havoc with nuisance trips, but can understand the desire for fail-safe protection.

JB.

 

[Ken]

The R.V. camp ground power and power to camper is not 220 volts.
The older campers used power of 30 amp 120 volts+/- but then more campers started to use 2 a/c units each requiring about 15 amp each and the refrig M/w and t.v so on exceding the 30 service.
The 50 amp. R.V. power is 2 conductors of 120 volts from same side of source so double 120 volt single phase power. one side of the power goes to load panel for the normal 30 amp service in camper. the other goes to the load panel for the 2nd a/c unit and although double wiring same line of A/c.
That is why I asked which R.V. camper is using 220 volts. the OP said it tripped his breakers and should have. This is better than becoming bacon.
ken

 

[tcartwri]

The R.V. camp ground power and power to camper is not 220 volts.
The older campers used power of 30 amp 120 volts+/- but then more campers started to use 2 a/c units each requiring about 15 amp each and the refrig M/w and t.v so on exceding the 30 service.
The 50 amp. R.V. power is 2 conductors of 120 volts from same side of source so double 120 volt single phase power. one side of the power goes to load panel for the normal 30 amp service in camper. the other goes to the load panel for the 2nd a/c unit and although double wiring same line of A/c.
That is why I asked which R.V. camper is using 220 volts. the OP said it tripped his breakers and should have. This is better than becoming bacon.
ken

Wow, never knew that! That would explain a lot.

 

[hr3]

Wow, never knew that! That would explain a lot

and don't remember it for long I hope because,, The 50a outlet at the rv park is 240 volt not 2 120v circuits on the same leg,, Read the link.. Using a 50 to 30 Amp RV Power Adapter - RV Basics .com

 

[cycle_gator]

Thank you, for clarifying the issue of the 50 amp RV circuit. It IS MOST CERTAINLY FED FROM THE TWO LEGS OF A 220v circuit, any decent reference showing the wiring of an RV supply circuit shows this.

Now, a question for the OP, how far apart are the GFCI and the RV outlet? Do you have a two pole 50 amp GFCI breaker ( that is like gold)?

 

[Qapla]

Perhaps to clear thing up a bit, you could post some pictures of the connections.

If you don't have the RV plug taken apart, at least post some clear pics of the breaker panel with the connections showing.

Your original post does seem to contradict itself, so, like others, I am not sure how you have things connected.

Besides the HOT legs, there is the questions of the NEUTRAL bar and if it is BONDED or not.

 

[Ken]

and don't remember it for long I hope because,, The 50a outlet at the rv park is 240 volt not 2 120v circuits on the same leg,, Read the link.. Using a 50 to 30 Amp RV Power Adapter - RV Basics .com

Hr3 I stand corrected and was wrong. about the 220 volt circuit.
Re-reading my National Electrical code book Articicle 551 Figure 551-46(c) And reading the
explaination of uses.
551-46(c) attachment plugs.
Recreational vehicles (and now leaving a few lines out.)( 1) 15 ampere branch circuit
shall be 2- [pole 3-wire grounding type. rated 15 amp 125 volt conforming to 551-46c
R.V. (1) 20 amp circuit shall have attachment plug 2-pole 3-wire grounding type, rated at 20 ampere. 125 volts
Receational vehicles having a power-supply assembly rated 40 amperes or 50 amperes permitted by section 551-42(d) shall have a 3 pole 4 wire grounding type attachnent plug rated 50 amperes 125/250 volts figure 551 46(c).
50 amp plug the the X Y is voltage G ground and W
Then reading 1RV2 Forums 30/20 to 50 Amp adapter A question was asked if Y adapter sold by campinmg world were pluged into a 20 amp and 30 amp receptacle could produce a 50 amp circuit. Answer was Used to work but now don't Electrical code requires GFCI and these will present a ground fault so lose that leg.
All this rambeling just to say there is a great amount of confusion .
May better to use book that came with the camper to decide power uses.
visit 1RV2.com and there is 8 pages on this question of power.
ken

 

[Diamondpilot]

I am not sure what is going on here but I have wired up a couple of RV outlets when we built my friends barn. They WERE NOT 220, they were 110. Not sure if they were 30 or 50 amp though.

We have 30 and 50 amp services at the marina, now this is boats, They are 110 volt and 220 volt. Some bigger boats like mine actually use 2 30 amp leads and you have 2 seperate panels. There is a tie switch where you can just hook up 30 amp service #1 and tie panel #2 to it but you must watch your load then.

One last thought is if you camper is indeed 220 volt it could be the tongue jack. My barn has 2 30 amp Marine Hookups. If I put my boat in there with the motor touching the ground it will trip the GFI. Same thing with my tractor and the block heater. If I have the FEL Bucket or rear grader blade touching the ground the GFI will pop. When I say ground I mean my cement slab. To solve this issue I got conveyor belt and put it under the metal to cement contact and issue is solved.

Chris

 

[Ken]

Criss I used to think rv. boats and shore power was only 120 volts. But then brought to my attention that 220 is now being used by the large RV's including the S/B Generators.
Incourage you and all others to look at 1RV.com Forum there is 8 pages of confusion as to what type to use .
ken