Help selecting a pellet stove.
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cowboydoc
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Dave the Farm and Fleet store has four units on the floor and six more in the back. They have about 10 pallets of pellets too.
DaveNay
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</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Dave the Farm and Fleet store has four units on the floor and six more in the back. They have about 10 pallets of pellets too. )</font>
Those are pellet stoves I believe.
(Specifically which store? Idaho is pretty far from IL.)
I definitely want corn though. More corn than I can use in a lifetime only 300ft from the front door at $1.60/bu delivered. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Those are pellet stoves I believe.
(Specifically which store? Idaho is pretty far from IL.)
I definitely want corn though. More corn than I can use in a lifetime only 300ft from the front door at $1.60/bu delivered. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
OP
_RaT_
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Corn, you mean like corn from the cob. Does it have a high energy content? I don't know if they sell corn fuel here. We grow lots of corn though. Perhaps it just does not get cold enough here to make it economical to do.
DaveNay
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Yep. Whole kernel corn. As it comes right out of the field. It's called "shelled corn", and has to be dried to below 15% moisture content. (lower is even better). Can be bought direct from farmers for the cheapest price, or from grain elevators for a little markup.
This is a very quick comparison of different fuels:
1 BUSHEL OF SHELLED CORN = 5 GALLONS OF LP GAS
1 BUSHEL OF SHELLED CORN = 3.5 GALLONS OF FUEL OIL
1 BUSHEL OF SHELLED CORN = 140 Kwh OF ELECTRICITY
1 BUSHEL OF SHELLED CORN = 4.75 C.C.F. OF NATURAL GAS
A bushel of shelled corn for me is $1.60 and my fuel oil this year is about $2.80 per gallon, or $9.80 for the equivalent quantity of energy.
/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
This document has a nice chart with price guesstimates, just plug in your own dollars to get the real numbers.
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_RaT_
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WoW! Pretty impressive. I wonder if they have any corn engine conversion kits for my Ford F250?
DaveNay
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</font><font color="blue" class="small">( WoW! Pretty impressive. I wonder if they have any corn engine conversion kits for my Ford F250? )</font>
Yep..It's called ethanol (E100) or Biodiesel (B100). /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Yep..It's called ethanol (E100) or Biodiesel (B100). /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Just thinking out loud here.
What is shelled corn, or rather how do they shell it?
How do they dry the corn?
How many bushels can you get from an acre or corn?
Is this something an individual could do if they wanted to grow their own fuel source for heat?
It does seem pretty inexpensive to buy....at least in the midwest.
Inquiring minds want to know /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
What is shelled corn, or rather how do they shell it?
How do they dry the corn?
How many bushels can you get from an acre or corn?
Is this something an individual could do if they wanted to grow their own fuel source for heat?
It does seem pretty inexpensive to buy....at least in the midwest.
Inquiring minds want to know /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
DaveNay
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Shelled corn is the term used to describe whole kernel corn that has been removed from the cob. It is harvested using a large combine machine that cuts the stalks, strips the cobs off the stalk, strips the husk off the ear and then separates the kernels off the cob and spits the chopped stalks and husks and cobs out the back of the machine. The corn is stored in a bin and regularly offloaded to a semi or gravity wagon. Ideally, the corn is left in the field on the stalk to dry to the correct percentage. If it is a wet year, the corn might have to be harvested, and then dried in large gas fired driers. In Illinois, the average corn yield is about 150 bushels per acre, but I don't think you could do it on your own as a do it yourself project.
Highbeam
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Dave- Do you know if those equivalence values for oil and such are based on btu content of the fuel alone, or do they include the typical efficency of the machine used to actually use those btus? I mean one bushel of corn shows to have as much energy as 3.5 gallons of diesel BUT by the time it is converted to heat the corn might provide less. The efficiency of a corn burner to a oil furnace is a huge part of the equation.
Those figures are great and many corn stoves can also burn pellets but not many pellet stoves can burn corn.
This is a huge and untapped market that can only increase the demand for our farmer's product.
Those figures are great and many corn stoves can also burn pellets but not many pellet stoves can burn corn.
This is a huge and untapped market that can only increase the demand for our farmer's product.
DaveNay
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</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Dave- Do you know if those equivalence values for oil and such are based on btu content of the fuel alone, or do they include the typical efficency of the machine used to actually use those btus? I mean one bushel of corn shows to have as much energy as 3.5 gallons of diesel BUT by the time it is converted to heat the corn might provide less. The efficiency of a corn burner to a oil furnace is a huge part of the equation.
Those figures are great and many corn stoves can also burn pellets but not many pellet stoves can burn corn.
This is a huge and untapped market that can only increase the demand for our farmer's product. )</font>
Those raw numbers I stated earlier are the total BTU available in the fuel, and not including efficiencies. The PDF I linked to earlier has more detail and expands the calculations to include efficiencies. All of the corn burners I have see are very high efficiency (>90%) and are direct vent exhaust (a sign of high efficiency). My oil furnace I am quite sure is in the 75%-80% range as it is not really a new unit.
Those figures are great and many corn stoves can also burn pellets but not many pellet stoves can burn corn.
This is a huge and untapped market that can only increase the demand for our farmer's product. )</font>
Those raw numbers I stated earlier are the total BTU available in the fuel, and not including efficiencies. The PDF I linked to earlier has more detail and expands the calculations to include efficiencies. All of the corn burners I have see are very high efficiency (>90%) and are direct vent exhaust (a sign of high efficiency). My oil furnace I am quite sure is in the 75%-80% range as it is not really a new unit.
Highbeam
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So it might even be better than it sounds. 90% is quite high efficiency for something as "crude" as a freestanding stove.
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Kevin, that would be my concern as well. A friend was buying a pellet stove recently and he told me that if I were to get one to buy a unit designed specifically for wood pellets or for corn. Not the combo unit. He had heard that the combos didn't work as well and switching back and forth didn't work out. Maybe something to look into. I hate rodents!!!!!
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Richard, Dave Nay Rat and others:
I have to jump into this discussion.
My wife and I have heated our farmhome with a Englander Pellet/Corn Stove for over 10 years. When our house was re-done this summer, the stove went in the backyard and then back in the "new" house on it's own brick floored hearth.
The stove has provided continuous trouble free heat with the exception of routine maintainence like cleaning and oiling the blowers and greasing the auger bearings yearly. The Englander has grease fittings on the bearings and oil cups on the blowers though I do vacuum out the fans too.
Our home is 2 stories and about 2400 square feet and I maintain the interior temperature at around 70 all winter long.
Amy puts in the pellets which we mix with shelled corn from our grain tank. One note about shelled corn is it has to be below 15% ambient moisture to burn. It will burn at higher moisture but will provide little heat output and will cause large clinkers. I tend to use a mixture of 30% corn and 70% pellets of which I prefer Lignetics over all others and I've tried them all over the years. I have even tried cherry pits but the pits while putting out much heat, get consumed rapidly so there is no advantage at all to them. The shelled corn must be CLEAN. Corn off the combine won't work in any corn or multifuel stove. The corn must have any cob and chaff removed or it will foul the burn pot and clinker. That's a big misconception about biofuel stoves.....you just go to a farmer and get a load of corn....it don't happen that way, I've tried that too. I made a seperator from hardware cloth of different mesh which I formed in a circular shape with an axle and hand crank. I run the corn through the seperator and the kernels fall through and the trash goes out the end. Vacuum seperators are commercially available that work with a shop vacuum but cost around $400.00.
We always have corn in the tanks for feed so I use that along with the pellets. When it gets really cold, I increase the corn to pellet ratio slightly to increase the heat. Our Englander is rated at 60K BTU and she runs every bit of that. I have it set up with a remote thermostat and when the thermostat isn't calling for heat, the stove idles at a low fire. When the t'stat calls for heat, she jumps to high fire and the blowers come on.
When we got our stove they were new to the market and now I see that you can get electric ignition. We never shut ours down except to vacuum the ash out about every 2 weeks. Ours runs continuously from November through April....it's running as I type this reply.
I run a 3" Pellet vent (Simpson Dura-Vent) into a 3"-4" cleanout tee and up the side of the house (outside) to over the top of the roof. I take the pipe apart every spring and run a patch of Scotchbrite through it with a stick and blow out the fly ash. Then I reassemble it for the next heating season. The cleanout Tee gets cleaned every month. The Tee has a removable bottom.
Our consumption of pellets has ranged from 5 tons in a year to 3 tons in a year depending on the severity of the winter and the quality of the pellets as well as the moisture content of the corn. Like I said before, I have tried all commercial brands and I personally prefer Lignetics.
This year we actually have no drafts, blown in insulation and real Pella windows along with new siding and roof and I pre bought 3 tons to agument the one ton I had left from last year. Pellets keep from year to year unlike corn. They come in plastic bags but must be protected from the weather. I suspect we will probably use 3 tons this year. 3 tons cost me around $500.00 at TSC in the late summer. I always try to get them when a "pre-buy sale" is on and I specify no tax farm use. That's a lot cheaper than propane which I have 1000 gallons of for the shop and the genset. Someday, I'll get another biofuel stove for my shop too.
All in all, my wife and I are very satisfied with our Englander. It's nice to sit around the fire (glass door) and toast your feet while reading a book.
In closing, I have run mine during winter storm power outages before we had our standby genset with my small Yamaha Inverter generator. The Englander only uses about 500 watts total for the blowers, auger motors and negative combustion fan. We still had enough juice for a few lights, however, with the genset I don't worry about that anymore.
I think I've covered all the finer points but if any of you have any questions please ask and I'll try to answer them. I had a biofuel stove longer than I've been cutting hay!!!!! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I have to jump into this discussion.
My wife and I have heated our farmhome with a Englander Pellet/Corn Stove for over 10 years. When our house was re-done this summer, the stove went in the backyard and then back in the "new" house on it's own brick floored hearth.
The stove has provided continuous trouble free heat with the exception of routine maintainence like cleaning and oiling the blowers and greasing the auger bearings yearly. The Englander has grease fittings on the bearings and oil cups on the blowers though I do vacuum out the fans too.
Our home is 2 stories and about 2400 square feet and I maintain the interior temperature at around 70 all winter long.
Amy puts in the pellets which we mix with shelled corn from our grain tank. One note about shelled corn is it has to be below 15% ambient moisture to burn. It will burn at higher moisture but will provide little heat output and will cause large clinkers. I tend to use a mixture of 30% corn and 70% pellets of which I prefer Lignetics over all others and I've tried them all over the years. I have even tried cherry pits but the pits while putting out much heat, get consumed rapidly so there is no advantage at all to them. The shelled corn must be CLEAN. Corn off the combine won't work in any corn or multifuel stove. The corn must have any cob and chaff removed or it will foul the burn pot and clinker. That's a big misconception about biofuel stoves.....you just go to a farmer and get a load of corn....it don't happen that way, I've tried that too. I made a seperator from hardware cloth of different mesh which I formed in a circular shape with an axle and hand crank. I run the corn through the seperator and the kernels fall through and the trash goes out the end. Vacuum seperators are commercially available that work with a shop vacuum but cost around $400.00.
We always have corn in the tanks for feed so I use that along with the pellets. When it gets really cold, I increase the corn to pellet ratio slightly to increase the heat. Our Englander is rated at 60K BTU and she runs every bit of that. I have it set up with a remote thermostat and when the thermostat isn't calling for heat, the stove idles at a low fire. When the t'stat calls for heat, she jumps to high fire and the blowers come on.
When we got our stove they were new to the market and now I see that you can get electric ignition. We never shut ours down except to vacuum the ash out about every 2 weeks. Ours runs continuously from November through April....it's running as I type this reply.
I run a 3" Pellet vent (Simpson Dura-Vent) into a 3"-4" cleanout tee and up the side of the house (outside) to over the top of the roof. I take the pipe apart every spring and run a patch of Scotchbrite through it with a stick and blow out the fly ash. Then I reassemble it for the next heating season. The cleanout Tee gets cleaned every month. The Tee has a removable bottom.
Our consumption of pellets has ranged from 5 tons in a year to 3 tons in a year depending on the severity of the winter and the quality of the pellets as well as the moisture content of the corn. Like I said before, I have tried all commercial brands and I personally prefer Lignetics.
This year we actually have no drafts, blown in insulation and real Pella windows along with new siding and roof and I pre bought 3 tons to agument the one ton I had left from last year. Pellets keep from year to year unlike corn. They come in plastic bags but must be protected from the weather. I suspect we will probably use 3 tons this year. 3 tons cost me around $500.00 at TSC in the late summer. I always try to get them when a "pre-buy sale" is on and I specify no tax farm use. That's a lot cheaper than propane which I have 1000 gallons of for the shop and the genset. Someday, I'll get another biofuel stove for my shop too.
All in all, my wife and I are very satisfied with our Englander. It's nice to sit around the fire (glass door) and toast your feet while reading a book.
In closing, I have run mine during winter storm power outages before we had our standby genset with my small Yamaha Inverter generator. The Englander only uses about 500 watts total for the blowers, auger motors and negative combustion fan. We still had enough juice for a few lights, however, with the genset I don't worry about that anymore.
I think I've covered all the finer points but if any of you have any questions please ask and I'll try to answer them. I had a biofuel stove longer than I've been cutting hay!!!!! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
OP
_RaT_
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Daryl, your alive, I figured you got rolled over by a hay wagon. Thanks for the post.
PS- Go Arnold!!!
PS- Go Arnold!!!
Highbeam
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Corn is sounding less appealing now. If you can't use the farmer's product as is, then where do you get clean, dry, shelled corn that can be fed directly? The bushel cost of the commodity is no longer a factor if a middle man and process bump up the cost by whatever they want.
That is great information about the corn burner.
That is great information about the corn burner.
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Highbeam:
Your local elevator or your local farmer/grower but you will still have to clean it (use my method described in the previous post). Be careful where you store it (corn absorbs moisture and attracts rodents), pellets don't.
Even with the fiddle factor added, it's still a real bargain in todays volitale energy market and YOU control your comfort without DEPLETING your wallet. Pellets or Corn or a mixture of both, it's a way of life with us in the winter months.
Again, I'd get a stove without all the fancy frills like automatic ignition and fancy castings. Our Englander cost us around $1200.00 over 10 years ago and has paid for itself many times over. They are a heavy (300 pounds) solidly built stove, but plainly built. I think their website is www.englanderstove.com. You can get the pellet pipe (vent type B pellet/corn) from www.ventingpipe.com. Their online store beats any local price on vent pipe, even TSC and they carry the complete Simpson DuraVent line.
I just went to Englander Stove Works website and I see they have a new pellet/corn stove in their lineup. If it's as good as my old unit, it's a winner for sure.
I'd recommend it. I've really put it through it's paces and it has never let me or my family down.
I also believe that TSC sells them though I bought mine elsewhere.
I have no affilitaion with either Englander or Simpson, I just know from expierience that they are excellent products.
Your local elevator or your local farmer/grower but you will still have to clean it (use my method described in the previous post). Be careful where you store it (corn absorbs moisture and attracts rodents), pellets don't.
Even with the fiddle factor added, it's still a real bargain in todays volitale energy market and YOU control your comfort without DEPLETING your wallet. Pellets or Corn or a mixture of both, it's a way of life with us in the winter months.
Again, I'd get a stove without all the fancy frills like automatic ignition and fancy castings. Our Englander cost us around $1200.00 over 10 years ago and has paid for itself many times over. They are a heavy (300 pounds) solidly built stove, but plainly built. I think their website is www.englanderstove.com. You can get the pellet pipe (vent type B pellet/corn) from www.ventingpipe.com. Their online store beats any local price on vent pipe, even TSC and they carry the complete Simpson DuraVent line.
I just went to Englander Stove Works website and I see they have a new pellet/corn stove in their lineup. If it's as good as my old unit, it's a winner for sure.
I'd recommend it. I've really put it through it's paces and it has never let me or my family down.
I also believe that TSC sells them though I bought mine elsewhere.
I have no affilitaion with either Englander or Simpson, I just know from expierience that they are excellent products.
Highbeam
Super Member
Holy criminese, those stoves are heavy. The new corn burner is 350 lbs and the coal burner is 610!
If the fiddle factor isn't too substantial then the corn being available at the local elevator is a major benefit. I am sure the fiddle factor is small in comparison to firewood.
If the fiddle factor isn't too substantial then the corn being available at the local elevator is a major benefit. I am sure the fiddle factor is small in comparison to firewood.
5030
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Highbeam:
Our Englander is made from 3/16" welded steel plate. The more mass, the better it holds the heat when it gets going. It takes two people to move it around. I forgot how heavy it was until I moved it outside prior to the remodeling in the spring and back in this fall.
When I bought the Englander I loked at (I believe if my memory serves me right, a Harmon??). It wasn't built as stout as the Englander though it was more asthetically pleasing. I'm not into asthetics, I'm into heat so I passed on it.
Our Englander is made from 3/16" welded steel plate. The more mass, the better it holds the heat when it gets going. It takes two people to move it around. I forgot how heavy it was until I moved it outside prior to the remodeling in the spring and back in this fall.
When I bought the Englander I loked at (I believe if my memory serves me right, a Harmon??). It wasn't built as stout as the Englander though it was more asthetically pleasing. I'm not into asthetics, I'm into heat so I passed on it.
