Help selecting a pellet stove.

heehaw · Nov 11, 2005

i buy whole corn in 50 pound bags to feed my critters: it "use" to be really clean, then about 8-10 years ago it started getting some trash in the bag, and now, well, lets just say when i toss out some corn to the ducks and geese, if the wind is blowing in your direction, the amount of "fine dust" will choke you. it would take a lot of cleaning to use this whole corn in a stove.
heehaw

5030 · Nov 11, 2005

I get my corn locally. We aren't row croppers, we grow forage but I have my choice of local farmers to buy from. I have 1400 bushel capacity in each tank, a Westfield 60" grain leg to load it in and a KillBros gravity wagon to pick it up with. I "batch" clean my corn, that is, in small quantities as I unload it into 5 gallon plastic pails to take it in to be burned. I have seen on the market, corn cleaners using the cyclone method and your shop vacuum that will clean large quantities but they are expensive.

Some years have more trash than others. It also depends on what brand of combine the corn was processed in and what condition the seperators are in.

My personal preference is corn combined with a Case Axial Flow combine, Gleaner second and JD last. However, I prefer bailing wheat straw that was run through a JD combine rather than an axial flow as the axial flow processes the material it tends to chop the straw finer and it's harder to bale, but that's another thread. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

kevincook · Nov 12, 2005

Daryl,

Do you have any trouble with rodents? How do you keep them out of the corn?

Thanks
Kevin

5030 · Nov 12, 2005

Kevin:

Our corn is in grain tanks (GSI) off the ground, actually on a concrete slab. The bottom of the tanks are cone shaped with a shutter plate at the exit. GSI has a bucket spout that is an acessory that I have on each tank for 5 gallon buckets. The corn we are going to use goes in 30 gallon plastic garbage cans with tight fitting lids and a concrete block on top.

Highbeam · Nov 12, 2005

Even in the nasty wet weather, does the corn stay dry? I have fond memories of cleaning moldy nasty grain out of the bottom of theose things where the auger housing was.

With a big ol' storage tank, you could get a big truck out to fill it up all at once. Cool.

5030 · Nov 12, 2005

Highbeam:

My GSI tanks have a cover that operates with a chain linkage from the ground. When closed, they seal well and there is a counterweight to keep the lid down. I fill mine with a 60' PTO driven Westfield grain leg.

One thing I do is when the tank is completely empty, I open the manhole on top, climb the ladder and take my pressure washer and clean it out. Then I leave the bottom shutter plate out and the manhole open for a few weeks so the interior is dry and clean. I sometimes get a little caking on the outside walls as a result of condensation but I never leave it in the tank and then refill it.

I have heard of big grain tanks where crews have had to go in and jackhammer the crust off the walls.

Tonight I read in the paper that the demand for pellet, pellet and corn combination and corn stoves is so great this year that manufacturers are weeks to even months behind in production. When I got my Englander over 10 years ago, I never thought they'd be as popular as they now are.

kevincook · Nov 13, 2005

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Corn, you mean like corn from the cob. Does it have a high energy content? I don't know if they sell corn fuel here. We grow lots of corn though. Perhaps it just does not get cold enough here to make it economical to do.

Yep. Whole kernel corn. As it comes right out of the field. It's called "shelled corn", and has to be dried to below 15% moisture content. (lower is even better). Can be bought direct from farmers for the cheapest price, or from grain elevators for a little markup.

This is a very quick comparison of different fuels:

1 BUSHEL OF SHELLED CORN = 5 GALLONS OF LP GAS
1 BUSHEL OF SHELLED CORN = 3.5 GALLONS OF FUEL OIL
1 BUSHEL OF SHELLED CORN = 140 Kwh OF ELECTRICITY
1 BUSHEL OF SHELLED CORN = 4.75 C.C.F. OF NATURAL GAS

A bushel of shelled corn for me is $1.60 and my fuel oil this year is about $2.80 per gallon, or $9.80 for the equivalent quantity of energy.

/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

This document has a nice chart with price guesstimates, just plug in your own dollars to get the real numbers. )

I just read that the US has over 4 billion bushels of excess corn production each year. That is equivalent to 14 billion gallons of fuel oil or 250 million barrels. We are using about 20 million barrels of oil per day in the USA so this works out to around 3% of our total oil consumption. It doesn't sound like a lot but I wonder how that would affect the price of oil. Maybe it would at least stabilize the price some if we where to actually use it.

Does anyone know how much more production of corn we could have if any? Are we producing as much corn as possible or do we have much land that is sitting idle? Where else on the planet could we grow billions of bushels of corn? I really like the fact that this is a renewable energy source. The crop can be harvested every 180 days. Are there parts of the world that could grow two crops per year?

Just thinking,
Kevin

5030 · Nov 13, 2005

Kevin:

If you read my previous posts, you will understand why you just can't buy corn from your farmer/neighbor. Besides, the price of $1.40 or $1.60 or whatever per bushel isn't the actual price paid to the farmer. You have to factor in contractual agreements, LDP and other variables.

Yes, hybrid corn is 180 days. Actually, due to genitcs, you can plant corn that will mature in less time or more time depending on factors such as weather and fertilizer needs. That brings us to a point. The price of fertilizer has at least doubled on a per acre basis in the last two years and corn is fertilizer intensive. You will see less corn planted in lieu of wheat and soybeans which take much less fertilizer for appreciable yeilds. This coupled with the increased interest in ethanol production and the building of ethanol production facilities will cause less non contracted corn to be available on the open market....in other words, corn that you as a consumer can buy to burn in your corn stove or biofuel stove if you prefer.

Corn is a good relatively cheap and renewable source of energy, but, as I stated in previous posts, you just can't go to your farmer/neighbor and buy a load of shelled corn and burn it. If they are a contracted grower, their product is spoken for. If they aren't, you aren't going to buy it for $1.40 or $1.60 or whatever. There are many other factors that control the price other than the price posted on the side of the elevator.

Everyone is searching for the cheap alternative to natural gas, propane and fuel oil. Every alternative energy source has it's pro's and cons. Corn as well as extruded recycled sawdust (pellet fuel) has it's advantages and disadvantages.

To20Chris · Nov 13, 2005

You'd have to look at the energy returned on energy invested. I belive if you look at how much oil you use to grow the corn for a given BTU output from a corn stove, you would find that you'd be better off just burning the oil.

Highbeam · Nov 13, 2005

That might be true from a global and long term perspective but for us, as consumers, the bottom line is the price per btu from corn compared to the price per btu from the other fuels today at the depot. What it takes to get the corn to market must be part of the purchase price. If someone is smart enough to cheaply produce btus then I'll buy them regardless of their profits/losses. Cost to produce vs. market cost is a problem for the producer and not the consumer, right?

Egon · Nov 14, 2005

( Cost to produce vs. market cost is a problem for the producer and not the consumer, right?
)

When the Farmers outlay exceeds his income and loans come due it may become everyones problem!

Egon

To20Chris · Nov 14, 2005

I was addressing the idea of corn replacing oil in general. On an idividual basis, whatever works. For instance, if we overproduce corn in a particular region, the price will be low, and probably some of it will end up going to waste. Waste material has already had the energy invested in it's production, so using it is essentially free. But you cannot scale that up to everyone.

I'm heating with wood, because I have it and it is "free", other than my labor, but we could not heat everyone's home that way.

Highbeam · Nov 14, 2005

If the farmer can't stay afloat he will stop growing, supply will go down, cost will go up, and farmers will grow it again. Being a farmer is not risk free and I believe this cycle has occured over and over through time. I only took one economics class so I may have something wrong.

If I burned corn and corn became really expensive then I would be on the market for another fuel. I will choose the cheapest one and see if the cost savings justify the switch. The livelihood of the producers is only important if I need the fuel cost to be stable for a long time.

This corn looks to qualify for the current cheapest fuel.

BrentB · Nov 15, 2005

Is there any odor when burning corn or pellets?

5030 · Nov 17, 2005

Brent:

Premium Pellet fuel is made from hardwood sawdust like oak and hickory so it smells like an oak fire burning. Corn smells, well, like corn burning, kind of a sweet smell. When you mix the two like I do, it smells more like oak than the sweet smell. You don't get any smoke, or very little. Most Pellet/Corn/Biofuel stoves are around 85% efficient.

The only thing you get is a fine ash in the stovepipe and in the stove itself. Corn will make a few clinkers. I let my stove go out about every 2 weeks and then I vacuum it out with my shop vac with a drywall bag inside. I clean the stovepipe every 3 months with the vacuum and I take it apart every spring and run a scotchbrite pad through the pipes. The pipes interlock together so you can take them apart. You must use pellet vent pipe. It's double wall, galvanized steel on the outside with a stainless liner inside seperated by an air gap.

MarkStewart · Nov 20, 2005

Hi, Does anyone know what the difference is between a corn burning pellet stove and one that just burns wood pellets? I've burned cherry pits in mine mixed with wood
pellets and it seemed to work ok.

5030 · Nov 21, 2005

The difference is in the burn pot and the vent pipe. Corn burners require a different vent pipe than corn/pellet burners (the one's specifically designed to burn both) have a different burn pot arrangement with an agitator to clear the pot of clinkers.

I tried cherry pits sometime ago. They seem to burn too fast though they do produce a lot of heat.

I was up to the TSC store yesterday. Pellets and stoves were flying off the shelf. I had to remind them that I had 3 pallets of pellets pre-paid.....not to sell themselves short or I would be very unhappy. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

heehaw · Nov 21, 2005

so where do you get cherry pits?? i've never heard of that one??
heehaw

Highbeam · Nov 21, 2005

The maraschino cherry factory or some other cannery I would think. There's got to be a machine somewhere pushing pits out of fruit and the pile needs to be dried. I bet that makes a cool smell when burning though.

MarkStewart · Nov 21, 2005

They had 40lb bags at TSC, probablysold out by now though. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif Thanks for the info on the corn stoves.
Everywhere I've looked in the Northeast seems to be sold out, or when they do get a shipment of pellets they are sold out the same day...