HELP RTV Electrical Problem

ajdillon · Sep 3, 2005

Help! I installed front and rear work lights on my RTV with a single pole double throw , center off switch, so I could turn on the front lights or the back lights, but not both at the same time, because I wasn't sure how much current both sets would draw. It worked just fine. Next I decided that I needed some spot light capability and, based on a suggestion from this board, I installed a GoLight spot. It has it's own relay and I merely hooked it up to a battery voltage I got by running a separate 4 circuit box off the cigarette lighter supply. I use that circuit box to run the feeder, a small fan I put in, and the spot light. They all work just fine. Now suddenly every time I turn on the worklights, front or back, the engine dies very suddenly. The lights also won't work when the engine is off and the ignition is on. The plug that has the output of the worklight relay (yellow/red wire) used to output 12 volts when the ignition was turned on or when the engine was running. Now I get nothing when the ignition is turned on and only 6 volts when the engine is running. I would appreciate any hints about where I went wrong.
Thanks in advance
AJDillon

ajdillon · Sep 3, 2005

One additional clue, I just jumped a battery cable up to both sets of work lights and they work fine, so that wiring appears not to be the problem.
AJDillon

ajdillon · Sep 3, 2005

I'm getting in deeper all the time. I jumped the accessory relay to see if that would get me 12 volts at the work light plug, but no joy. Now the engine won't stop even if you take the key out. I have to manually push the fuel (engine stop) solenoid to get it to shut down, even with the relay back in the circuit. Aren't there any electrical geniuses out there?
AJDillon

kennyd · Sep 4, 2005

It sounds like a possible grounding problem, like somthing is seeking a ground through a light bulb or very poor connection.

Are you using a common ground point for all these things, or just a wire to something metal wherever?

On these newer vehicles, (cars, trucks, boats, whatever) it is harder to find a GOOD ground with all the use of plastics, composites and vibration isolators.

CHECK THOSE GROUNDS! Bad ones can do crazy things! Ask anyone who has tried to diagnose trailer light problems...

bczoom · Sep 4, 2005

AJ,

Before we jump in real deep, there's a 5 amp fuse that if blown can cause the symptoms you're experiencing. I believe it'll be in fuse spot #9. It controls the panel as well as the engine stop control. Sounds like you have too much on that circuit.

The only place I can think of that should have 6 volts is the (c) terminal on the starter.

Brian

ajdillon · Sep 4, 2005

Thanks Brian (or should I say "Brain"?) Changing that fuse seems to have solved some of the problems. Engine shuts down now when you turn the key off. Spot light and worklights are both working and, since I switched the ground on the front worklight from the cigarette lighter ground to a chassis ground, turning on the worklights and the spot at the same time doesn't kill the engine. I'm still a little worried about the alternator. Before all of this mess across the battery measured 14 volts when the engine was running. Now it's only 12.3 volts. Should I take the big red wire off the alternator and measure its output when the engine is running?
Thanks again
AJDillon

ajdillon · Sep 4, 2005

BTW the warning light (electrical charge) is not on when the engine is running, but it doesn't come on when the ignition is turned on. before the engine starts. I don't remember whether or not it is supposed to be on before the key gets turned all the way to start.
AJDillon

bczoom · Sep 4, 2005

Glad it was as simple as a fuse (and changing the ground).

( I'm still a little worried about the alternator.) Are you thinking something in the alternator is bad?

When you tested your alternator, did you have it under load (all the lights on)? If you don't have a good load, or the battery is fully charged, you won't get a good reading.

( Should I take the big red wire off the alternator and measure its output when the engine is running?) Yes.

To test:
Start the engine.
Disconnect the cable on the + side of the battery.
You might need a helper for this but you need to get the engine RPM's up and keep it there.
Turn on all the lights (or whatever) to get a good electrical load.
Using a volt meter from the cable to a chassis ground, check the voltage. You should have between 14 and 15 volts.

Brian

bczoom · Sep 4, 2005

( BTW the warning light (electrical charge) is not on when the engine is running, but it doesn't come on when the ignition is turned on. before the engine starts. I don't remember whether or not it is supposed to be on before the key gets turned all the way to start.
AJDillon )

Yes. That's one that does come on when you turn initially turn the key to the ON position but go off as soon as you start it.

If it doesn't, give me a couple symptoms so we have a starting point. Are the other lights coming on? After replacing that fuse, do you still have that problem?

bczoom · Sep 4, 2005

Something else to consider for the future.

I've added 11 lights (not counting the 4 OEM) as well as a stereo, 320w amp... Although I try not to run everything at once, just a few is all it's going to take to overwhelm the alternator before you start pulling juice off the battery. I also use the lights/stereo when the engine isn't running (like last night sitting beside the bonfire with the kids. I had 1 55w light and the stereo/amp running for a couple hours off the battery).

I found out quickly that the OEM battery isn't going to like it and poops out. I've since replaced the OEM battery with the largest deep cycle marine battery I could fit. Haven't had a problem since.

Brian

ajdillon · Sep 4, 2005

I tested the alternator, started the engine, pulled off the positive battery cable and put an electrical load on the system. Zero volts on the red cable after the battery is disconnected, at rpms, under load. I guess sometime during the problem something got fried in the alternator. Right now everything is working fine, except the alternator. Worklights and spot lights are working fine, even with both on at the same time. No more sudden stops of the engine when the lights are turned on. I guess switching the ground for the front work lights did the trick for the intial problem. In the old days there used to be a separate voltage regulator mounted on the alternator, but it doesn't look like it now. The alternator looks like it is all mechanical parts that shouldn't have a problem. At this point, with everything else working fine I'm tempted to just load it up and take it to the dealership, unless you have another magic suggestion.
Thanks for all of your help.
AJDillon

bczoom · Sep 4, 2005

( I tested the alternator, started the engine, pulled off the positive battery cable and put an electrical load on the system. Zero volts on the red cable after the battery is disconnected, at rpms, under load. I guess sometime during the problem something got fried in the alternator.

At this point, with everything else working fine I'm tempted to just load it up and take it to the dealership, unless you have another magic suggestion.
Thanks for all of your help.
AJDillon )

Don't pack it up yet... It's a bit late and I can't dig into it now, but I think we can get it fixed. My initial though is it may not be a problem with the alternator itself. Once you disconnected the battery cable, something had to be supplying juice to run everything.

Check your PM.
Brian

bczoom · Sep 5, 2005

( In the old days there used to be a separate voltage regulator mounted on the alternator, but it doesn't look like it now.)

The voltage regulator is an IC design and built inside the alternator.

OK... back to your current (no pun intended) problem.

Please check the 15 amp fuse in slot 8 next as it relates to the alternator. It also controls the brake lights if you have someone that can check the lights while you step on the pedal. If that one is OK, pull the 60 amp slow-blow fuse in slot 2. I don't think it has a sight window so you may need to test with an ohmmeter.

Brian

ajdillon · Sep 5, 2005

You are the man, that fuse was blown and replacing it got me back up to 14 volts at the battery. BUT, turning on the worklights blew the 5 amp panel fuse again. The work lights worked just fine when I initially installed them. The rear lights are powered off the red/yellow accessory wire on the accessory plug, grounded to the black wire in that plug. The power line goes under the cab to the center pole of my two way switch, with one side of the switch returning to the lights in back. The front lights get power from the other side of the switch (only front or only rear lights get power) with a chassis ground for the front lights. I have also tapped into the 10 amp circuit for the cigarette lighter, put a separate 4 circuit mini blade circuit box under the front hood. I use it to power my Bumper Buddy feeder, a small 12 volt fan and my new GoLight spotlight, each through a separate smaller fuse. They get their grounds from the cigarette lighter ground, extended up to a little terminal strip I mounted on top of my glove box. They all work perfectly. I'm thinking maybe I reroute the ground for the front lights to the black wire in the accessory plug and see if that solves the problem before I run out of fuses ;-)
AJDillon

ajdillon · Sep 5, 2005

Just tested my theory set forth in the last post and VICTORY!!!
Switching the ground for the front lights back to the same ground used for the rear lights solves the blown 5 amp panel fuse problems. KennyD sollved that part of the problem and Brian got me through the rest of it. I am really glad I found this board, everyone has been a big help, with my selection of the Kubota, accessories and now problem solving. Thanks for everything. When I get it all buttoned up I'll post a few pictures so you guys can see the monster you created.
AJDillon

bczoom · Sep 5, 2005

Glad it was just the fuse (again...).

May I propose you don't connect to anything under the dash and home run power all the way from the battery?

power = current * voltage.

55w (1 light) = 4.5 amp * 12. A 5 amp fuse will probably continue to blow. 2 lights + any one other thing may blow a 10 amp.

For alternatives to the 5 and 10 amp, and if you don't want to pull a wire from the battery, you may want to look at tapping into fuse # 12 (15 amp for a work light) but honestly don't know where the wiring ends to tap into that one.

I also thought I saw something in a wiring diagram where wiring is pulled for a front winch. Can't find it again and I don't see anything in the fuse box for that cable (if it exists).

I ran some heavy wire directly from the battery through a 50 amp fuse I installed then ran a new block of fuses for everything I installed. Haven't blown anything.

Brian

ajdillon · Sep 5, 2005

Thanks again. The worklights (front and rear) are both powered off the accessory plug in the rear that powers up with the installed relay. Now that they have the same ground everything seems to be working fine. The feeder, small fan and spot light are working fine off the cigarette lighter circuit. It's fused at 10 amps and the only thing on there that pulls any current at all is the spot light. I have the feeder and fan fused at 5 amps and the spot at 10 amps. The spot pulls 5.5 amps according to GoLight. It is really neat. You wire it directly to a battery or ignition source. The switching relay is built into the light itself. Then you turn it on and off and control it with a wireless control that mounts on the dash. It will rotate 370 degrees and tilt 135 degrees. It feels like RoboCop when it swivels around. You can also buy an infrared lens cover for it that might be handy for varmint hunters.
Again, thanks for all of your help.
If you ever get to Texas the first 5 or 6 are on me.
AJDillon

bczoom · Sep 5, 2005

Andrew,

Glad we got you all fixed up. That's what these forums are for. In the future, maybe you'll have an opportunity to reciprocate. If not, I'll take you up on your offer of adult beverages next time I'm in TX.

Brian