Help Me Design/ Build a Shop

[dstig1]

Well, not to split hairs, but you didn't actually ask a question, so what are you looking for help with?

Others have given some general advice on which type of building and such. If you are looking for stick frame, around here Menards has a service that will design the building for you and give you a full material take off list. I think they charge but credit it back if you buy the material package from them. I think Menards reaches to Arkansas but they aren't nationwide. Other lumberyards will likely have similar operations. That takes the guesswork out of the engineering of it for you.

A one man shop doesn't need a huge amount of power. You won't be running the welder and the milling machine at the same time. You can total up the draw of the things that can run on their own and add the largest intermittent draw. For example the compressor + HVAC + lights, and then add the welder or milling machine.

I agree to a point, but I can have running the compressor, lights, heat(or possibly AC where the OP is), dust collector, and wide belt sander all at once and those are all on 30 or 40A 240 circuits, except the lights & heat (not that they draw full amps). A 200A service has the advantages of max number of breaker spaces available, which is nice given the 240v ones take 2 spots and you can end up with a number of them. In my case we had the power co drop "400A" service to the site and I put a 200A panel in the house and another in the shop. the 400A is in air quotes as they call it that but it is actually 320A. No idea why they do that, but it has worked perfectly for me.

Another piece of general advice would be that if you think you might want to expand later on, make sure to set up the shop with open space at a gable end which will be the easiest to tack on more building if you want to later.

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

A few thoughts. When I had my garage built I went 2 story and so glad I did. I would price check to see. You have to have roof & floor, 2nd story wasn't all that much. I installed that myself with a helper. 2x8s with 3/4 tongue & groove plywood. I'd actually consider 3 story!
I have a separate wood shop. If I had that in garage I'd want a vacuum system for wood and walled off for no dust.
If you're ever going to insulate now's the time.
My bathroom has shower and laundry room through another door which is fantastic. A while back house had drain problems but we had garage which is completely separate septic system which was great. Today I used shop washing machine for rugs we wouldn't wash in home washer.
My propane furnace is separated from rest of garage by steel wall & door.
My garage is 250 ft. from house...I wouldn't want it close.
You can't have enough outlets.
I like a couple workbenches close to walk in door, laundry sink and wash tank at end. So nice carry something in able to work on it right there, wash parts, hands.
I like these plastic storage boxes you can see what's in them, dollar store sells them. I made shelves to fit, for things I use all the time hardware, etc.
Shelves made for battery tools & chargers.
Bins for pipe & metal.
Best of all (sounds crazy) a separate small garage close to main building. One car (truck) it's about 34x16. Short workbench along back wall, insulated easy to heat, one walk in, one electric garage door. All walls pegboard. Great for oil changes and service car, tractor, truck.
I plumbed garage for air, couplers every 20 ft.
Panel box near walk in door and outlets below for 240v welders (close so no voltage drop and easy to weld outside if I want).
I ran everything in metal conduit.

 

[LittleBittyBigJohn]

Pulling the power from the house is probably not a good idea. You are probably going to have 200 amp service at the house. How much can you spare to send to the barn? How much power do you need in the barn? If you are going to have things like a welder and/or large compressor you will need more power. Better option would be separate meter from the pole.

I'm running the service from the road to the build site at 320/400A. Apparently there is no availability on 320A panels right now so I'll most likely be forced to run 200A to my house. I have a friend with a similar house and shop to what I'm planning. He ran a 200A to his house and a 100A sub panel from his house to his shop and has had great luck. He has been one of my mentors at work and I trust what he says. It would be rare to be pulling lots of amps in the house and in the shop at the same time. In the summer the AC will be the biggest draw in the house and it should run on 30A, I can't weld and run a table saw at the same time so I shouldn't have more than 30A running at any given time in the shop.

If that doesn't work I will have expansion availability for another meter pretty easily, I just don't want to add that extra bill if I don't have to.

 

[LittleBittyBigJohn]

Well, not to split hairs, but you didn't actually ask a question, so what are you looking for help with?

Split away, that's why we are here. I found that open ended questions end up with answers that I wouldn't even know to ask.

Let's go with specific questions on concrete.

Post frame with either wet-set anchors for the posts or drilled in anchors. how would my slab need to be constructed for this? I know with post-in-ground you can just pour a monolithic slab with no footing after the erection, easiest and cheepest.

How would the slab need to be built to support stick built construction?

 

[Doorman63]

If you go the pole barn route……

Use this style of base after concrete

 

[EddieWalker]

The common misconception that poles will rot out in the ground isn't true. I understand that wood posts in the ground, can, and have rotted out, but not when they have proper drainage. Usually the rot is from a fence post, or unprotected building with an exposed wall, or massive run off from the roof that is splashing, and eroding the soil at the post. As long as you have good drainage, and you keep your posts in the ground dry, they will last a hundred years or more.

Wood posts in the ground with purlins on the walls and wood trusses for the roof is the most cost effective, cheapest way, to build a structure. Besides a huge savings in what it costs to build, wood posts in the ground make the building more secure, and stronger then stick framing, or posts attached to the surface of a concrete pad. The most obvious advantages are the resistance to racking, and uplift from a storm. Another plus for building with poles in the ground is how simple it is to frame it up. Set posts in a straight line, attach purlins, and your walls are done.

Stick framing will cost a lot more in materials, but if you are framing the interior walls, you are spending that money anyway. The advantage to stick framing is in finishing the interior walls. One person can easily frame a building, but it's time consuming.

 

[DaBear3428]

Well, not to split hairs, but you didn't actually ask a question, so what are you looking for help with?

Others have given some general advice on which type of building and such. If you are looking for stick frame, around here Menards has a service that will design the building for you and give you a full material take off list. I think they charge but credit it back if you buy the material package from them. I think Menards reaches to Arkansas but they aren't nationwide. Other lumberyards will likely have similar operations. That takes the guesswork out of the engineering of it for you.


I agree to a point, but I can have running the compressor, lights, heat(or possibly AC where the OP is), dust collector, and wide belt sander all at once and those are all on 30 or 40A 240 circuits, except the lights & heat (not that they draw full amps). A 200A service has the advantages of max number of breaker spaces available, which is nice given the 240v ones take 2 spots and you can end up with a number of them. In my case we had the power co drop "400A" service to the site and I put a 200A panel in the house and another in the shop. the 400A is in air quotes as they call it that but it is actually 320A. No idea why they do that, but it has worked perfectly for me.

Another piece of general advice would be that if you think you might want to expand later on, make sure to set up the shop with open space at a gable end which will be the easiest to tack on more building if you want to later.

320 amp is 400amp breaker times the 80% factor so 400 X .8 = 320 most circuit breakers are only rated for 80% continuous unless you pay extra.

 

[DaBear3428]

The common misconception that poles will rot out in the ground isn't true. I understand that wood posts in the ground, can, and have rotted out, but not when they have proper drainage. Usually the rot is from a fence post, or unprotected building with an exposed wall, or massive run off from the roof that is splashing, and eroding the soil at the post. As long as you have good drainage, and you keep your posts in the ground dry, they will last a hundred years or more.

Wood posts in the ground with purlins on the walls and wood trusses for the roof is the most cost effective, cheapest way, to build a structure. Besides a huge savings in what it costs to build, wood posts in the ground make the building more secure, and stronger then stick framing, or posts attached to the surface of a concrete pad. The most obvious advantages are the resistance to racking, and uplift from a storm. Another plus for building with poles in the ground is how simple it is to frame it up. Set posts in a straight line, attach purlins, and your walls are done.

Stick framing will cost a lot more in materials, but if you are framing the interior walls, you are spending that money anyway. The advantage to stick framing is in finishing the interior walls. One person can easily frame a building, but it's time consuming.

posts in the ground in my area don't rot, the termites eat them, even treated posts. I have a lot of old fence posts that i'm replacing right now. i looked at pole barn construction but it is tuff in my area to keep the treatments for below grade wood up to be 100% sure that the termites will not get them and as you observed the below grade part of the pole barn construction caries a lot of the strength. otherwise i like pole barn construction other than it is a pain to finish out due to the large columns.

 

[DaBear3428]

I'm running the service from the road to the build site at 320/400A. Apparently there is no availability on 320A panels right now so I'll most likely be forced to run 200A to my house. I have a friend with a similar house and shop to what I'm planning. He ran a 200A to his house and a 100A sub panel from his house to his shop and has had great luck. He has been one of my mentors at work and I trust what he says. It would be rare to be pulling lots of amps in the house and in the shop at the same time. In the summer the AC will be the biggest draw in the house and it should run on 30A, I can't weld and run a table saw at the same time so I shouldn't have more than 30A running at any given time in the shop.

If that doesn't work I will have expansion availability for another meter pretty easily, I just don't want to add that extra bill if I don't have to.

most likely you are correct and 100 amps for the shop with 200a - shop load for the house will be fine but it depends on what you are running at the same time as well as what is going on in the house at the same time. someone using the stove/ oven while some one is taking a shower can draw a lot of power with ac/heat on top of that.
also circuit breakers don't just trip when hit 201 amps for a few min they will take 10 min or so at 230 amps (more current less time) but on the other side unless they are 100% rated and most are not, that 200 amp breaker will trip at 80% or 160 amp after 4 hours continuous load (give or take).

as i said before you most likely will not have a problem with your load.

 

[DaBear3428]

Split away, that's why we are here. I found that open ended questions end up with answers that I wouldn't even know to ask.

Let's go with specific questions on concrete.

Post frame with either wet-set anchors for the posts or drilled in anchors. how would my slab need to be constructed for this? I know with post-in-ground you can just pour a monolithic slab with no footing after the erection, easiest and cheepest.

How would the slab need to be built to support stick built construction?

i had the same problem with 400 amp panels and ended up doing a 200a service for the shop, later i will look at upgrading my house service to 400 amp and sub feeding my shop. the charges to up grade my 200 amp to 400a on the existing service was 1/2 the cost of a new 200a service from my utility Co, but the cost of 400 amp rated panels was crazy.