Heat pump hot water heaters?

[Looking4new]

Has anybody here had anything to do with heat-pump hot water heaters?
A link to what I am looking at....8 page pdf file
http://www.prostar-mechanical.com/brochure/GeoSpring%20hybrid%20water%20heater.pdf

Do they work more efficiently than standard hot water heaters?
I am on a well.
My water temperature coming into the house is 45*F.
Am I going to waste water to save on the hydro bill?

My basement/cellar stays at about 60* F all the time.

Are they worth the almost 4 times the price of a standard water heater?

More questions to follow after I think them up.

 

[techman]

They are known as hybrid HWH, and now the only type one can buy in the US for any tank over 50 gallons. They are up to 4 times more efficient than a standard heater element design. They usually have a resistive element for fast recovery, but only one element. The things to consider. One is that in a cellar, the unit will blow a lot of cold air, potentially cooling the area. The other issue is life. Most tanks fail due to corrosion. The hybrids are also a steel tank that will eventually corrode as well. The average life of a heater is under 10 years, and the payback from energy savings can be an issue if corrosion kills the tank before you recoup your investment.

paul

 

[Looking4new]

They are known as hybrid HWH, and now the only type one can buy in the US for any tank over 50 gallons. They are up to 4 times more efficient than a standard heater element design. They usually have a resistive element for fast recovery, but only one element. The things to consider. One is that in a cellar, the unit will blow a lot of cold air, potentially cooling the area. The other issue is life. Most tanks fail due to corrosion. The hybrids are also a steel tank that will eventually corrode as well. The average life of a heater is under 10 years, and the payback from energy savings can be an issue if corrosion kills the tank before you recoup your investment.

paul

The tank in the link is the only tank I am looking at and it is porcelain lined with anodes.
Part of this link is because my electric company is putting on a promotion for these things.
My goals are;
(1) lower the electric costs and
(2) have hot water all the time rather than just on the weekends when the electric costs are cheaper.
(3) I don't want to waste my water out of my well just to save $$ on the hydro bill.

 

[haroldy]

I have a 60 gallon tank with a timer so only is on when hydro has cheaper rate... with 2 of us we never run out of water

 

[Rock knocker]

They are known as hybrid HWH, and now the only type one can buy in the US for any tank over 50 gallons.

Not correct

 

[LD1]

They use about 3-4x less electricity.

Weather it's beneficial is impossible to determine.

1. You need to know how much you currently spend.
2. Need to know the cost difference.
3. Then you can calculate a payback period. If over 10years, I would not consider it.

They make things you can wire up that will moniter the heaters consumption over days or a month. My electric company loans them out. You'd be best served to get your hands on one of them, find out how many kwh you use in an average month. Figure in your average electric rage and the cost difference of the heaters and arrive at a payback time

 

[OldMcDonald]

I am always concerned about noise when apliances use fans. I see the spec says 58dbA average. What does "average" mean? There are a wide range of settings and no doubt some will be quite quiet. That also means some will be quite noisy. What is the max level?

 

[Looking4new]

It is probably no louder than my washing machine which sounds like a thrashing machine. I can live with the noise, (turn the stereo up a notch) if I can lower my electricity bill and get 24 hour a day/7days a week hot water.

I am truly concerned about reliability. My current hot water tank (electric) is 15 years old and other than draining the sludge out of the bottom every spring that is all I do with it.

 

[buickanddeere]

I've been thinking about one of those for here. Although three waterbuffalo that empty the 60 gallon tank every morning should be moved out by the time the HP heater would break even.
Currently saving $35-40 a month just by using a timer to energize the heater only during the lowest rates.

 

[MarkF48]

I looked into these about 6 years ago and was finding people were having a lot of issues with reliability. I was thinking when I read this thread that maybe quality had improved over time, but looking at Amazon customer reviews I'm not so sure.......
Amazon.com: Customer Reviews: GE GeoSpring Hybrid Water Heater GEH5DNSRSA

Perhaps another manufacturer might be doing better.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

I have one. Very efficient, when working. Mine failed a few yrs ago, out of warrenty, but they fixed it free. a known defect.
Has now failed again, i have not called to see if they will fix again. One of the coils corroded and it lost the freon.
Mine is in basement, helps dehumidify the basement.

When first installed saw a definite reduction in electric usage.

 

[Looking4new]

I looked into these about 6 years ago and was finding people were having a lot of issues with reliability. I was thinking when I read this thread that maybe quality had improved over time, but looking at Amazon customer reviews I'm not so sure.......
Amazon.com: Customer Reviews: GE GeoSpring Hybrid Water Heater GEH5DNSRSA

Perhaps another manufacturer might be doing better.

I gave up on the GE heater after reading 3 pages of customer reviews where GE left people stranded with no hot water. My other option is Voltex, sold by A.O.Smith.Voltex(R) Hybrid Electric Heat Pump 66-Gallon Water Heater | A. O. Smith Water Heaters
they are an American company with an outlet in Canada, about 300 miles from me.

 

[k0ua]

I have one. Very efficient, when working. Mine failed a few yrs ago, out of warrenty, but they fixed it free. a known defect.
Has now failed again, i have not called to see if they will fix again. One of the coils corroded and it lost the freon.
Mine is in basement, helps dehumidify the basement.

When first installed saw a definite reduction in electric usage.

Apparently a problem is there is a plastic foam that is in contact with the coils and when it gets moist it forms an acid which eats into the coil causing a freon leak. Apparently they are all defective and all will fail.

 

[techman]

Not correct

http://www.phccweb.org/NewsPublication/content.cfm?ItemNumber=13250&ewebToken={token}&Site=PHCC

Paul

 

[IXLR8]

The question I have is, if these hybrid water heaters are inside the home, and they take heat from the air and put it in the water to heat the water. Where does the heat come from to reheat the air?? These may be 60% more efficient at heating the water, but how much does it cost to run your heating system to replace the heat these water heaters removed to heat the water??? Unless these water heaters are outside... you can't get something for nothing.

 

[Looking4new]

The question I have is, if these hybrid water heaters are inside the home, and they take heat from the air and put it in the water to heat the water. Where does the heat come from to reheat the air?? These may be 60% more efficient at heating the water, but how much does it cost to run your heating system to replace the heat these water heaters removed to heat the water??? Unless these water heaters are outside... you can't get something for nothing.

In winter we gotta heat the basement/cellar anyway in order to keep the floors upstairs warm. (Warm feet, warm body)
Summertime we don't bother heating anything. The basement acts as my air conditioning in summer. (60-70F)

 

[buckeyefarmer]

Summertime they are great, winter they do suck heat from your house.

 

[LD1]

Wonder if you could plumb something like a dryer vent to let the unit blow the cold air outside in the winter, and then allow it to blow cold air inside in the summer.

Have often though of unhooking the dryer vent and let it blow in the house in the winter instead of outside. Better than wasting the heat, and help put humidity back in the house as with wood heat, 20-25% isnt uncommon.

But the waterheater as is, is no different than a fridge or freezer. just reverse. So I guess you could look at it as the compressor on the water heater offsets the compressor on the fridge.....hm..........wonder if anyone has though about 1 compressor for both? I know it would require some longer linesets, but the fridge wants cold...the waterheater wastes cold. The water heater wants hot, the fridge wastes hot......just thinking out loud.

 

[Looking4new]

You do NOT want your electric dryer venting into the house. It goes without saying (but I will say it anyway) DO NOT vent the gas dryer into the house. Carbon monoxide is the reason. Dryer lint is extremely flammable.

 

[bobmisi]

I looked at the heat pump water heaters for our new garage with living space above and decided it would suck all the heat out of the garage in the winter, and rise the risk of pipes freezing, plus the cost was high. The garage is built into a bank and stays 45 degrees all winter, seems like no matter if its 20 above or 15 below. We went with an on demand water heater, and after one year we are very happy with it. It only makes hot water when you need it, and it makes 4.5 gallons per minute with the incoming water temp of 45 degrees. Uses very little propane to supply an endless stream of water.