Hay pricing

[Grateful11]

$95 for a round bale is insane. They're going for $45-60 for good grass, or haylage around here. You're right though, the drought has been really hard on the west coast as well. Hopefully we can get back on track this coming winter.

It is insane for sure. In the last 9 days we've had about 9" of rain so we're pretty much back to average on our rainfall. Expecting some more tonight and tomorrow. I really feel for the folks in SC, man are they getting hammered.

 

[LukeD]

Down here, common grass is $3 in the field. Hybrid bermuda is $4.5-$6. My biggest expense is labor. 10 yrs ago, you could get help pretty cheap. But now , if I don't pay $10/hr, I'll never see the same worker twice! Some people may claim that it's the cost of diesel. But in actually, it's the cost of labor, and the cost of equipment and parts. Inflation.

 

[CDennyRun]

Down here, common grass is $3 in the field. Hybrid bermuda is $4.5-$6. My biggest expense is labor. 10 yrs ago, you could get help pretty cheap. But now , if I don't pay $10/hr, I'll never see the same worker twice! Some people may claim that it's the cost of diesel. But in actually, it's the cost of labor, and the cost of equipment and parts. Inflation.

This totally makes sense. It's a shame it has to be that way. $10hr is quite a bit to ask for stacking bales. I don't think I've ever been paid money for being a hand. I've done it most of the time for free or for hay.

$3 for common grass is outstanding. I wish I was close by!

 

[Jerry/MT]

Here in western Montana the drought has cut grass hay production by ~ 40%. I generally buy 10-15 T of alfalfa/grass to supplement my own hay. This year I had to buy 40T and I could find no hay to buy locally. I networked with some friends and ended up buying 40T of first cutting alfalfa/grass and had it trucked up from the Bitterroot Valley for a total cost of $165/T.

Some of the cost models I've seen in this thread are unrealistic. Initial cost, equipment depreciation and maintenance costs are big factors in producing hay as well as land taxes, fertilizer, weed control, pumping cost and Project O&M on irrigated land, etc It never penciled out for me to buy hay equipment to make hay as long as I could have someone custom hay for me. Custom mow, rake,& bale charges for me were ~$44/T for net wrapped round bales. That doesn't include the other non- baling costs a that I mentioned earlier. You guys that make small bales have even higher costs/T because you either need to harrowbed the hay or pick it up off the fields. You actual mow rake and bale costs would probably closer to $50/T.And I'm not talking about any return to labor and management!

This year I spent ~$17,000 for a new rake, a new mower and the used round baler because I couldn't find anybody who would cut my hay. (The used equipment market here is Montana is a bad place to find equipment . It's plum wore out before anybody sells anything.) Realistically looking at total production costs it is probably somewhere around $100/T for fertilized, low weed, irrigated baled hay in Western Montana. With the loss in production we had with drought, the cost per ton was ~40 % higher because of the loss of production.

If you're charging $2-$3/bale for a 50 lb bale that's $80-$120/T. If you have no water charges, pumping cost, fertilizer, herbicide application, taxes, etc costs, that leaves you with a $30 -$70/T return for depreciation, and return to labor and management. If you have those other costs, some of which you will have, your returns will be less.

I'm just small time rancher but I'd like to at least break even and cover my costs .

 

[sd455dan]

aczlan: Seems like you have a really good deal going on there. That pricing is pretty reasonable. We have one hay guy that charges us $4 a bale, but the supply is so limited, that you really have to jump to get it. The bales are banana shaped, and loose, but the hay is good. The guy is really flakey too. Hence the original reason I plan on haying myself. It's this, or $8+ a bale!

Seems that our area was hard hit with high temps and far below normal rain fall this year.
The hay production locally was only about 45%-55% of the last few years average.


Had to buy from a local farmer who had 3x4x8 square orchard grass bales imported from Canada this year.
Worked out to about $ 93 a bale with a weighed minimum weight of 1080#s

Even my 84 year old mom is having hay brought in from out of town in the large squares- instead of her long time small bale supplier.
Actually should be here tomorrow and they will be Timothy @ $ 125 per bale with a weight of 1200#


This is the first year in over 20 that her normal supplier had to outsource her own hay supply...

Glad my tractor can lift them with the grapple and actually a lot less work for me than hand stacking those small bales. so the news isn't all bad

 

[CDennyRun]

Seems that our area was hard hit with high temps and far below normal rain fall this year.
The hay production locally was only about 45% of the last few years average.
Had to buy from a local farmer who had 3x4x8 square orchard grass bales imported from Canada this year. Worked out to about $ 93 a bale with a weighed minimum weight of 1080#s even my 84 year old mom is having hay brought in from out of town in the large squares-actually should be here tomorrow and they will be Timothy @ $ 125 per bale with a weight of 1200#

Glad my tractor can lift them with the grapple and actually a lot less work for me than hand stacking those small bales. so the news isn't all bad

It might be worth it for you to get yours trucked from my area. Large square bales are about $55-60 for good Timothy/orchard grass and so on. If you want, I might be able to get you some contact info.

 

[sd455dan]

It might be worth it for you to get yours trucked from my area. Large square bales are about $55-60 for good Timothy/orchard grass and so on. If you want, I might be able to get you some contact info.

Thanks for the offer-I do appreciate it- but we have ours in, and mom has already made the deal for hers this year. her price did include delivery.
The main problem with my (horse girls) is they both had to inspect the hay before agreeing to buy, so I just do the moving/ stacking- that way it's not my (fault) if the hay is not up to their standards. My sister gets hers from just outside Spokane and gets very good pricing- but last year there was Bracken Fern in it and someone had go through it by hand before it could be fed.

For me it is worth it to let the ladies do the hay sourcing/ buying- I get in less trouble that way:laughing: Hopefully next years hay production will return to normal.

thanks for the offer again.

 

[CDennyRun]

Thanks for the offer-I do appreciate it- but we have ours in, and mom has already made the deal for hers this year. her price did include delivery.
The main problem with my (horse girls) is they both had to inspect the hay before agreeing to buy, so I just do the moving/ stacking- that way it's not my (fault) if the hay is not up to their standards. My sister gets hers from just outside Spokane and gets very good pricing- but last year there was Bracken Fern in it and someone had go through it by hand before it could be fed.

For me it is worth it to let the ladies do the hay sourcing/ buying- I get in less trouble that way:laughing: Hopefully next years hay production will return to normal.

thanks for the offer again.

No problem. I sure hope things get back on track this time around. I really enjoyed the mild winter and long summer, but boy did it cause a lot of problems! I've never found Bracken fern in our hay. Where did that hay come from?

 

[PeteinOK]

I sell a little horse hay in northeast Oklahoma. I stay away from the 'prairie grass/native grass' for horses since the protein is usually less than it takes to keep a horse in good condition. You can find that junk for $3/bale if you are a cheapass, lol. I truck in alfalfa from southern KS about an hour and a half north of me, and bermuda grass form NW Arkansas, hour and a half to the east. I have kept prices the same from last year to this year. $11/bale for ~70 lb alfalfa bales and $5/bale for last year's bermuda and $8/bale for this year's bermuda. The two guys I deal with both have 30+ years experience and they say the price of fuel is minor compared to the price of fertilizer. The guy in Arkansas has quit using commercial fertilizer and has gone back to using straight chicken litter to fertilize his fields and only sprays for weeds using Grazon p+d. Even when I haul hay I only have 8-15 cents a bale into diesel at $3 a gallon, and I expect to haul out 1500+ bales of alfalfa and 500+ bales of grass. If somebody goes to jacking the price of hay up in this country they'll have to eat it for dinner to make up for the loss of customers.

 

[MORRISONSTEEL]

I was wondering if any of you guys adjust your prices down, after the price of diesel drops significantly. In my area, small bales were $2.50-3.00 six or seven years ago. Diesel skyrocketed, and now people pay $10-16 for orchard grass, timothy and so on. This year diesel is close to what it was in 2003, and prices are still going up.

This kind of blows my mind. I understand that the prices of everything else haven't dropped, and it needs to be a profitable business. I just think that fuel prices should reflect hay prices in both directions. The cheapest I've found in my area lately is $8. I talked to a farmer the other day who is charging $10 about it, and he just said "It's supply and demand. I'm going to cash in as much as I can" I get that making optimal profit is EVERYONES goal in all industries, but I feel pretty off put by the farmers here locally for these crazy prises. It just seems dishonest.

This is another reason I can't wait to start baling my own! Thoughts?

Regards,

Chris

Doesn't really seem dishonest to me. An alternative would be to contract with the grower ahead of time as opposed to waiting for the best deal once production is done.

 

[CDennyRun]

Doesn't really seem dishonest to me. An alternative would be to contract with the grower ahead of time as opposed to waiting for the best deal once production is done.

Yeah, we do work with him ahead of time. He's just such a flake, that he'll give our hay away if someone offers him more than what he charges us. We've been having a really hard time with this guy. Most of the other locals don't give discounts for early contracts. Just a field discount, of a buck or less.

Like I said, I know there has to be good profit in any business. Know some of these farmers, and what they do with their fields just doesn't justify $12 for grass bales. Alfalfa on the other hand, has always been expensive. Our horses don't need it, thus we don't buy it.

 

[MORRISONSTEEL]

Yeah, we do work with him ahead of time. He's just such a flake, that he'll give our hay away if someone offers him more than what he charges us. We've been having a really hard time with this guy. Most of the other locals don't give discounts for early contracts. Just a field discount, of a buck or less.

Like I said, I know there has to be good profit in any business. Know some of these farmers, and what they do with their fields just doesn't justify $12 for grass bales. Alfalfa on the other hand, has always been expensive. Our horses don't need it, thus we don't buy it.

Now....that I would consider dis-honest. One time for me on changing or selling out from under me a contracted product would be the last time I would buy.

 

[CDennyRun]

Now....that I would consider dis-honest. One time for me on changing or selling out from under me a contracted product would be the last time I would buy.

Yup! The worse part is he'll lie about it to cover his butt. I don't think he knows how close the horse community is. Ha ha

This year he brought us moldy hay from last year, and said it was this years first cuttings. We sent him back with about half of it. Trying to find a decent deal to make up for the rest has become a depressing task.

 

[MORRISONSTEEL]

That is unfortunate. In our area it is nearly impossible to find a large selection of small squares for horse feed, w/out paying the premium price. The growers and commercial operators just got away from the hassle and for the most part only build either large/med squares or round bales, but handling even a #1,300 bale can be a pain as well for many horse owners, let alone a heavy bale. You are tight though, the horse community for the most part is a fairly tight nit group of folks and the word can spread quickly. I have a friend about 100 miles s of me who produces a lot of 4' rounds. He has a large operation so there is always someone in the shop to put 1 bale in the back of a pickup for someone that they can easily push out where they want it and come back next week and get another. Its crazy how many folks will pull into their yard on a Saturday afternoon and come back year after year because he his honest about his product. Getting harder to find those folks though, good luck.

 

[1648nc]

You're just lucky there's hay to be bought over your way, it's been so dry around here til now that there's very little for sale. I'm as small as small time can get and what i made 21 rolls on in the spring made 7 rolls this fall, factor in that i've fed 8 rolls this summer while it's been dry and i'm probably gonna be in a bind this winter.
Your predicament is exactly why i bought my own used wore out equipment though. When its bad years and there's none to be bought, my small field hay(which you said you find comical) is worth alot....to me.

But after you start making your own, report back here and let everyone know how cheap you'd sell your hay after a couple breakdowns, killing yourself to get it in before rain, and paying the fertilizer bill.

 

[joeu235]

We sell about 2000 square bales of high quality horse hay a year. We set the price a couple dollars less than the local feed store. Current price is $6 in the field and $7 in the barn for 60 lb pound bales. If its a year we irrigate, diesel goes from insignificant to the largest factor

approximate cost per bale:
$1.30 -- 400 #/acre 20/10/0 fertilizer in the spring + 200#/acre 20/0/0 after each cutting
$1.30 -- equipment depreciation - two tractors, baler, cutter, rake, two flat bed trailers
$0.75 -- Pastora & Grazon herbicide
$0.75 -- Labor to pick up and stack in barn
$0.32 -- Equipment operator labor (me and dad) @ $20 / hour
$0.08 -- diesel for baling and processing
------
$4.50

 

[CDennyRun]

You're just lucky there's hay to be bought over your way, it's been so dry around here til now that there's very little for sale. I'm as small as small time can get and what i made 21 rolls on in the spring made 7 rolls this fall, factor in that i've fed 8 rolls this summer while it's been dry and i'm probably gonna be in a bind this winter.
Your predicament is exactly why i bought my own used wore out equipment though. When its bad years and there's none to be bought, my small field hay(which you said you find comical) is worth alot....to me.

But after you start making your own, report back here and let everyone know how cheap you'd sell your hay after a couple breakdowns, killing yourself to get it in before rain, and paying the fertilizer bill.

Wow, it's crazy toe hear everyone's stories about how scarce hay is. I'm really sorry you guys have to deal with that. Kinda scary really. I'd hate to see what happens if this strange weather keeps up.

Odds are I won't be fertilizing much. Most of the people around here don't, if it's just grass, and mostly for their own animals. Some do, but a lot of the time it's per the customers request. I more than likely won't be selling much either. If I do it'll be to friends and family, so breaking even and paying for the equipment is all I'll care about.

 

[MattLynch]

$2.50- 3.25 a bale is the norm here, but I have seen very good quality second cut timothy as high as $5.00. Round bales are typically $25-35 depending on quality, silage is much more available then hay. Last year was a bad year and people were short but this year is looking good, just talked to another producer who got 9 bales per acre first cut and 7 per acre second. I got around 6-7 which is a little more average. Both his and mine were baled as silage as hay is pretty hard to make here.

 

[leeave96]

Making square bales of hay is a heck of a lot of work. Capital investment, even if you're a small timer like me, can be huge and if it ain't, you're likely on your back fixing the equipment at every turn, when you aren't running to buy parts. Nobody works free, not even family members. Taxes on the sales, taxes on the profit, taxes on the equipment and land. Quality hay needs to be weed free and of a good variety. Fertilizer, herbicides, lime and seed are cost drivers. Liability insurance in case someone decides to sue.

Making quality hay isn't an exercise in charity. I laugh when people complain about the price of hay - especially when they don't have enough hot air to load their own (brand new truck), let alone make any hay themselves.

Good luck with your hay endeavor. Let us know your opinion of hay prices once you start making your own.

 

[CDennyRun]

Making square bales of hay is a heck of a lot of work. Capital investment, even if you're a small timer like me, can be huge and if it ain't, you're likely on your back fixing the equipment at every turn, when you aren't running to buy parts. Nobody works free, not even family members. Taxes on the sales, taxes on the profit, taxes on the equipment and land. Quality hay needs to be weed free and of a good variety. Fertilizer, herbicides, lime and seed are cost drivers. Liability insurance in case someone decides to sue.

Making quality hay isn't an exercise in charity. I laugh when people complain about the price of hay - especially when they don't have enough hot air to load their own (brand new truck), let alone make any hay themselves.

Good luck with your hay endeavor. Let us know your opinion of hay prices once you start making your own.

Trust me, I've learned quite a bit from this thread. I understand, and have stated in previous posts that anyone running a business has to make good profit. I'm not that selfish to think I should get my hay at cost. I've also stated that I know the cost of labor and everything else these days are much higher, and harder to find young guys to help. I've been a hand in the field for many years, and know that the farmer has a lot on his/her plate, and works their tale off. My respect for farmers of all aspects is incredibly high.

What I do know from my experience where I live is, a lot of my local small hay farmers don't fertilize, don't lime, haven't purchased more expensive equipment, and still charge $7-12 per bale in the field. The bales have weeds, bones, excessive dead mice, barbed wire, plastic bags, loose bales that explode, and frankly been dishonest about their product. A lot of the time they bring up the price of diesel, which is why I posted this thread. Please don't think I started this to just bash on hay farmers.

I know that haying my own will take a long time to pay it's self off, and will be a ton of work. At that point, I'll only have myself to blame for hay problems. I would rather that, than being pissed at someone else, and knowing I over payed for garbage hay.