Hay preservative systems for small squares?

[tcreeley]

If your horses are cheap and auction horse- feed them treated hay- no big deal. If your horses are part of the family, or worth as much as your tractor- don't feed them treated hay. Same reason as you don't just dump anything into your tractor on hearsay.
I buried one horse we had had for 26 years. Sad putting down an old friend. The other was with us just 7 years. You should have seen him looking up at us, in pain, hoping and affectionate -from the ground- unable to do anything to rise. The vet gave him the injection that ended it all.
Everyone said sludge hay was fine, "never heard of a problem". We lost two horses.
Additives are not there in nature. Don't feed them. No one feeds silage products to horses - grass or corn. -Asking for trouble. They are not cows.
Crappy dry hay- is better than additive or silage hay.

 

[Tx Jim]

tcreeley
1st off horses have the most sensitive digestive system of any animal I know of on this Earth. Anything can cause them to colic or founder. I'm not any advocate of hay that has had sludge(human waste) applied but a local feed store sells 100's of rd bales every year to horse owners that has had sludge applied for yrs without having major horse problems. 2nd hay with preservative applied is not even close to silage or baleage.

 

[tcreeley]

You said it- horses have delicate digestive systems. Stay away from the unnatural stuff.

 

[Tx Jim]

You said it- horses have delicate digestive systems. Stay away from the unnatural stuff.

Ya but horses eating natural(organic) feed/hay will colic & founder.

 

[AKfish]

I have never made hay myself. I have bought hay out of the fields and sometimes a barn for over forty years. If the hay has dampness feel to it, it stays in the field or in a "gonna use soon" stack NOT in my barn. All my hay when it goes in the barn gets salted. Layer of bales go on a wood floor that has been salted. Next layer of bales goes on top of the first layer that has salt on top of it. Each layer gets salted including the top.

I have found that this helps ****** mold, keeps the horses thirsty and drinking when they don't want to but should, in the winters. Damp hay will not go in my barn. One of the things I dislike about bale wagons, the only thing, is that the bales aren't touched by humans. When we pick up bales in the field by hand or with a Henry pop up loader, we cull out the heavy ones, ones that seem heavier than the norm. Salt and common sense, vigilance work for us.

We've had horses up here (Alaska) for 10 years. Bought hay for the first 2-3 years and we started to bale our own hay after a year of salting every bale that went in the barn!

We had rock salt everywhere! Granted, the hay didn't get dusty but the time and labor and expense to add salt to every bale...and I did not want to have a situation with "dead" spots here and there around the place from salt "accidents". The stuff is corrosive and over the years... Well, I could see that I did not want to stay on that routine.

We usually make the effort to sort out the heavier bales, too. Gonna have a few it seems, generally from the outside rows next to the trees. With kids helping though... It is not a rigorous, exact process. More hodgepodge and a bit (nah.. It's a lot) chaotic!! So, there's some anticipated "mixing" in the stacks!

If I could eliminate that problem with a bit of preservative - I sure would.

Talking with the cow\calf producer that uses preservative he says -- "you know, nobody raises moldy hay in Alaska on purpose"!

I think that applies pretty much everywhere. Except maybe the mushroom guys.

AKfish

 

[tcreeley]

It is about timing the weather and not cutting more at a time than you can dry and get in. Carelessness can contribute to crumby hay, A "good enough" attitude can do the same.

Horses colic and they have to be carefully managed. Part of that management is feeding them carefully - or buy cheap horseflesh and replace often. It depends on your investment. Nothing invested - feed them garbage, cut your losses, and move on.

 

[AKfish]

It is about timing the weather and not cutting more at a time than you can dry and get in. Carelessness can contribute to crumby hay, A "good enough" attitude can do the same.

Horses colic and they have to be carefully managed. Part of that management is feeding them carefully - or buy cheap horseflesh and replace often. It depends on your investment. Nothing invested - feed them garbage, cut your losses, and move on.[/QUOTEd]

I agree with your observations that it's about "timing the weather, not cutting more than you get off the field, etc."

However, I haven't "perfected" my ability to accurately judge the weather with total certainty! Sometimes I get close or lucky - as the case may be - and get all my hay in the barn without a drop of rain on it. Just not a 100% of the time.

Nonetheless, I've only ever had the vet out a single time for our horses in 10 years. That was after a hunting trip and eating brome pellets. Vet said keep him movin'' around and put lot's of fresh water in front of him. That was it - he turned out just fine.

None of my hay has coliced a horse but I don't want any coughing either. So, when I get caught short by the weather changing quicker than I (or the weatherman) planned for.. Maybe there's an alternative to dusty hay??

AKfish

 

[Tx Jim]

AKfish
What's Brome pellets that you horse ate?
Thanks,Jim

 

[tcreeley]

Ya but horses eating natural(organic) feed/hay will colic & founder.

That is why you have to manage even that- the amount and the richness of the feed- whether pasture, grain, etc.. After the winter you have to ease horses into the pasture- in increments- 15 min, 30, 60, etc. With care you have healthy horses. That is why you have to watch out for hay as well.
Too many apples from drops can also colic or founder a horse.
It is all about proper management. No additives, no sludge. Only living on borrowed time if you do.

 

[Tx Jim]

tcreeley
Do you have ""written proof"" that hay that has had sludge applied is detrimental to horses?? As I previously stated local feed store sales 100's of rd bales every year to horse owners with no apparent after affects!! Talk is easy but the walk is A LITTLE HARDER.

 

[AKfish]

AKfish
What's Brome pellets that you horse ate?
Thanks,Jim

Smooth brome grass. Very productive northern clime grass. Can be "stemmy" when mature, or cut too late. We've got a pellet plant in Delta Junction, AK.

AKfish

 

[RickB]

here's some reading for those interested in some facts and observations from Universities and the industry:

http://www.uky.edu/Ag/AnimalSciences/pubs/id146.pdf

Forage Preservation, Hay Preservative, Straw & Hay Nutrition Treatment

Preventing Mouldy Hay Using Propionate Preservatives | OMAFRA Field Crop News

http://www.profitablefarming.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Acid-Treated-Hay-For-Horses.pdf

 

[Bigfoot62]

. . . Talking with the cow\calf producer that uses preservative he says -- "you know, nobody raises moldy hay in Alaska on purpose"! . . .

AKfish

Almost spit on my keyboard when I read that one!!! That's FUNNY! :laughing:

 

[AKfish]

Almost spit on my keyboard when I read that one!!! That's FUNNY! :laughing:

Yeah.. He caught me off guard with that too! LOL

AKfish

 

[AKfish]

Thanks Rick. I read every one.. Appreciate it. I'm gonna do something to ensure I am able to have safe, palatable and nutritious forage for my animals and anyone that buys hay from me.

AKfish

 

[tcreeley]

-some info:

(Has anyone making a buck off of something they sell voluntarily stepped forward and said they were pulling the product for safety reasons. That's the sludge/disposal system for you- it is all safe until well after the fact of the harm it causes. In 40 years of having horses and buying hay- the one time I bought that sludge fertilized hay was the only time I lost a horse to colic, and that was two horses.)

United Sludge-Free Alliance

Biosolids - SourceWatch

Risk of Toxic Nitrate Accumulation in Forages Grown on Biosolids-amended Soils

The Real Dirt on Sewage Sludge - Natural Life Magazine

 

[Tx Jim]

tcreeley
Hay that's had sludge(human refuse) applied & hay that's have a preservative applied are two totally different things!!

What's your view on hay grown on soil that's had deep well(LPG or oil) drilling mud applied on it?????

 

[rankrank1]

AKFish,

I have ready many of your posts but for the life of me I can not remember what you cut your hay with (and I am too lazy today to search out that answer)? If it is not either a sickle based mower conditioner (aka haybine) or a discbine then that would be the first change I would personally make in switching to a unit that conditions the hay before doing the chemical thing.

Sure lots of people on here will post that people do not need conditioning and plain ole disc mowers and drum mowers work great. Then you check where they live and it is a hot arid climate like Texas and Arizona.

I know what it is like to get my hay dry in a humid climate like Southwest Ohio. I can only imagine what trials Alaska weather would provide.

I cut with an ole Hesston 1120 sickle based mower conditioner and then use my ole JD 594 rake on steel to flippy the windrows as many times as needed to get it dry. That is almost always at least 3 times (3rd time being the final rake to bale) and is sometimes even 4 times (4th time being the final rake to bale). My rake makes loose fluffy windrows that dry well without sun bleaching. Sure raking 3 times sounds awful but it is really no different than tedding twice and raking once as far as trips across the field.

I do know that the person who buys my hay also buys from other people too. My hay smells so much better than the other people's hay that he buys from that it is not even a comparison. In theory my ingredients (Timothy. clover, and plain orchard/pasture grass mix) are of lesser quality in regards to ingredients of the other hay suppliers he buys from. My guess is the other supplier cuts it, lets it lay, rakes it once, and bales it wet clumps and all.

Sure that other guy said that no one makes dusty hay on purpose, but it takes guessing right on the weather, hard work, and investing even extra work if required, along with some good luck to make good hay. Just ask yourself if you were a caged animal and provided the choice of 2 different bales of hay to eat and if you know for a fact that you would choose the bale of hay that you made since it smells so much better, is not dusty, is NOT treated with vinegar tasting chemicals, then you will know you have done everything correctly.

My wife (farm girl raised) and me (city boy who was only a farmer wannabe who grew up raising soybeans on rented ground elsewhere on weekends) always joke back and forth about the hay we make. She sure is always impressed as she had her doubts on whether we could do it or not back when we started our masochistic hobby of haymaking. True Story: We temporarily stored a load of hay in her family farm home place barn for few days this summer. This hay was made by both her and I together working as a team (she often floppy's the windrows while I am at my real job). She said it had been over 35 years since that barn smelled that good. Made be feel good (and proud) as her dad has been long gone for decades.

 

[RickB]

Buffered propionic acid is a safe effective tool that provides results when used properly. When weather is uncooperative or unpredictable, the use of acid can often result in higher quality hay than rained on hay, or hay that remains uncut waiting on that "perfect" weather window while feed quality declines. The inference that acid treated hay is equivalent to hay grown on sludge treated land is nothing more than uninformed innuendo.

 

[tcreeley]

Innuendo- I feed no additives- chemical, manmade, etc. I have had good luck with this. Follow your own course.