Hay making help

cowboydoc · May 13, 2004

Egon anytime you want to come down for some hay cutting just let me know. Heck I'll even buy you a plane ticket. I'd like nothing better than to meet you and talk about the old days over a couple cold ones and a fresh cutting of hay.

Egon · May 14, 2004

Don't temp me Doc.

Egon

HayDR · May 14, 2004

Cowboydoc,
The USDA statistics show less than 30% of hay acreage is planted in alfalfa, This does not take into count hay harvested from pasture lands which I'd guess less than 20% is alfalfa. The majority of hay harvested is not alfalfa. Drum/Disc mowers and tedders are all any grass farmer needs to harvest their hay. Our 500 LBS calves brought $1.41 per pound last week, it sure is great to live in the USA.
Mark Carter

cowboydoc · May 14, 2004

I sure would like to tempt you Egon. If you ever need a vacation let me know.

CCI,

Hmm that's very interesting. Both in Iowa and home in Idaho I would say that figure is reversed. Most everyone I know has about 70% alfalfa and 30% grass. I guess that's why when I think hay I always think we're automatically talking about alflafa. Where we have grass it's mostly grazed and not baled much. Most horse people I know that do want to feed grass hay can't even find it because everyone has alfalfa. That must be a southern and eastern thing. Like I told another guy it's almost impossible to give advice on farming because the different regions of the country are so varied in their farming techniques. And I admit I don't know much about farming in the south and east.

I can see how you could do 300 acres if it's all grass. You're only going to do one or two cuttings. On most of our hay we do at least four cuttings and most years five. And when alfalfa is ready it all has to be cut. I would look into those new studies on cutting grass for hay though. I was very shocked at the nutrition values. It's no wonder now that I look back that our cows did so poorly on some grass hay that we've fed over the years. Basically it was just filler.

The other question I have Mark is how do you guys out east do 6.5 acres/hour? Even with our swathers and 14' cuts we can't do 6.5 acres/hour. I just don't see how you could go that fast on fields. They would have to be almost like glass to go that fast I would think. But I am learning about haying in your area so maybe it is different. I know the disc mower would have no trouble cutting the grass but how can you drive that fast? I did some calculations and according to my calculations with an 8' mower you would have to be going 12 mph to cut 6.5 acres in an hour. At best we can go 5-7 mph in hayfields.

Bird · May 14, 2004

( different regions of the country are so varied )

Yep, I would think greatly influenced by climate. In the area where I lived south of Dallas, I doubt that alfalfa is even 5% of hay grown. In fact, I only knew of one farmer who raised any alfalfa at all. It was nearly all grass (coastal or Johnson grass) or haygrazer, hybrid Sudan/sorghum mix. I assumed (whether right or wrong) that it was just too hot and dry for alfalfa.

And the only cutting I did personally was with a 9' haybine in grass hay at about 3.5 to 4 mph, so like you said, no way we were going to do 6 acres an hour.

carluman · May 14, 2004

So cowboydoc you trying to get your first cutting in? We just got rained on again this week and looks like we will be getting more. Dad had the cycle mower out this week and that alfalfa is ready to go.

Great info in this thread. I wanted to farm (just not bad enough I guess) but ended up in computer programming. I'm learning a little more now that I have Boer goats and starting to increase my heard size. Plus I'm about to my first tractor /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

HayDR · May 14, 2004

Cowboydoc,
 how do you guys out east do 6.5 acres/hour? Even with our swathers and 14' cuts we can't do 6.5 acres/hour. 
Maybe that green equipment is not as fast as the other guys. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif Pull the throttle back most farmers mow 6-10 mph with disc mowers and discbines. We put down 40 acres last week in 8 hours and our fields were not all in one location so we had some road time involved in that. We were using a 9' LELY disc mower and a 2355 John Deere tractor.

cowboydoc · May 14, 2004

Carl,

I am chomping at the bit to get into the fields. We have had rain almost everyday for the last two weeks. We're supposed to get a break this weekend but not enough time to get hay up. Pastures are belly high and need cut too. If I could just get four or five good days we'd be going 24 hours a day. Just can't get it.

Mark,

We have never been able to run 10mph. I still don't know how you do it. It's not a question of the mower keeping up it's just not possible to go that fast. You guys must have flat fields and plumb line level fields. On a side note what's the cost of those new mower conditioners that you guys have? The Vermeer ones.

Woodbeef · May 14, 2004

Just enough legumes for nitrogen fixation. Don't sell to milkers,so do not need above 12% or so protein on average.

slowzuki · May 14, 2004

Good discusion about different haying around. In my area there is very little alfalfa, I know I used to dread the fields that were as the bales weight went way up!

Many horse people here feed alf-alfa when they shouldn't so my sister says. They even pay extra to get it!

Re mowing speeds, I'm thinking more like 2 or 3 acres an hour cut, limited by tractor speed and hitting rocks with the haybine.

We are going to try a tray to towed wagon this year, we always used to drop on the ground and load the wagon. I'm hoping this will cut the crew to two stackers, free up a tractor and we can leave everyone else at teh barn unloading.

40Kchicks · May 14, 2004

This year I am going to have about 20 acres cut for me by a custom cutter friend of mine. I’m anxious to see what speed he can manage. The pasture has just had cattle on it for at least 8 years. It’s rough in some spots. When I sprayed it I was able to do 5mph no problems with the 30’ boom.

Before getting the property you may want to talk to some custom hay cutters and see what it would cost to get the job done for you. You could always decide later if buying the equipment is going to be worth it and take the time to cherry pick the best equipment deals.

For those that don’t have the fancy ground tracking radar on their tractors I found that my hand held GPS worked pretty good for tracking speed.

Eric

Phred · Jun 8, 2004

Key issue with speed is how smooth your fields are.
For me that means about 4 mph max with a vermeer gattor disc mower.
More than that and you loose your teeth or hit your head on the cab from all the bouncing around.

This year the rain is non stop. We had 11 inches of rain for may! Thats about 2x the normal. Already have about 2" for june and the average is about 5" for the whole month!

We have the hay. I am running about 2 tons per acer in the first cutting and the county average is about 2.5 tons / acer per year. Almost all fescue / clover mix. Top soil is thin so almost nobody contemplates anything but fescue or bermuda.
Winter kill can be a problem with the bermuda in this area I am told.

The bad news is the quality will be down since its almost all been rained on after cutting or matured too much.
Just can't get 3-4 dry days in a row.

I agree with the idea of cutting in stages to hedge your bets on weather. The forecast called for a week of dry hot weather on my last cutting and it rained d^%& near every day after I fired up the mower for almost 2 weeks!
Glad I did not cut it all....

Richard: Your right about the loss of feed quality as it matures. Most county extension offices have paper on this issue with data that proves the point. The problem is would you rather cut it and have it mold due to bad weather or wait for dry weather in early to mid june and have lost the quality of the hay.

Fred

cowboydoc · Jun 8, 2004

Fred,

Yea I know it's a gamble. Either way making hay is tough!!!

HayDR · Jun 8, 2004

Take the weather out of hay making. McHale Bale Wrappers

cowboydoc · Jun 8, 2004

What does one of those run? Around $10k?

Phred · Jun 10, 2004

Yep, the weather sure does add a challenge.

But when it all works out its a great sense of satisfaction, and you can't bet the smell of fresh new hay bales after you worked your tail off all day long making them. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Fred

Phred · Jun 10, 2004

Mark,

Not only do you have the cost of the machine but what does the wrap run per bale?
I suspect you would have at least a buck in material cost per bale.
Add it all up and its a big chunk of the selling price of hay around here.

Fred

HayDR · Jun 10, 2004

The best way to make money selling hay is to feed it to some cattle and then sell them. Haylage can have higher protein than corn silage with the correct grass mix.

cowboydoc · Jun 10, 2004

The best way to make money selling hay is to feed it to some cattle and then sell them.

I sure don't agree with this unless you already have an existing cow/calf operation. Trying to buy feeders right now and feed them out the estimates are you will lose $100/head.

cowboydoc · Jun 10, 2004

Here's a breakdown on expenses for doing hay.

Alfalfa, Hay
Estimated Expenses per Acre
Your Amount
Farm ($/acre) Price Quantity Unit Description Item
Variable Expenses
_______ $13.80 $0.23 60.00 lb P2O5 Fertilizer
_______ $28.50 $0.15 190.00 lb K2O
_______ $4.76 $2.38 2.00 lb Boron
_______ $5.00 $5.00 1.00 acre Custom Application
_______ $10.72 $16.00 0.67 ton Custom Applied Lime 1
_______ $18.46 $9.23 2.00 pt Furadan 4F Insect Control 2
Weed Control
_______ $3.05 $2.03 1.50 pt Poast Plus 3 Post-Emerge
_______ $2.04 $1.02 2.00 pt Crop Oil
_______ $5.00 $5.00 1.00 acre Custom Application
_______ $1.65 $1.65 1.00 pt 2,4-DB 4
_______ $1.25 $5.00 0.25 acre Custom Application
_______ $4.04 $4.04 1.00 pt Gramoxone Extra Dormant Spray
_______ $0.59 $1.18 0.50 pt Surfactant
_______ $5.00 $5.00 1.00 acre Custom Application
_______ $27.93 $1.33 21.00 lb Fresh Cut Hay Preservative
_______ $5.79 $0.04 140.00 bale Twine
Machinery
_______ $2.76 $2.76 1.00 acre Fuel
_______ $0.41 $0.41 1.00 acre Oil & Filter
_______ $21.72 $21.72 1.00 acre Repairs & Maintenance
_______ $8.12 10.0% $162.47 acre 6 months Interest on Operating Capital
_______ $170.60 Total Variable Expenses
Fixed Expenses
_______ $35.07 $35.07 1.00 acre Prorated over 4 years Establishment Cost
Machinery
_______ $21.05 $21.05 1.00 acre Depreciation
_______ $30.22 $30.22 1.00 acre Interest
_______ $2.13 $2.13 1.00 acre Housing & Insurance
_______ $88.47 Total Fixed Expenses
Labor Expenses
_______ $44.99 $8.00 5.62 hour Labor 5
_______ $304.05 Total Budgeted Expenses
Footnotes:
1 Lime is applied at the rate of 2 tons every 3 years.
2 Other materials may be used at slightly less cost, but do not appear as effective.
3 Poast Plus is included for control of crabgrass, which is a common problem. If johnsongrass is a problem,
Select may be used.
4 Applied once every four years.
5 Labor expense is $8.00 per hour, including wages, Social Security and Medicaid taxes and payroll
administration costs.