Hay Equipment full set

[Slippy]

Hello all:
Looking for suggestions on a full set up of hay equipment. I have the tractors, but looking for a full line of hay equipment. Have been reading other post which have been helpful, but not really on point.
Things you will probably ask me to answer this:
1. 250+ acres of hay
2. Mostly grass with clover
3. Have 40, 60, & 140 hp tractors
4. Have bale spears, etc.

Now, my question is what is a good set up for doing the complete hay process? Starting with the cutter, I have looked at many, including disc and disc conditioners and haybinds. I have read research papers done by university with studies about moisture content, sugar content, when to cut, etc. So, what type and brand is good. Heard a lot of good things about NH. What do some of you use or suggest?

Take it from there...once I get it cut, do I really need a tedder or a rake? Will some of these cutters with conditioners do away with the need to windrow?

Then of course, what about the baler? I am thinking I will go round bales. I have done (w others who had this equipment) 800lb bales and up to 1500lb bales. What type and brand is good? What features should I get?

I intend to sell all the hay. I have read many studies about hay waste resulting from different forms of storage. If I went with a building, would a 50 x 100 with say 18 feet tall work? Will a structure with a roof and one side (west) covered be sufficient to store the hay?

Any suggestions, ideas, etc. would be appriciated.
Thanks.

 

[RFB]

Also consider the 800lb large square bales. They stack a lot more secure for down the highway flatbed hauling and on hay trailers from field to barn.

They also stab easy with the spears like the round bales.

Your one sided building will be okay if that keeps the majority of snow and rain off of the hay. Around here, the other three sides would be filled with elk.

 

[ddivinia]

Hello all:
Looking for suggestions on a full set up of hay equipment. I have the tractors, but looking for a full line of hay equipment. Have been reading other post which have been helpful, but not really on point.
Things you will probably ask me to answer this:
1. 250+ acres of hay
2. Mostly grass with clover
3. Have 40, 60, & 140 hp tractors
4. Have bale spears, etc.

Now, my question is what is a good set up for doing the complete hay process? Starting with the cutter, I have looked at many, including disc and disc conditioners and haybinds. I have read research papers done by university with studies about moisture content, sugar content, when to cut, etc. So, what type and brand is good. Heard a lot of good things about NH. What do some of you use or suggest?

Take it from there...once I get it cut, do I really need a tedder or a rake? Will some of these cutters with conditioners do away with the need to windrow?

Then of course, what about the baler? I am thinking I will go round bales. I have done (w others who had this equipment) 800lb bales and up to 1500lb bales. What type and brand is good? What features should I get?

I intend to sell all the hay. I have read many studies about hay waste resulting from different forms of storage. If I went with a building, would a 50 x 100 with say 18 feet tall work? Will a structure with a roof and one side (west) covered be sufficient to store the hay?

Any suggestions, ideas, etc. would be appriciated.
Thanks.

I am going thru the same situation right now. I will be baling coastal bermuda in North Texas.

I have settled on a krone 10'6" disc mower (going to buy new).
Got a used John Deere 10 wheel rake
Got a used John Deere 467 round baler with megawide and cover edge.

I suspect you will need a tedder up there - depends on how warm it gets. Somebody in your area would know better.

D.

 

[JoeinTX]

@slippy

Wow, so many things to think about here.

What are the primary haying crops in your area? Large stem (High-Gear, Sudan, Johnson grass) or small stem (alfalfa, bermuda, pasture grasses).........the type of swather (mower conditioner) you get can depend upon this. For the larger stem crops you will want the traditional rubber reel conditioners to remove as moisture as possible from the plant......for the smaller stem plants you may want a newer finger reel machine or so I hear. What kind do you have?

People seem to prefer a simply disc mower for small stems......but a moco for larger stem plants. It all depends on the crop, your weather, and the time involved. You want to cut it, dry it as quick as you can, and bale it and it can vary.

As for baling, well, it's even more of a guess. What do the customers around you want? Are they cattle-feeders trying to get the most quantity to the herd at least effort or are they ranchetters who want a few square bales to bed down the emus and feed the son's FFA steer? For the former, big round bales are the ticket and for the latter you want to lay out a bunch of small square bales............preferably that they can come and load themselves at a discounted price

I know, I know....there are no definite answers. If I was to go into the haying business here I would have a good 80-100hp with loader, a good 10-12' disc moco, a dual wheel rake, an older small square baler and a newer 5'by'5 round baler......to handle to local conditions.

 

[chh]

I'm in the process of buying the same type of equipement. Here in Oklahoma we don't use mower conditioners,except on alfalfa type hay and generally only tedder if it is very heavy hay or if it gets rained on. I've never owned a tedder and get by ok. You might want to see how local people are doing it in your area. I have picked up a H-S 10 wheel rake and will probably get 2 9' New Ideal disc mowers (may go Kuhn yet) and not real positive on the baler yet. Still looking for a deal. Trucking rules on hay is getting to be more of a concern all the time. Enforcement can be spotty but most truckers prefer 4' wide bales so they won't be over width. They generally prefer net wrap also. I have been looking mainly at JD 467 or 468 balers and Hesston/MF balers because they are the closest dealers in my area. The barn you are planning sounds like a good idea, just don't put the bales in it for a couple of weeks so that it can go thru it's heat cycle or you may have a fire on your hands.

 

[firefighter9208]

As far as a barn. The person that I buy hay from has a 60x100 with 14' walls with a 2' overhang of the roof. One end has a lean to type roof to keep blowing rain out and the other is open. He has tarps for side walls from the ground to 10' up. This allows air to circulate, but keeps blowing rain out. He says the tarps last about 2-3 years and then he replaces them as needed. They are cheap silver ones from Walmart.

He stacks hay in his barn with a M6800 Kubota and hay spear for round bales or one of the clamps (don't know the real name) for square bales.

Another guy I buy hay from has a John Deere Telehandler that he uses to clean out his chicken houses (load litter) (him and his 3 brothers have 64 houses) and handle round bales. He has a dual hay fork on the front and can load 2 1000# bales at one time. The telehandler also allows him to stack the bales much higher than a tractor.

Chris

 

[ddivinia]

I'm in the process of buying the same type of equipement. Here in Oklahoma we don't use mower conditioners,except on alfalfa type hay and generally only tedder if it is very heavy hay or if it gets rained on. I've never owned a tedder and get by ok. You might want to see how local people are doing it in your area. I have picked up a H-S 10 wheel rake and will probably get 2 9' New Ideal disc mowers (may go Kuhn yet) and not real positive on the baler yet. Still looking for a deal. Trucking rules on hay is getting to be more of a concern all the time. Enforcement can be spotty but most truckers prefer 4' wide bales so they won't be over width. They generally prefer net wrap also. I have been looking mainly at JD 467 or 468 balers and Hesston/MF balers because they are the closest dealers in my area. The barn you are planning sounds like a good idea, just don't put the bales in it for a couple of weeks so that it can go thru it's heat cycle or you may have a fire on your hands.

The 5 foot bales down here in Texas are generally baled for consumption on the same ranch. 10' wide loads take extra permits or some not patrolled backroads.

On the wrap - the John Deere Coveredge goes down part of the side of the bales to help with rain, etc. I looked at all the balers, the John Deere balers seem hard to beat.

D.

 

[flusher]

Hello all:
Looking for suggestions on a full set up of hay equipment. I have the tractors, but looking for a full line of hay equipment. Have been reading other post which have been helpful, but not really on point.
Things you will probably ask me to answer this:
1. 250+ acres of hay
2. Mostly grass with clover
3. Have 40, 60, & 140 hp tractors
4. Have bale spears, etc.

Now, my question is what is a good set up for doing the complete hay process? Starting with the cutter, I have looked at many, including disc and disc conditioners and haybinds. I have read research papers done by university with studies about moisture content, sugar content, when to cut, etc. So, what type and brand is good. Heard a lot of good things about NH. What do some of you use or suggest?

Take it from there...once I get it cut, do I really need a tedder or a rake? Will some of these cutters with conditioners do away with the need to windrow?

Then of course, what about the baler? I am thinking I will go round bales. I have done (w others who had this equipment) 800lb bales and up to 1500lb bales. What type and brand is good? What features should I get?

I intend to sell all the hay. I have read many studies about hay waste resulting from different forms of storage. If I went with a building, would a 50 x 100 with say 18 feet tall work? Will a structure with a roof and one side (west) covered be sufficient to store the hay?

Any suggestions, ideas, etc. would be appriciated.
Thanks.

Check out this equipment dealer

Hay Harvesters by Hobby Horse Ranch L.L.C.

He has put together haying packages that might be useful to you.

This is used equipment and he's located in Jerome, Idaho, quite a way away from you. But you can get an idea of the equipment and the used prices, which will be helpful if you decide to go with pre-owned stuff instead of expensive new haying equipment. If you like his stuff, he says he'll ship to anywhere in the U.S.

I only have 10 acres of which only 7 acres are available for haying. I certainly qualify as a "hobby hayer". Plan to plant orchardgrass/rye/clover mix. Have a 21 hp Kubota B7510HST/LA 302 FEL and a 45 hp MF-135 diesel for this work.

Don't need the large equipment that hobbyhorseranch offers. So far I've picked up a nice 6-ft Allis Chalmers trailer-type sicklebar mower ($150), a 7-ft Ferguson tandem disk ($200) and a 6-ft offset disc (free from a neighbor). Need a single shank ripper, 2-14 plow, grain drill with grass seeder attachment, cultipacker, side-delivery rake and a baler for small square bales. Don't need expensive bale handlng equipment since at most I'll be doing 200-300 bales per year. Just for the fun of it, I plan to build a single-bale hay clamp that attaches to the LA302 FEL to load and unload bales from my flatbed trailer.

Hope to get my equipment package together for $5k or less. We'll see.

 

[CumminsLuke]

Hello all:
Looking for suggestions on a full set up of hay equipment. I have the tractors, but looking for a full line of hay equipment. Have been reading other post which have been helpful, but not really on point.
Things you will probably ask me to answer this:
1. 250+ acres of hay
2. Mostly grass with clover
3. Have 40, 60, & 140 hp tractors
4. Have bale spears, etc.

Now, my question is what is a good set up for doing the complete hay process? Starting with the cutter, I have looked at many, including disc and disc conditioners and haybinds. I have read research papers done by university with studies about moisture content, sugar content, when to cut, etc. So, what type and brand is good. Heard a lot of good things about NH. What do some of you use or suggest?

Take it from there...once I get it cut, do I really need a tedder or a rake? Will some of these cutters with conditioners do away with the need to windrow?

Then of course, what about the baler? I am thinking I will go round bales. I have done (w others who had this equipment) 800lb bales and up to 1500lb bales. What type and brand is good? What features should I get?

I intend to sell all the hay. I have read many studies about hay waste resulting from different forms of storage. If I went with a building, would a 50 x 100 with say 18 feet tall work? Will a structure with a roof and one side (west) covered be sufficient to store the hay?

Any suggestions, ideas, etc. would be appriciated.
Thanks.

I'd look at a new NH, JD, Vermeer, Hesston, or Vicon, pull type disc mower/conditioner if you can afford it. I personally would buy a machine with a roller type conditioner over the impeller type because I bale some clover also and the impellers knock off a lot leafs, same goes for alfalfa. You would have to pull any of these machines with you 140hp tractor, 60hp won't cut it on a discbine. If you do not want to spend $15,000 to $22000 on one of those you could buy a 3-point mounted disc mower, with no conditioner, and you could probably pull a 9'-10' machine with just your 60hp tractor. If you go with the 3-point disc mower you will need one extra day of dry down time unless it is really hot and dry. The advantage to a 3-point disc mower is cost, you can buy a good one new for $6000-$9000. Stay away from used disc machines, no telling what kind of trouble you are buying since you can't see inside them.

If you are in ohio you are going to need a tedder. I'd buy a four basket or maybe a six if you have big fields that aren't to hilly. You can buy a nice new four basket machine that will have a working with of around 17'(what I have) for $3000-$6000 depending on manual or hydraulic fold. I would stay away from the big name brands on tedders because they just buy them from companies like Kuhn, Sitrex, Tonutti, and Vicon and put their own paint job on them and tack on a $1000-$2000.

For a rake I'd recomend a good NH bar rake like mine, but for 250 acre's something bigger would be in order. These wheel rakes that are on a two wheeled frame are cheap and ok, but you really can't change how big a bite they take except for a few inches. If conditions are always ideal they are all right, but sometimes they just don't work well. If money is not an issue buy a rake like this New Holland North America: Products

For a baler, I'd stick with NH, JD, Hesston, or Vermeer. I like a 5x5 or 5x6 myself, but if you are going to be doing a lot of transporting 4x5 or 4x6 would be better. I personally don't like 4x6 bales because the darn things are prone to tip over and require a few more straps when loading two high on a trailer. Twine or net comes down to personal preference. If some bales were going to set outside net is definetly better.

Tell us how much money you have to spend and I can give better advice. I'd stay away from that hobby horse equipment that another poster mentioned. He buys a lot of 30-40 year old wore out stuff and gives it a rattle can overhaul and then puts it together in a package that is priced 5 times to high to unsuspecting novice buyers.

 

[ddivinia]

Hello all:

1. 250+ acres of hay
Thanks.

Also, 250 acres will produce a LOT of hay. Do you have a market for it? I am going to have 100 acres in hay and I am wondering if I can get rid of all of it at a profit or if I will be grazing out part of it.

D.

 

[chh]

The 5 foot bales down here in Texas are generally baled for consumption on the same ranch. 10' wide loads take extra permits or some not patrolled backroads.

On the wrap - the John Deere Coveredge goes down part of the side of the bales to help with rain, etc. I looked at all the balers, the John Deere balers seem hard to beat.

D.

I really like the coveredge wrap, but I am having trouble finding a good used 467/468 that has a low bale count. I missed a deal on ebay on a 468 a couple of weeks ago . For what the used JD's are bringing here I can almost buy a new Hesston/MF 2746. They also have a cheaper 1700 series that will be at dealers in March with factory wrap.
Slippy, I would really check on what my closest dealers were while considering what to buy. I also like the Vermeer and NH machines but the nearest dealers for them are a couple of hours drive away from me.
Watch out for the cheap "reconditioned" units and when a dealer advertises a unit as "been thru our shop". Make sure it was really checked over as it went thru the shop and not just pressure washed. We have a local dealer who is famous for that.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

You did a good job explaining your situation but you need to identify your customers first and what type of bales they want.

For cutting I use a Gehl discbine but have heard good things about New Holland discbines. I bought a Gehl because I got a good deal on it. As for the size of the cutter I would want at least a 9' cutter. You can go bigger and depending on your budget and the tractor you plan on using on the mower.

I think my tedder is one of the best investments I made. Depending on how thick the grass is up here it forms a mat and in real heavy crops the top will dry some but the bottom is as if you just cut it. A tedder does a great job of spreading the hay out and flipping the wet hay from the bottom to the top to dry. In real heavy hay I will run the tedder a couple times depending on how it is drying.

A rake is required and again the size and type is going to depend on what you want to do and a few other things. I have a real strong desire to buy a Kuhn 6002 rotary to replace my NH 256 bar rake. Kuhn, Claas and Tarrup all make rakes that allow you to either double windrows or rake two individual windrows. It allows you a lot of flexibility for raking.

As for baling, you need to decide what your market is and how you want to handle the hay. If you are going for horse farmers you will want to go with small square bales and if you can't find helpers you will want to look at ways to automate picking up the hay (Steffan system, NH stack wagon). If you are going for a beef market round bales seem to be the bale of choice but I can't help you there as I have no experience with beef operations. The dairy farms here have gone to large square bales and high moisture haylage. A bale wrapper is common place on most dairy farms regardless if they use round bales or large square bales. There is a lot of options to consider depending on your customers. There are some good setups to round and large square bale retrevial if you go that route. I saw Pronovost made a great round bale carrier so you don't need a lot of trailers, wagons or loader tractors.

As for the barn size. The NH self propelled bale wagon for small square bales needs around 17' ceiling height to dump the hay so 18' would be good no matter what baler you choose. Also, if you can enclose the barn do it. Sunlight is not good for hay. Bleached hay is not worth much to horse people so the darker you can keep the barn the better. Also, build a good ventilations system into the barn if you enclose it.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Also, 250 acres will produce a LOT of hay. Do you have a market for it? I am going to have 100 acres in hay and I am wondering if I can get rid of all of it at a profit or if I will be grazing out part of it.

D.

I know up here with the high cost of everything we have had to raise our hay prices. I have customers trying to unload horses left and right and if you want a horse now is the time to buy as the market is flooded with them. And with people getting rid of horses you don't sell as much hay to them.

If I was in Slippys case I would not bale 250 acres of hay my first year. Cut 50 acres but try to get customers lined up ahead of time. Keep your price down so people are willing to give you a try as it sounds like you have very little experience with haying and a veteran hay buyer will see that immediately. You don't want to have 250 acres of small square bales in your barn and no market for it. Also, if the hay isn't what your customers want you will want to turn over some fields and start planting a variety of hay so you can gain more customers.

250 acres is a lot for someone to start from scratch with.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

You've probably already thought about this, but, don't base your start-up budget/build your fleet of equipment based strictly upon the current hay market (prices) 2007 was an anomily. 50% of the hay growers in the US were hit hard by drought conditions. 50% of the cattle farmers/ranchers in the US saw their pastures AND hay crops virtually destroyed by that same drought. Hay prices are "artificially" inflated for the time being. A "normal year" (Those who've farmed for years laugh at that! Exactly what is "normal"?) will probably see hay prices return to reality. With fuel and fertilizer prices jumping daily, hay prices likely won't return to "pre-2007" prices, but normal climate conditions will take a bit of desparation out of the minds of most hay buyers.

250 acres is a BUNCH of acreage for hayin'. In my biggest year, I never went beyond 75 acres, and that liked to worked me into an early grave. I'd suggest talking with someone who's tackled that sort of acreage, or, with someone who's dealt with farmers who've operated at that scale. My suggestion is to talk with Mark at CCI (Member/sponsor here on TBN) He's sold more hay equipment than most of us have ever SEEN. He could no doubt provide much usefull insight.

 

[CumminsLuke]

I kind of got my eye on one of these cutters.

http://www.kvernelandgroup.com/irj/...ar Mounted/Vicon DMP 2401TC-2401RC-3001TC.doc

I used to have just a plain 3-point disc mower, but went back to the haybine for dry down. I haven't got enough hp to pull a 9' discbine, but that Vicon 7'10" 3-point model only calls for 60hp. It just might work.

 

[CumminsLuke]

They make some pretty sweet rakes too........

http://www.kvernelandgroup.com/irj/...ucts/Rakes and Tedders/Rakes and Tedders.doc#

 

[Slippy]

Let me try to answer some of the questions that have come up.

In my area, generally more cattle than horses. Most want round bales. So my thought was to start out with some round bales and can always pick up a square baler later.

The comments about the market are very true. I have been selling hay and already have some buyers set up as well as one can in this market.

Transportation is a big issue. While the cattle farmers want larger bales, the horse folks want smaller and square bales. The tip over comments concern me, so from what you folks have said, I guess a 5x5 bail would be best.

My grass is not as thick as most. It is generally made up of Timothy, Fescue and clover. So although 250 acres sounds like a lot, I estimate that in a fair yeild year I could get 750 1000 to 1200lb bales.

Budget is always an issue. Don't have a specific dollar amount but need to factor in return. Although I can do the mechnical work, it is not cost effective in my mine...so I would rather spend the extra dollars and get good equipment that is not going to break down.

I have gotten some prices on a building and they are steep. Going to check on wood now instead of metal.

I can reduce the cost significantly if the roof height is reduced to 16 feet. If I do that, and do 5x6 bales, how would they stack? How high can you stack them safely?

I have found a NH cutter conditioner that will probalby be about 15k, one year use. I think it is about 9 foot. Is that a good price?

I have been activley engaged in the hay production over the last years and active in selling the hay. So, I am not completly new to this whole thing, I just have not purchased my own equipment. I know there is a lot to learn.

I was thinking about trying to work out a situation where I would try to get one of the guys who has helped me in the past continue at least next year in one phase of the project, either cutting or baling. That would give me hands on help at least the first year and he could continue to share in the sale. This should be a win win situation.

Thank you.

 

[ddivinia]

I really like the coveredge wrap, but I am having trouble finding a good used 467/468 that has a low bale count. I missed a deal on ebay on a 468 a couple of weeks ago . For what the used JD's are bringing here I can almost buy a new Hesston/MF 2746. They also have a cheaper 1700 series that will be at dealers in March with factory wrap.
Slippy, I would really check on what my closest dealers were while considering what to buy. I also like the Vermeer and NH machines but the nearest dealers for them are a couple of hours drive away from me.
Watch out for the cheap "reconditioned" units and when a dealer advertises a unit as "been thru our shop". Make sure it was really checked over as it went thru the shop and not just pressure washed. We have a local dealer who is famous for that.

Have you been watching machinefinder? Last time i looked there were a handful of balers up your way.

D.

 

[Slippy]

Yes and Fastline.

 

[ddivinia]

Let me try to answer some of the questions that have come up.

In my area, generally more cattle than horses. Most want round bales. So my thought was to start out with some round bales and can always pick up a square baler later.
-----

Agreed - good used square balers seem hard to find. People seem to hang onto them for ever. I am waiting for a good trade in at my dealer or a local deal.



The comments about the market are very true. I have been selling hay and already have some buyers set up as well as one can in this market.
-----

I am going to give a price break for pre-pay.



Transportation is a big issue. While the cattle farmers want larger bales, the horse folks want smaller and square bales. The tip over comments concern me, so from what you folks have said, I guess a 5x5 bail would be best.
-----

It really depends on how you transport them. if you put them side by side 10' wide of hay opens you to a lot o headaches if you go o public roads.

I am going to buy one of these two trailers - have not made up my mind yet.

HeavyBilt

or

Orange Ox Livestock Equipment - Orange Ox™ Self Un-loading Hay Trailers

Really depends on how much and how far.



My grass is not as thick as most. It is generally made up of Timothy, Fescue and clover. So although 250 acres sounds like a lot, I estimate that in a fair yeild year I could get 750 1000 to 1200lb bales.
------
That is a lot lower than I figured. That is still a lot of bales to move around.



Budget is always an issue. Don't have a specific dollar amount but need to factor in return. Although I can do the mechnical work, it is not cost effective in my mine...so I would rather spend the extra dollars and get good equipment that is not going to break down.
--------

Used balers can be found in good shape, but there is a lot of junk out there.
Cutters - seem to only find junk.
Rakes - hard to kill


I have gotten some prices on a building and they are steep. Going to check on wood now instead of metal.
-----

My experience is wood is way more expensive than steel down here.



I can reduce the cost significantly if the roof height is reduced to 16 feet. If I do that, and do 5x6 bales, how would they stack? How high can you stack them safely?
----

Are you staking them on their side? They will stack better that way. Will want an attachment on your loader for it.



I have found a NH cutter conditioner that will probalby be about 15k, one year use. I think it is about 9 foot. Is that a good price?
----

No idea.

Check on machinefinder.com



I have been activley engaged in the hay production over the last years and active in selling the hay. So, I am not completly new to this whole thing, I just have not purchased my own equipment. I know there is a lot to learn.

I was thinking about trying to work out a situation where I would try to get one of the guys who has helped me in the past continue at least next year in one phase of the project, either cutting or baling. That would give me hands on help at least the first year and he could continue to share in the sale. This should be a win win situation.
------

I am doing the same. My John Deere Dealer is going to send out a tech to help ensure the equipment is setup and make some hay with me. Since I bought a used baler, I will be paying an hourly rate. If I had bought a new baler - that field time is included. My dealer has been a great resource.

D.