Has anyone split a Farmall Super C?

   / Has anyone split a Farmall Super C? #11  
I split my b a couple years back for a total engine rebuild. You can have them split pretty fast. One thing regarding ring gears…
I was putting a new clutch in also, and resurfacing the flywheel, so I figured I would put a new ring gear on. So I ordered a new one from Steiner, and dropped it off with the flywheel to the machinist. He pointed out that the original has little chamfers cut into each tooth, but the Steiner one did not. He said the straight cut gears will not engage as nice as the chamfered ones. He said it is the same issue if you flip them around. He said my gear looked good, but I ordered an OEM one anyway from CIH and it was the same as the Steiner one! So he said, if I must do something, then he would turn it 90 deg since they seem to always stop in the same place.
Obviously, if the ring gear is shot, then a square cut gear would be better than nothing, but I found the whole episode interesting. I had to send 2 ring gears back and paid hefty restocking fees.
 
   / Has anyone split a Farmall Super C? #12  
I replaced the ring gear on my Farmall 130 a year or so ago. I got it from Steiner and noticed the same thing. I also had the starter rebuilt by a local rebuilder I've been dealing with for years. I did notice the new starter gear has a pretty decent bevel to it, whereas the old worn one was somewhat rounded from wear. IIRC starter gears seemed to me more square instead of beveled like they are now.

I did convert it back to a 6V POS ground system, removing a 12V conversion hack job. Used the OEM spec battery, and went with 2/0 battery cables, plus made a new color coded wiring harness. I must say the starter engages nicely and haven't noticed any clash.
 
   / Has anyone split a Farmall Super C?
  • Thread Starter
#13  
Thank you Arlen4720 and DJ54. I will start the split job in a week or two and since I've never dealt with a ring gear before may need more info and clarification on the square vs chamfered teeth at that point. All this is new to me so I'm not up to speed. Your experience is very helpful.

Since many older Farmalls have had ring gear and starter issues I think whatever OEM was back then might have been a problem but that's just a hunch.
 
   / Has anyone split a Farmall Super C? #14  
Since it will be a week or so, something I found years ago that is extremely handy is to get 4, 8" long bolts to screw in from the engine side to the bell housing mounting bolt holes. These are strictly to be used as guide pins and keeps everything lined up going back together. I don't have a clue what you have to work with, but I bought a Harbor Freight HD transmission jack years ago to drop manual transmissions out of my 1 ton trucks. It's been my "go to" tool for when I split the smaller Farmalls too. Not necessary, just super handy. A good sized floor jack works well too. The point is, something to adjust height of transmission when going back together. Even with the long bolts as guide pins you can see any difference between top and bottom mating surfaces from the side. You can eyeball it, or measure, whatever works for you.

If you use the pto shaft method, once you feel the splines make contact with the clutch plate, do not force it together pulling it with bolts or you can damage the clutch plate. At this point you can remove a couple of the long guide pins, and replace with shorter ones, but longer than the bolts that hold it together. Using the rear tires, roll/push/jiggle it back together. Here's where the top/bottom distance is important. If it's pretty close it will go together pretty easy. Tighten the shorter bolts finger tight to keep what you have and keep sides even. If you have a helper it may make it a bit easier if it's your first time. If it acts like it's binding a bit, once you get through the clutch disc, and starting into the pilot bushing, it's close enough together you can push the clutch pedal down to relieve any strain on alignment. The clutch disc just does fit in the flywheel recess, so it's pretty close to being aligned in place. But releasing the clutch will allow the tapered end of the input shaft to go into the pilot bushing.

And before going back together, take a smidge of good quality bearing grease on the end of your finger, and fill the dimple on the end of the input shaft to lubricate it inside the pilot bushing. This is assuming you're using no new parts as far as the clutch assy., or pilot bushing.

"IF" once apart and it looks like the pilot bushing needs replaced, you can use a proper sized bolt ( I'm thinking it's 1/2". I have an old bolt with threads cut off, and use the long shoulder of the bolt to use as a punch.) Pack the pilot bushing 1/2 - 3/4 full of grease, then smack the bolt/punch with a decent sized hammer. The hydraulic pressure should pop it right out. And if installing a new bushing, make sure to fit the input shaft in the bushing before going back together. I have an extra one out of a BN I bought for parts I keep around for this, but again a rod that measures the same as the input shaft will work. Seems a guy never has enough tools to make things easier, LOL...
.

I replied to a thread a couple year ago where a guy replaced the clutch assy., and pilot bushing. Apparently he'd smooshed the pilot bushing when installing, and sorta' forced the input shaft in it. Couldn't figure out why the clutch wouldn't release. Actually it was but the pilot bushing was tight enough on the input shaft, it was turning. Ended up having to split the tractor again to fix the problem. And these last 2 paragraphs are strictly for "just in case". Keep us updated on your progress..!!

*** One other thing came to mind, while you have it apart. If the input flange seal is leaking going in the transmission, might be a good time to replace it. Those drive flanges get a slight wear groove in them, and will leak if just replacing the seal. Found this out years ago, long before I knew they made those wear sleeves. Several places sell a kit (Pretty sure Steiner is one.) that includes the seal, and a speedi-sleeve that fits over the flange/yoke. seems they are around $35.00. And can be replaced the torque tube from the transmission about 4"-5". Another good place for those long bolts as guide pins. You'll need to disconnect the flex coupling from the flange. Just don't separate enough the input shaft drops out of the clutch disc. Remove the cap screw holding the flange/yoke onto the main shaft of the transmission, and pull it off (Mine came off real easy on the 130.) Then remove 3, 3/8" bolts holding the seal retainer on. Seal can be replaced on the bench, along with the speedi-sleeve on the flange. Kit came with a cup to drive the sleeve on, and a new gasket for the seal retainer. Again, this is a "just in case" thought while you have it apart.

I'm attaching a picture of when I replaced the one in my 130 a year or so ago. The one end of the sleeve has a bell shape to it, that in most cases is supposed to come off. There was enough clearance it didn't need to come off on this one, I'd imagine it'd be the same on a Super C.
 

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   / Has anyone split a Farmall Super C?
  • Thread Starter
#15  
DJ54--thank you for the excellent advice.

While I've done car clutches, etc, I've never split a tractor but am doing it in a shop with an old timer that's done many. He has the supports to handle the split pieces so I feel good about it. Another old timer is helping and he's pretty smart as well. I've also watched a Farmall splitting video on-line.

My plan is to get things apart and then fully understand the above posts when I can better see what's going on.Surely something will be leaking or need replacing too so I'll figure that out when the flywheel is out getting the ring gear either replaced or reversed. I'm also having the starter bendix replaced. I don't fully understand the square tooth ring gear thing so will ask questions of arlen4720 later when I get closer.

Thank you.
 
   / Has anyone split a Farmall Super C?
  • Thread Starter
#16  
So far, it's easy with all the advice and are now waiting for parts. Clutch good, flywheel good and no leaks. Still looking for problems and have an old time capable mechanic doing it with me. He's the lead guy and knows his stuff.



IMG_2728.jpgIMG_2729.jpg

Here's where we are now.
 
   / Has anyone split a Farmall Super C? #17  

One of many videos in a series on restoring a Super C.
 
   / Has anyone split a Farmall Super C?
  • Thread Starter
#18  
   / Has anyone split a Farmall Super C? #19  
I've done a couple, plus other IH's similar, but mine have narrow front ends. I prefer to block the front, but I have a chain hoist on a beam to hold the engine/front end in place and roll the rear end away. When going back together engage the pto, put an adjustable wrench on the pto shaft turning it to move the tractor back together. I do this by myself, so using the pto to move the tractor saves a lot of pushing, and maybe getting out of align. When it's close enough I use 8" long bolts threaded in basically guide pins. Once the input shaft is starting to mate with the splines on the clutch disc, you can feel them mesh through turning the pto shaft. From that point on I use shorter bolts, then roll forward by hand and chase it up tightening the bolts as I go. I also fill the dimple in the front of the input shaft with a good bearing grease to lube the pilot bushing.
I cut the heads off my alignment bolts and saw straight in the end with a hacksaw so I can remove with a screwdriver. Most times I don't have to, but, just in case I do. And, be sure you put the long bolts in places they won't hit the other half of tractor before make up.
 
   / Has anyone split a Farmall Super C?
  • Thread Starter
#20  
All back together with a $45 new ring gear and new starter Bendix. The Case IH ring gear was tempting ($112) but the parts guy said he was near certain it came from the same place as the $45 one.

The clutch and flywheel looked fine, there were no hidden oil leaks and disassembly and reassembly went smooth. I did it in an Amish/Mennonite guy's shop that was heated and he provided the guidance because he has done lots of them over the years.

Thanks for the guidance on this and here's the together pic below.

IMG_2749.jpg
 
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