hard keeper thoroughbred horse

[WTA]

Do any of you own any hard keepers? By that I mean hard to keep weight on? We have a 13 year old thoroughbred mare that is hard to keep weight on. She's the only one like this here. We also have an American warmblod, a quarterhorse, a foxtrotter/appy mix and a 20 week old colt from the foxtrotter.

None of them are skinny and in fact they get overweight very easily.

This thoroughbred is a hard keeper though. She spent 3 years on the track before becoming a ranch horse out in California and then she moved here about 4 years ago. We got her 2 years ago and while she hasn't really lost much weight she has sure not gained any. She always seems to have just a bit of rib showing. It's gotten more noticeable now in the winter. We're keeping all the horses off pasture until the wheat catches up a little so we are feeding hay and grain. Recently we have upped this ones rations to way more than everyone else and begun a much more involved exercise program.
I found something called chopped alfalfa at tractor supply. It's chopped alfalfa and timothy in a bag. It's really green and fresh looking. We can't get timothy any other way here so I thought this would help. Anyway, her feeding schedule now is

2 scoops of chopped alfalfa/timothy 3 times a day
2 flakes of our giant bermuda hay 3 times a day
1 scoop of 12% pleasure horse feed from dumore twice a day.
She only gets hay and chopped hay in the lunch time feeding and gets exercised when she is done.

We are also using a weight gain supplement from dumore twice a day.

Does this new feeding and exercise schedule sound adequate for her now to get her body condition back up to where it needs to be?

Do any of you with thoroughbreds have any different have any different suggestions to get her back to that race horse look?

 

[bigbull338]

theres a few things you might want todo that might help the mare hold her weight.take her to the vet an have her teeth checked.they may need tobe floated.an also worm her.an also you might want to change her over to a senior horse feed.

 

[WTA]

We have her scheduled to get her teeth floated again next month. It's done once a year on all of ours. Worming is on a schedule too and she's up to date. I just did her yesterday as a mater of fact. We're good on worms though. I have about 80 chickens that don't let a pile of manure sit on the ground more than 5 seconds before scratching it into the dirt. It really helps a lot with the flies annd worms not having piles all over the place.

Here's a picture of her.

She is the one on the left. My warmblood is the gray in the middle and my young quarterhorse is the one on the right.

Lena is the only one that is underweight looking. It's hard to see in the picture but her ribs are showing just a little and she just has that old look to her. Her life hasn't been that hard though. We are really getting on the exercise lately though. Hopefully we will be able to fix it. I plowed up the arena last night and we are about to go have another 2 hour exercise session.

 

[zzvyb6]

Throw some corn into the girl and wait for it to come out. If its unchewed, then she's not getting good digestion.

Corn will put some heat into her, too. I had an Arab/Hunter with the same issue. Timothy / grass is not for weight gain, its to keep their stomach working and your fences intact.

Oats and corn will get some energy and protein into her system. Need a lot of water available to help this process, too.

 

[QRTRHRS]

Purina Ultium. Only out a couple of years now, it was formulated for high performance horses but we have seen better results than with Purina Equine Senior for some of our elderly horses.

In fact, we had a someone bring in a throughbred that had been starved to the point where many thought he ought to be put down. We brought in a vet, had his teeth done and slowly over about a six month period got him back into pretty good shape.

Like any new food, start out with small amounts. We actually had that old gelding on about four quarts of grain a day until he got to looking good again.

We only gave him timouthy hay during that time.

 

[Rara Avis]

Flaked Barley...

 

[HickoryNut]

I've always considered Dumore products the Ol' Roy of horse feed.

 

[blueriver]

Sometimes some just require more feed. Here are some suggestions take them for what you feel they are worth.

Every once in awhile a horse will become immune to the type of wormer you are using. Try switching. Here, we use Ivomectrin Catttle injectable for horse's... have for several years ... 1CC per hundred weight... so for a thousand lb horse 10CC directly in the mouth like a paste wormer.

Pen her off seperate, with the same diet, add free choice good quality grass hay, free choice mineral/salt block lick and ample fresh water. Let her eat all the grass hay she wants! Lick all the mineral she wants (may become loose as a goose the first few days of the mineral lick) The more lick the more water the more grass hay consumption.

My ranch mares and geldings are free choice grass hay fed and even the hardest keeper is keeping and only on grass hay. The horse's we use everyday that are working get grain 1X a day. I use the ivomectrin every 6 months.

My opinion, just like a human, exercise will tone the muscle and burn the fat. If she doesn't need the muscle, but needs the fat back off the exercise.

Just my thoughts ...

 

[HickoryNut]

Looking at the pic again, note the lack of shine in her coat, pretty obvious next to the bay. That's a very strong indicator of worm problems.

 

[WTA]

I asked the vet a few months ago about the lack of shine in her coat. He checked her for worms then and didn't find any intestinals but went and wormed her anyway. They are all shaggy now with winter too and that day we did some swimming and running in the mud going after cows so she looks a little more dull than normal. We worm every 6 weeks though ourselves and rotate every type of horse wormer there is in the schedule.

You all should have seen her yesterday. My gray warmblood is always the fastest one around here and the one most willing to do things but yesterday my son was running all over the place on the TB with out even having to ask really. We rode about 5 hours or so. She had a great day. I learned it's not even possible to keep up with a thoroughbred no matter what kind of horse you are on. I can outdistance her in a all out run with my horse but not out run her. My gray was so mad about not being able to catch her a couple times. Her stride is just so long compared to his that it's not going to happen. Lightening, the gray horse, was snorting and flinging his head around at her for running off like that. He almost popped me in the face doing that once because we were running all out and I was sortof laying forward just hanging on to his mane and the reigns at the same time.

What did you mean by considering dumore as the old roy of feeds? Is that good or bad? Only one place around here even sells it and I've tried all the other kinds from the feedstore. Noone here sells purina anymore. I used to use that brand a lot. It doesn't make sense, we have a mill here that makes all the purina brands but it's all sold for export.

 

[tallyho8]

Every once in awhile a horse will become immune to the type of wormer you are using. Try switching. Here, we use Ivomectrin Catttle injectable for horse's... have for several years ... 1CC per hundred weight... so for a thousand lb horse 10CC directly in the mouth like a paste wormer. QUOTE]

If this works for you, fine, keep doing it. But please don't recommend it to others. There have been numerous problems giving cattle ivermectin to horses. Horse paste ivermectin can be bought for as little as $2 a tube and has the same ingredients but is designed to be used on horses without the possible complications.

 

[blueriver]

Every once in awhile a horse will become immune to the type of wormer you are using. Try switching. Here, we use Ivomectrin Catttle injectable for horse's... have for several years ... 1CC per hundred weight... so for a thousand lb horse 10CC directly in the mouth like a paste wormer. QUOTE]


If this works for you, fine, keep doing it. But please don't recommend it to others. There have been numerous problems giving cattle ivermectin to horses. Horse paste ivermectin can be bought for as little as $2 a tube and has the same ingredients but is designed to be used on horses without the possible complications.

Not a recommendation, a suggestion. Thats what forums are, ask for ideas, etc ... By the way it was Recommended to us by the Federal Vet. As well as to use on our dogs and cats!

I was told, the difference between the so called $2 a tube and this is that this works!!

BTW ... what have the complications been?

 

[HickoryNut]

Dumor feed is contracted out by TSC to whatever mill can make it to meet their minimum bid specs at the lowest price, the same as Wmart does for Ol Roy dog food. There are rumors that Dumor is mfg'd by Purina but with the current economy it could just as likely be entering this country on a boat. Irregardless, the manufacturer is anonymous, therefore QC is out the window and quality is a crapshoot.

When you say scoop, what size? I've only owned one Tbred years ago but the main reason we got rid of her was her expense to feed, two quarts twice a day of a 1/2 and 1/2 blend of Purina Strategy 16% and a local milled oats/barley sweet feed 14%. And she liked to bolt it down too, forcing me to dole it out in cupfulls when I had the time. You should at least try stepping up to a 14% Dumor which will have less filler and be more digestible.

I can't find an ingredients list on the web for Dumor feed, I'd like to see one. Do they put mfg date on the bags?

 

[HickoryNut]

I'll agree that the $2 generic ivermectins don't work near as well as the name brands. They all tout the 1.87% active ingredient but something's different.

I'm all for what works though, I drink Farnam Fluidflex for horses everyday because it relieves my arthritic joints better than any joint supplement made for humans. And a bowl of fresh high-fiber Equine Senior for breakfast is just what I need some mornings to "get going".

 

[tallyho8]

Not a recommendation, a suggestion. Thats what forums are, ask for ideas, etc ... By the way it was Recommended to us by the Federal Vet. As well as to use on our dogs and cats! I was told, the difference between the so called $2 a tube and this is that this works!! BTW ... what have the complications been?

Please excuse me if you took offense at my reply, but there have been so many animals harmed by using wormers intended for other species that I am reluctant to ever recommend that anyone do that without first doing lots of research on the subject and being knowledgeable enough to know how to convert the dosage for their intended species.

There have been numerous studies done that prove that injectable ivermectin does not work better in horses than paste ivermectin. One popular internet supplier sells 50 ml Ivomec for $35. A 10 ml dose would cost $7. He sells the horse ivermectin paste for $2. They both provide the same treatment but why spend $5 more for the liquid.

There have been numerous complications injecting horses with cattle ivermectin but since you mentioned using it orally I will not dwell on those. The main complication with using it orally it that some times it is inhaled into the horses lungs instead of being swallowed creating pneumonia-like conditions.

Also, it is much easier to overdose an animal on the liquid because horse dosages are different from cattle dosages and the instructions are for dosage in cattle. In all studies that I have seen they give a 1000 pound horse 5 ml yet you give 10 ml?

Liquid ivermectin is safe when used in dogs for heartworm prevention when used in the correct dosage, but thousands of people have killed their dogs by overdosing them with this product due to their inability to correctly figure the dosage or by relying on info from their friends. Example: A Heartgard tablet for a 40 pound dog contains about the same amount of ivermectin as in 1/25 ml of 1% injectable cattle Ivomec, yet many people give that dog 1 ml of Ivomec which is 25 times too much and will kill some dogs almost instantly and make most die of liver or kidney disease in years to come if used on a regular basis.

 

[WTA]

A friend of mine killed his rotweiller a couple years ago worming it with cattle stuff.
Horse wormers are designed where you can't overdose really. With cattle wormer you can. That's the big problem. It's poison after all. Cattle often get worm loads much much bigger than horses and they also have 4 stomachs and are less prone to stomach upsets (colic) than horses. I only use stuff labeled for horses. Unless a vet tells me otherwise anyway. I had one actually prescribe a cattle wormer for a dog I rescued once for heartworms. He had it bad and the stuff worked but it nearly killed him. He would have died otherwise so I didn't have much of a choice. He was a good old dog. A treeing walker. We had a lot of good hunts together till one day on the farm he went off after a mountain lion while trying to protect our calves. We never saw him again and we looked for days with no luck.

 

[JESSE1]

Has your vet taken a blood sample? At least that would help diagnose if there's some type of mineral deficiency.

 

[Soundguy]

I'm far from a horse expert.. but i do have quarter horse's mini's and have had TB's.. mules.. etc. ( all pleasure animals.. )

IMHO.. unlimited access to grass or good forage.. like the green chop or hay is needed... PLUS 2 scoops of feed a day. I have a mix of younger to older horses, and the older they get the harder it is to keep weight on them. Oldest i have is/were 24 ys old qt's and TB's.. the TB was hard to keep weight on. Fed unlimited grass.. or bermuda hay, plus hay cubes softened in water ( same as your green chop... ).. Plus 2 scoops of 14% mature feed.

1 scoop 10% or 12% may not be enough feed...

soundguy

Do any of you own any hard keepers? By that I mean hard to keep weight on? We have a 13 year old thoroughbred mare that is hard to keep weight on. She's the only one like this here. We also have an American warmblod, a quarterhorse, a foxtrotter/appy mix and a 20 week old colt from the foxtrotter.

None of them are skinny and in fact they get overweight very easily.

This thoroughbred is a hard keeper though. She spent 3 years on the track before becoming a ranch horse out in California and then she moved here about 4 years ago. We got her 2 years ago and while she hasn't really lost much weight she has sure not gained any. She always seems to have just a bit of rib showing. It's gotten more noticeable now in the winter. We're keeping all the horses off pasture until the wheat catches up a little so we are feeding hay and grain. Recently we have upped this ones rations to way more than everyone else and begun a much more involved exercise program.
I found something called chopped alfalfa at tractor supply. It's chopped alfalfa and timothy in a bag. It's really green and fresh looking. We can't get timothy any other way here so I thought this would help. Anyway, her feeding schedule now is

2 scoops of chopped alfalfa/timothy 3 times a day
2 flakes of our giant bermuda hay 3 times a day
1 scoop of 12% pleasure horse feed from dumore twice a day.
She only gets hay and chopped hay in the lunch time feeding and gets exercised when she is done.

We are also using a weight gain supplement from dumore twice a day.

Does this new feeding and exercise schedule sound adequate for her now to get her body condition back up to where it needs to be?

Do any of you with thoroughbreds have any different have any different suggestions to get her back to that race horse look?

 

[KennethBrown]

Lots of advice out here already but I'll add mine to the mix too. My QH mares always keep real well even without grains and hay, just a halfway decent pasture. My stud is a TB (Grandson of Dash for Cash) and is a rail job. He is extremely hard to put any type of finish on. We also had an Arabian mare that we were breeding at the time that was a hard keeper. Rice bran will help alot. You need to use a real moist feed and mix it in good so it doesn't get snorted while their eating, snorting up can lead to pnuemonia. We also tried the liquid supplements from the feed stores. In researching them found out that they are really nothing more than vegtable oil. I went to Sam's Club and bought 5 gallons of oil for less than $20.00. I'd add about 2 cups a day to 5-6 pounds of grain (we used 12% all stock or 12% pelletized sweet feed) along with a flake of coastal hay or 2-3 pounds of cubed/baled alfalfa. This really helped the mare out. It helped the TB stud out also but its just his nature to be thin. You can make a TB look like a big QH but you gotta really pour feed on them and then their usually too "hot" to deal with. Try to gradually add the oil to the diet. It'll sleek up the coat and put weight on without alot of extra calories.

 

[WTA]

This one has Dash for cash in there too. Pretty cool! Maybe it is something to do with the genes???


This horse has been too hot before and it scared my son how much she wanted to run. He can handle it now though. We were feeding her a different brand of feed back then but I forget the name of it.

I usually do let them out on pasture every day. In an ideal year my wheat and rye field would be knee deep by now but with the lack of rain it's barely staying green. It's maybe 6 inches tall is all. It's growing but I let them out on it once a week and they are holding it at that level.

We have a really nice summer pasture though. They are always out on that from about April till October. It's Giant bermuda and I irrigate and fertilize the tar out of it for hay production. I always cross fence off a section of it for the horses and go a little easier on the fertilizer where they are. Last fall I threw out some alfalfa seed on that part for them too so they will have a nice mix come spring.