Ground Issues?

[Jon@HannenFamilyFarm]

I have a Branson 3120R that I thought was having starter issues. Bought it used, had a few hammer marks on the starter from previous owner. Everything worked well for quite a while but then one day I shut if off and it would not restart. Lights on dash would come on with key in "on" position but all would go dead when turning the key to the start position. Checked battery, it was good. Pulled starter, bench tested it, it was good. Put starter back in and had the same issue. New starter is $500, so I took my starter in to starter shop. They said it looked great and tested out 'good'. I ran over the scenario with them and they suggested looking for a ground issue. Put the starter back in to the same problem. Put a meter on the battery and at the starter and when you would try to start the voltage would drop to '0'. After much frustration working my way through the electrical system, I skipped over the factory ignition switch and installed a stand alone starter button to get me up and running again which worked for a couple months... Nephew stalled the tractor yesterday and now we are back to square one with all the same symptoms, but now it is happening even when using the stand alone starter switch. Any advice or ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thank you all in advance.

 

[Midniteoyl]

You very well could have a ground problem as advised. There was a while when some manufacturers used cables prone to corrosion inside the insulation, so best to start there. Remove the ground wire from the battery and jumper from the battery's negative to engine/frame with a jumper cable and try again. If it starts, clean and inspect the ground cable. You might have to replace it.

 

[MasseyFerg231]

Bad relay??

 

[Jon@HannenFamilyFarm]

You very well could have a ground problem as advised. There was a while when some manufacturers used cables prone to corrosion inside the insulation, so best to start there. Remove the ground wire from the battery and jumper from the battery's negative to engine/frame with a jumper cable and try again. If it starts, clean and inspect the ground cable. You might have to replace it.

I'll check that out to see. I did try to jump negative from the battery to the starter housing with no luck, but something has to be creating a short to ground and robbing all the power. Thank you

 

[Jon@HannenFamilyFarm]

Bad relay??

I thought that too. Replaced them already, no luck. Checked all fuses and replaced both fuseable links. Thank you for your help.

 

[jaxs]

I'll check that out to see. I did try to jump negative from the battery to the starter housing with no luck, but something has to be creating a short to ground and robbing all the power. Thank you

Despite references to ground as a possible problem, positive cable can and often does the same way. Jump from positive post to lug on starter where positive cable connects. CARFUL ,this procedure by-passes all safty features so if tractor is in gear it can run over you when engine turns over.

 

[Jon@HannenFamilyFarm]

Despite references to ground as a possible problem, positive cable can and often does the same way. Jump from positive post to lug on starter where positive cable connects. CARFUL ,this procedure by-passes all safty features so if tractor is in gear it can run over you when engine turns over.

Have done this as well during all of the trouble shooting. I currently have a direct cable from the battery + to the starter lug and a 20 amp push button starter switch wired direct from battery + through switch to solenoid bypassing all of the factory electrical and safety. Thank you for your help, I appreciate it.

 

[Fuddy1952]

Try this in order using meter, making sure tractor in neutral, brake on.
1) meter across battery, should be about 12.5 volts. _________?
2) meter across battery in crank position. ________?
3) leave meter -- negative lead on battery. Positive lead on starter case. Should be zero volts, off & cranking. _________?
4) now meter positive + lead on battery positive +. Negative lead on starter terminal.
Should be zero volts off & cranking. ________?

 

[Jon@HannenFamilyFarm]

Try this in order using meter, making sure tractor in neutral, brake on.
1) meter across battery, should be about 12.5 volts. _________?
2) meter across battery in crank position. ________?
3) leave meter -- negative lead on battery. Positive lead on starter case. Should be zero volts, off & cranking. _________?
4) now meter positive + lead on battery positive +. Negative lead on starter terminal.
Should be zero volts off & cranking. ________?

1) meter across battery, should be about 12.5 volts. ___12.78
2) meter across battery in crank position. __12.75
3) leave meter -- negative lead on battery. Positive lead on starter case. Should be zero volts, off & cranking. off 0 crank 0
4) now meter positive + lead on battery positive +. Negative lead on starter terminal.
Should be zero volts off & cranking. off 0, ignition in on position 3.49, crank 12.43

 

[Fuddy1952]

1 through 3 are OK. 12.78v means really good battery. 2) is OK since starter isn't cranking (should be roughly 10 to 11 volts while cranking.
"4) now meter positive + lead on battery positive +. Negative lead on starter terminal.
Should be zero volts off & cranking. off 0, ignition in on position 3.49, crank 12.43"
Your battery + positive cable goes to solenoid big terminal, other solenoid big terminal goes to starter. When cranking the solenoid small terminal gets power which engages solenoid so starter gets power.
If you use a jumper cable battery + positive to solenoid big terminal and it cranks normally...you need to replace battery to solenoid cable since you just bypassed it.
If you jumper battery positive to other side of solenoid which goes to starter it should crank. (Careful...it will spark...lots of current there, but it's just a quick test). If it doesn't crank, try at starter itself. If it does crank, replace this cable solenoid to starter since you just bypassed it.
Step 4) getting voltage from battery positive to solenoid & starter proves you have a bad cable or solenoid. NOW...meter negative lead on ground you SHOULD measure 12 volts battery side of solenoid and small terminal and at starter when cranking.