Grey or Chinese?

Iplayfarmer · Dec 23, 2005

What are the advantages and disadvantages of a Grey market tractor vs. a Chinese tractor?

Right now I have one friend who is really interested in getting a small tractor like what I have. The guy I bought my tractor from is now selling the chinese tractors (Jinma). I would really like to get some input here as I coach my friend through the process.

DavesTractor · Dec 23, 2005

The question is so broad. Grays runs the gamut from old 2-cylinder 2wd units that are very simple and light, to 3 and 4 cylinder turbo's with power-steering, shuttle shift, power-shift and even some HST's here soon. Some of the newest grays have ROPS, but they are far and few betwwen. The quality is very high and they have features equal to and maybe even advance compared to the best new stuff from major brands. Of course these really nice late model units are not cheap. You'll need a good dealer that has a full service shop and stocks parts and has resources to get what he doesn't stock.

Chinese stuff is not Japanese quality, but is generally heavy and fairly simple, yet with power-steering and some have shuttle shift. Quality varies by manufacturer, as does support. You will be working on the Chinese tractor some, but more often for minor issues than major.

Another option is the non Big 3 brands, such as Mahindra, Branson, Lioti, Montana, TYM, etc. These are all very good machines.

Iplayfarmer · Dec 24, 2005

Thanks for the post, Dave. That gets me started... Bigger selection and more technology on the Japanese tractors.

Maybe another way to phrase the question is this...

If a guy has X amount of money that he could spend on a tractor, what could he get in a chinese tractor vs. what could he get in a grey market?

YanmarFever · Dec 24, 2005

What part of the Northwest are you in? I would hop in my vehicle and go visit a few dealers (just to look) and get an education. Ask a lot of questions and drive a few, I get customers that are just looking all the time & I dont mind educating them at all.
Im partial towards Yanmars, parts are easy to find,and its a recognized name, not only that but the tractors are great.
You have homework to do.

buppy69 · Dec 24, 2005

I'll take a 25 year old Japanese tractor over a brand new Chinese tractor any day. They just look better to me.

Eugene

Mahindra35 · Dec 24, 2005

Neither option fairs very well. There is just no substance to the Chinese tractors. They have no dealer network or guarantee that they will be around in the future. I am speaking from industry experience, parts are not readily available for Grey Market or Chinese tractors.

If price is the deciding factor buy a good used Korean or Japanese tractor.

Don't buy into the rebuilt or reconditioned grey market tractors. They are not rebuilt or reconditioned plain and simple,just cleaned up painted and new seats installed.

Look into a Mahindra or Kioti or Kubota for an older used unit
that is a REAL Tractor with a dealer network with real working implements.

I would not own a chinese manufactured FEL for any money.

Tractors 10 years old are always still very farm worthy if they
were maintained. One more note to everybody about grey
market. These Tractors were never meant to be sold in the
United States. They do not meet safety or design requirements as to PTO Operation, ROPS or emissions.

All the manufactures I mentioned above are manufactured for the American market and meet all requirements for design of operation and quality.

You can fine a 8 to 10 year old Korean or Japanese tractor
in 20 to 30 HP range starting around 4000.00 at most
auctions.

Delayed gratification is always the best way. If a certain amount of money is not available its better to wait till you have the increased funds and buy something of Substance.

LMTC · Dec 24, 2005

( parts are not readily available for Grey Market )
Absolutely not true for grey market Yanmars. We have an entire catalog of new parts for the grey Yanmar tractors, covering all but the oldest models. Most 00, 01, 02, 10, and 20 series units have very good aftermarket parts support. Why would you spread false information like this? Just yesterday I sold NEW pistons, rings, and a head gasket for a YM2200...could have also supplied the sleeves, but customer did not need them.

( All the manufactures I mentioned above are manufactured for the American market and meet all requirements for design of operation and quality )
What "requirements" are there for quality? Or "design of operation" for that matter? I would appreciate some clarification as to what that means.

( One more note to everybody about grey
market. These Tractors were never meant to be sold in the
United States. They do not meet safety or design requirements as to PTO Operation, ROPS or emissions. ) OK, kindly provide the source for this claim. Seriously, you are trashing grey market tractors here, so support your claims.

And while I don't much care for Chinese tractors either, are you going to renounce Mahindra when they start marketing their made-in-China model soon?

mark777 · Dec 24, 2005

Mahindra35,

Your opinion of grey market tractors is very negative and the information you have is antiquated or incorrect.

You should consider the fact that respectable dealers will only sell well supported tractors and equipment with parts and maintenance items on hand, or readily available.

The only two generalized complaints about grey's from owners that I'm aware of, come from purchases off of a make shift lot with no service facilities. These same "Dealers" buy a load of tractors thinking it's easy money, sell them and when problems start to mount, they close up that spot and move on to another location. And the second is purchases of "Rebuilt, Refurbished or Completely Overhauled" tractors NOT imported as used from Japan. Many (not all) of these dealers are unscrupulous money grubbing liars and will fight a new owner tooth and nail, to keep your money and not repair mechanical failures a new owner will have.

Perhaps the above instances are from what you draw your conclusions...but it is the "Black Eye" for the well established, knowledgeable and honest dealer -Usually the same honest dealer who has to deal with the peoples misfortune that buy them.

If you have owned or operated a Ford, MF, Allis Chalmers, Simplicity, Bolens or John Deere etc. diesel tractor under 50 HP in the last 15-20 years, it was most probably Japanese. Your point about not meant to be sold in the U.S. and meeting safety and design requirements, other than ROP's (and tires), it's just not true.

It is very difficult to find and afford an American tractor 10-20 years old that has less than 700-800 hours, and you can buy Japenese grey tractors with those hours all day long.

I am speaking from industry experience. Hope you investigate further into grey market tractors and dealers as you may be impressed with what is going on in the business.

Mark

buppy69 · Dec 24, 2005

I own 2 grey market Japanese tractors. Although they don't have ROPS, neither does a Ford 8N, Massey Ferguson 135 or an International 140. Both of my tractors are 23-24 years old and both have PTO shields, Clutch safety start switch and the transmission must be in the START position to crank. Furthermore all the decals are written in Japanese and English. If the Japanese hadn't planned for these to go to a foreign market, why decals in English?

Eugene

Mahindra35 · Dec 24, 2005

You can contact any of the manufactures of these
tractors, and they will tell you in WRITING that these models are not intended for the US Market.

As for Engine parts,they are very simple parts to find. Yanmar
supplies many tractor mfgrs with engines including JOHN DEERE, however when you talk power steering parts or shift linkage or transmission parts ,rear axles,steering boxes Pto shafts,fenders grills, hoods then you are talking a different story.

Most tractors wont experience many internal engine problems,but high wear parts like linkages,sheet metal and steering, axle and hydraulic pumps,hydraulic filters and cylinders etc and you open up a whole different issue as to parts availability and cost. There is MUCH MORE to a tractor
then its engine.

I am not bashing your business sir and I apologize if you feel that you have been treated less then fairly. I am sure you are very conscientious about your business and your service and you appear very willing to stand behind your product in the very best way you can.

I gave an informed opionin based on my experience in the pursuit of a tractor purchase.and I have stated what I know from taking over two years to purchase my particular tractor as well as looking at nearly every Grey market tractor out there as well as reading and listening to forums on these units. One doesnt have to look far: for there are plenty of web sites devoted to Grey market tractors.

Several years ago a client asked to me evaluate the purchase of three Yugo sedans for his Pizza delivery business.

I had first hand knowledge of the Mechanical aspect of the vehicle and informed him that though Mechanically they were
satisfactory for the the price they were marketed for that they would be a disposible vehicle when major repairs came along and that world conditions in respect to Yugoslavia may be a concern for the continued flow of parts and service to this country. Today there are no Yugo dealers and the manufacture no longer exports automobiles.

Not all grey market tractors use Yanmar engines. Yanmar
dos not necessarliy make the entire tractor just as My Mahindra has a Daedong engine but the tractor is built by TYM,
not Kioti.

As for Mahindra and China that would be their business decisio
My Mahindra is built by TYM a Korean Consortium, Mahindra itself is a India based manufacture that does not manufacture my particular model tractor but in name only. If they chose to market a Chinese tractor my first inclination would be to stay away from that Model/Models

Maybe you would be able to help the individual who is looking
at the grey market option and possibly make a sale and possibly make it a could fit for this individual.

Not all parts of the country will always be able to make that statement,but please understand that doesnt mean that your customers would all have the same pitfalls.

For those still interested here is a website link to a statement
from Yanmar about Grey Market Tractors

http://www.yanmar.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=13&CATEGORY_ID=

http://www.yanmar.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=10