Grey or Chinese?

mark777 · Jan 27, 2006

rlee6,

I have not actually seen this, but have you heard of these tractors having such high porosity in their castings that they actually weep engine and hydraulic oils through the cases (and onto the ground)?

Having heard from reliable sources and other dealers that has happened, does that not support Tractor Ernie's statement concerning the strength and engineering aspects of tractors from China? Please understand that I am in no position to debate their quality, but asking you as a metallurgical engineer, does that indicate the quality of materials used in their manufacturing process?

Thanks, Mark

EFC · Jan 27, 2006

We used to see weeping cases. Ernie is correct that the metal in the Chinese tractors is defiantly different than what we see from Japan. I would say that some metallurgy is visible from the naked eye. Anybody that would like to see a Chinese transmission wide open is more than welcome to stop by anytime, I have quite a few to look at, and your welcome to take all the broken parts you like and test them.

Buck

rlee6 · Jan 27, 2006

Oil weeing through the wall of casting! That's bad. I was a foundryman once and know about casting. I wonder if they are more into capitalism (the ugly side) than us, I mean, for greater profit forsake quality. Or is it an innocent lack of knowledge?

My employer has several offices throughout the nation and I have visited most of them. Unfortunately, they don't have one in Washington. Otherwise, I would swing by your place and pick up some parts for analysis. It would be interesting.

YanmarFever · Jan 27, 2006

China is sending rockets to the space and has atomic bombs. They must have the technologies of metal hardening, precision machining, etc, that they need to make good tractors. I don't know how much the technologies are employed by tractor companies. 

Like I said the chinese (the govt.) has the facilities to heat treat. not the tractor manufacturers.
Our govt. has the ability to do all that also, but not john deere!

kayssupply · Jan 27, 2006

I have seen the puddles under the Jinma tractors at Rural King farm store. I also had a customer looking at a Jinma that was at his neighbors . While the neighbor was turning in a tight circle , the front hub broke off and dropped the front end on the ground. Not urban legend.

Tractors4u · Jan 28, 2006

I was at the National Farm Machinary Show in Louisville KY a few years back and looked at a Chinese tractor there that had a puddle of oil under it.

buppy69 · Jan 29, 2006

I looked at some Nortracs at Northern Tool and also saw puddles of oil under them.

Eugene

johnk · Jan 29, 2006

I see puddles of oil under a lot of Harley Davidsons so whats up with that?? I have a chinese tractor and it works fine. Eveything has its problems. You's are all looking for a justification of why you own Japenese, Asian or whatever. You probably drive foreign cars also... Easy to slander what you never owned..Relax.....It's only a tractor...

EFC · Jan 30, 2006

I have owned 500+ Chinese tractors; I think that gives me the right to speak about them as much as anybody who might own 1 or 2. I still have a DF354 at my ranch. We are not saying you shouldn’t buy Chinese tractors we are just providing the real world experience with them that we were asked to provide.

My Buell doesn’t leak a drop

Buck

HGM · Jan 30, 2006

Buck,
Isnt it funny how Harley hasnt produced a leaking bike for 20yrs, but folks always bring up the AMF years? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

johnk · Jan 30, 2006

It was just innovative design with the chain oilers. Made em look like it was a problem leak but just a lubrication breakthrough... All tractors are good tractors if you get the work out of them to add up to the money you paid for em...

shvl73 · Jan 30, 2006

( I see puddles of oil under a lot of Harley Davidsons so whats up with that?? )
I won't speak for them all but, mine just marks it's parking spot for future reference /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif.

HGM · Jan 30, 2006

I believe that one of the points that are being made here is that the Chineese tractors are not bad tractors. They do what they do and what they are supposed to do. The issue is, will they hold up over time.. Apparently they leak and have breakage issues not common with the Japaneese models, but quality will surely improve over time.

Anyhow, thats what I got out of this thread so far. Dont know if that helps anyone, I just think the some guys who own Chineese are taking some of this discussion as a personal attack. I dont believe it is meant to be that way, the guys that are responding negativly are known for their honest opinions of personal experience.

crazymike · Jan 30, 2006

For those elitists saying their grey markets are superior, etc... etc...Or Chinese tractors are junk and the like.

Growing up on a farm we have literaly had millions and millions of dollars worth of equipment go through here. From american made to Japanese and now experimenting with Chinese tractors. I can tell you that these chinese tractors are further ahead than when Kubotas started pouring over here. And Kubota was marketing to agricultural farmers, not hobby farmers. Kubota sent over reps and worked on the problems.

I can also tell you that just because you have seen X chinese tractor leaking or a hub break off doesn't mean ANYTHING. Because guess what, they ALL have problems.

We had a brand new $90,000 ford versatile pivot bearing fail with less than 20 hours. It took 8 days to get the part and required splitting the tractor.

We had a kubota zero turn engine seize with less than 20 hours because of an engine failure.

A $70,000 massey has a random starting issue and the dealer tech has no idea what it could be and keeps giving alternative solutions.

Newflash, every brand has it's problems no matter the manufacturer. I've talked to many people who got a chinese tractor and never had a problem. I've met people who had one with 2 weeks and got rid of it. I know people that have purchased a John Deere and it's still running now, 50 years later. I know people who had one a month and had to get the dealership to buy it back.

The new ford trucks are having problems left right and center. Does that make ford a bad company? No, because all the other manufacturers had their bad runs.

You have to buy what suits your needs and floats your boat. If you do your research there is nothing wrong with any Countries brand. The chinese have improved their quality 10 fold. And for the people who only put on a few hours a week, it's perfect.

I find it humorous the sites showing "broken" chinese tractors are showing pictures of tractors brands I've never heard of, or one from 20 years ago. Go make friends with a Kubota dealer and see how many issues they have when they get shipments. Or a John Deere or any brand. They all have them.

You don't buy a hummer because you have to take a dirt road to get grocceries. But if you have to forge through rivers, etc... it's worth while.

boat_guy · Jan 30, 2006

Couldn't have said it better myself crazy mike.

EFC · Jan 30, 2006

Breathe!!...Breathe!! Your going to turn blue if you don't breathe.

YanmarFever · Jan 30, 2006

Thats really something to go from $90,000 tractors down to the bottom chinese tractors. hummmm ??

crazymike · Jan 30, 2006

No, we rent out 2 farms to horse owners.

Currently we look after any tractor work at the property. However, having a tractor on site would save us time and better suit the tenants. One of them has expressed wanting to look after more of the property themselves and has been a family friend for several years. Buying a $25,000 CUT for the site is not economical. Buying a chinese tractor is much more suitable.

We have also looked into selling them. Assumptions are the mother of all mistakes.

Mickey_Fx · Jan 31, 2006

The real issue is, is the problem a fluke or is it inherient in the design, material's or workmanship. Having to deal with Chinese suppliers on site, I've found it more likely the later than the former. Few Co's in China have the knowledge, experience and are focused on qlty to the point they can be considered world class suppliers. Things are changing but they still have a long way to go.