Green Horn

[Spiveyman]

Howdy Appygirl, and welcome again. First of all, 3 - 4 foot snow banks?!?! I have great respect for those of you who work in those conditions. I have a brother & sis -in-law up there who ride snow mobiles to work in the winter (just outside of the Silver Lake area). Yikes! Last winter we only fed about 6 round bales all season to the cattle, there was only a couple dustings and plenty of grass on the land because of all the rain. That will be different this year.

Most horse people down here use square bales as the rotting on the outside of the round bales can be more detrimental to a horse's digestive system than a cows. We square bale for the horses, round for the cattle.

As for moving the big ones, we have huge round bales, I want to say 6X6, but I have a buddy bale it for me with his big NH so I don't know the specs. All I know is that I spent last season moving all those bales with a small MF with a 3pt spear with no front weights and had to steer with the brakes because the front tires just skimmed the ground. Not a good idea. I did load them on the back of a flat bed from the ground with just the 3pt spear, so you don't HAVE to have a FEL spear to do that, although it would be easier.

This year I bought a bigger tractor (Ford 6610), No problem at all moving the bales on the 3pt and I don't have any weights on the front. You probably don't want something that big, but we have 170 acres to mess with. The best suggestion I've heard so far is to attack the snow with the FEL with a round bale on the 3pt.

The other thing, it sounds like you are looking for a new tractor, have you considered a used one? There are some awesome tractors out there, I say made better than some newer ones that you can pick up for not too much cash. Personally I don't think you can beat the 80's and 90's model Fords. My papaw has a Ford 3910, '88 model I think, it's been a perfect tractor, never had to do anything to it. I found mine on the internet and it's been great.

Good luck with your search, it should be fun!

 

[Z-Michigan]

Most horse people down here use square bales as the rotting on the outside of the round bales can be more detrimental to a horse's digestive system than a cows. We square bale for the horses, round for the cattle.

Yeah, this is a good point - make sure you can get the type and quality of hay you want in round bales before you make that a factor. We are able to because it's baled from our own hayfield and we move it into our barn the same day. But most people baling rounds for sale won't be storing it inside, at least not immediately.

Interesting aside - farmer doing our round bales told us that we need to be careful about putting them inside within the first 1-2 weeks after baling, because round bales always heat up in that time period and there is the potential for them to catch fire. In our case we're ok because we have spacing between the bales and we have checked their temps and have no issue. But this precludes conventional tight stacking like you'd do on a commercial basis. Meaning - not many sellers of rounds are going to be able to say they were never rained on.

Bear in mind that with even a small CUT with FEL you could put 4-6 square bales into the FEL bucket and take that out to the pasture quite easily. This could also be done with a "Carry-all" on the 3pt. Or you could pull a little trailer with that quantity or more. You would still be handling bales by hand to some extent, but not nearly as much as if you had no tractor.

The main reason we went to rounds is not having any labor force ready to stack several hundred squares within 24 hours of baling. We're actually going to be unrolling rounds in the barn and just tossing our horse flakes from the round bale on a daily basis, to avoid the waste if we just put a single round in the pasture.

We will have 3rd cutting alfalfa rounds for sale in a couple weeks!

 

[Appygirl]

Z what is the percentage of alfalfa in your hay?

Thanks again for you've all said. Yep, its good to know who you are dealing with when it comes to hay. I do realize that cattle utilized hay better and can just about handle anything they are feed, especially the rich alfalfa.
I know about heat with bales in storage. Another tip I got a few years ago to help with that is using 5" pvc pipe with many holes then place them down vertically in your stacks of hay and the heat can escape. Use as many as you feel necessary. I can't hold more then 450 in my garage. The sides are wood with about a 5 foot doorway on one side that goes out to the lean-tu. I do keep the main door open unless its going to rain.

I ran out of hay in March and looked around for some. This one guy had round bales of 1st cutting. He tried to tell me that it got rain on once and that the mold was only on the outside! Yeah RIGHT! Then his others were 50% alfalfa which was way to much for horses but great for cattle.
So back in the truck I went!! I did end up find a good hay supplier and plan on sticking with him. His bales are all uniformed and packed well; they're a bit heavy but I guess that's what keep me in shape.

I guess that was off the subject a bit...Grin

You know I could just drop this idea of round bales and problem solved.
I got thinking about the bale back on the 3pt; I'm sure there would be some rocking and I can see that bale wouldn't being more then a foot off the ground which means rough going. Am I wrong on that? How much can a 3pt lift without putting to much stress on the frame and how high would the bale be off the ground? The tractors I've looked at so far L3240 and MF1550.

It was mentioned to buy used, while I like that idea I just don't know enough to go it alone and spot any troubles. What I think I could do is buy new with support and warranty, then go used in a few years to a bigger tractor. By then I would hope to be more savy.

 

[Z-Michigan]

Our hay is about 95% alfalfa. First cutting is ok for horses, richer cuttings not a great idea if you don't have Kentucky Derby winners in your barn (and we don't). That's why we planted a field of grass hay this year, but unfortunately it won't be producing til next year. Now I just need to find someone to buy 10-15 round bales of 3rd cutting alfalfa. Anyone know a tiny scale dairy farm south of Lansing?

Back on point... when transporting round bales, I have the bottom of the bale not more than 12" above ground level, and often lower. You need to keep bales as low as possible for stability. I haven't yet used a 3pt spear (though I own one - just haven't used it yet!) but I expect it will lift maybe 1 to 2' off the ground at most. I think a 3ph can safely lift whatever it's rated for without straining the tractor, though some front end weight may be needed - if you have a FEL that will usually be enough counterbalance weight.

Since it sounds like you have a good hay supplier - have you found out what he has to offer? If it's going to be hard to buy the round bales you want anyway, then problem solved! I would still get something big enough to move rounds on the 3ph (like in case you need hay in March and only rounds are for sale), but that's not as big as needed to move them on FEL.

 

[Spiveyman]

Hey, Appygirl, first of all, didn't you start this thread? Then you have the right to wander a tad off topic. At least that's my thought. I'm a rabbit chaser, so perhaps I'm just trying to justify.

Bear in mind that with even a small CUT with FEL you could put 4-6 square bales into the FEL bucket and take that out to the pasture quite easily. This could also be done with a "Carry-all" on the 3pt.

A carry all is your best friend!!! Mine's probably on my tractor more than anything else it seems. Great for square bales for sure. Incindentally, they also carry kids quite well, which is what mine does half the time. Here's a picture of one I built from a frame I bought at the local TSC. It was pretty easy and have about $200 in the thing. Holds ~ 1,000 lbs. That's also the tractor I bought used on the internet for less than $13K. Just ask a ton of questions and check it out. Maybe I got lucky, but there are great tractors out there.

got thinking about the bale back on the 3pt; I'm sure there would be some rocking and I can see that bale wouldn't being more then a foot off the ground which means rough going. Am I wrong on that? How much can a 3pt lift without putting to much stress on the frame and how high would the bale be off the ground?

Yep, there's rocking, side to side, and up and down on a smaller tactor. I had one swing over and hit my rear wheel the other night while moving them from the back of the farm. It pulled a bunch of the sting off and the bale practically fell apart. If they are not really tight and you don't pick them up right they can bounce all over the place. Of course I could drive slower, but that's another thread. A 3pt on a small tractor is not going to lift that sucker very high, and if you try to pick it up low to get more ground clearance they are less stable on the spear. We do this when loading on a flatbed, so it can be done, but is tricky. You could also possibly adjust the stabilizer bars to limit the rocking side to side.

I can't imagine the stress it puts on the frame would be that great. If a tractor can't handle that, you might consider a different brand. Do you have TSC up there? They sell a great bale spear pretty cheap.

 

[Appygirl]

I like that carry all alot. Are those 1x4 boards? Are they oak?
I went TSC today and looked at their bush hogs and blade; didn't see a spear but I'm sure they could order one. The bush hog was 699 and the blade was a 72 inch I think and it was 279, both were King Cutter. Just pricing is all I was doing, mucho cheaper then the dealership, but isn't that how it usually goes!

Z I'm feeding grass hay with SafeChoice 1-2 pounds per horse. Like you said they are not pounding there hearts out. When I'm gone trail riding for a week I will give a bit extra to my mare. I also use the mineral blocks w/selium and thats why I was at TSC today.

c/ya

 

[canoetrpr]

You know I could just drop this idea of round bales and problem solved.
.

That would definately be my choice. A larger tractor costs more money, uses more fuel, fluid (at time of service) etc. A smaller tractor can fit into places a larger one cannot.

If round bales is truly your only use for a large tractor, I would just go with square and get something like a L3240.

 

[IslandTractor]

Hmmm don't think I can pay cash for 40 plus hp, need to stay in range;

You are correct if you want to stay with Kubota but you could get a Kioti DK40se HST for about the same as you quoted for the L3240 set up. Heavier tractor, 40+HP, more lift capacity with FEL too which might be nice for those big hay bales. Color is still orange too.

 

[Spiveyman]

I like that carry all alot. Are those 1x4 boards? Are they oak?
I went TSC today and looked at their bush hogs and blade; didn't see a spear but I'm sure they could order one. The bush hog was 699 and the blade was a 72 inch I think and it was 279, both were King Cutter. Just pricing is all I was doing, mucho cheaper then the dealership, but isn't that how it usually goes!

Thanks, I'm super **** about my stuff. I want it to look nice, be symmetrical and all that, my point is you don't have to do it up quite that way if you don't want, but here was my strategy. That frame came from TSC, King Kutter, but of course I had to paint it Ford blue to match my tractor, same with the bale spear and a boom pole I just bought. Anyway, I used 2X's for the floor and 1X's for the back to save on weight, but I wanted the stout bottom. The thing is, the holes in the frame were 6" apart. A 2X6 isn't really 6" wide - not sure how that came to be, but I actually bought 2X8's and ripped them to exactly 6" wide with a table saw. The last board was a 2X10 so that it would extend out past the edge of the frame. I used 2X4's along the edges to keep the boards from warping and to provide extra umph. That's a technical term. I used 1X6's on the back and just let them fall where they would until I ran out of holes. I put heavy duty eyelets on the sides in case I need to strap something down some time - and of course dipped them in the blue paint. I just used standard treated lumber rather than oak, partly for the cost of it. The oak would have been sweet though, but I'd have felt more conflicted about tossing random stuff up there that would scratch it up.

That's probably more detail than you cared for, but it makes a very nice carry all and will last for many years.

I've found TSC stuff to be very reasonable price wise and quality wise. I would suggest the heavy duty blades if you can afford them. They are a couple hundred dollars more, but in the long run they are well worth that delta.

Best wishes as you hone in on your tractor. I kind of miss the hunt and still check the web for tractors on sale.

 

[Appygirl]

Heck that was great info for hubby to build me one when it's time. Thank you.

My husband has a wood shop so he should have all the toys to build one.
I'm still waiting for my dining room table made out of cherry!! Hmm maybe for Christmas!!

Need to make some calls now to various dealers this morning. I'm on a mission!

 

[case685]

Hi Appygirl I've been feeding large bales to 6 horses for several years now and though the snow sometimes causes a problem I find wet conditions tougher to deal with ( I'm a few hours east of you in southwest Ont. ). If your going to be driving the tractor where the horses hang out it can get pretty messy, even in lighter soil conditions. A larger tractor with good ag tires is the best way to deal with that.
Also don't be afraid to go used when it comes to buying a tractor. Unless they have been badly abused ( you can pretty much tell by looking at them ) they are very reliable especially if you stick to the main brands. If you don't mind shifting gears as opposed to HST(automatic) you can also get more bang for your buck. Gerry

 

[Appygirl]

Thank you Gerry. Good thought on the mud/slush. I do plan on the ag tires.

 

[Spiveyman]

Heck that was great info for hubby to build me one when it's time. Thank you.

My husband has a wood shop so he should have all the toys to build one.
I'm still waiting for my dining room table made out of cherry!! Hmm maybe for Christmas!!

Ha! If he can build a cherry table then he can most certainly handle something as rudimentary as a carry all. I'm not exactly a skilled wood worker, but it is fun to build with wood. It is very forgiving. Here's a fun project I worked on over the winter. Now I can use a saddle as a piece of furniture and justify adding it to the decore of the house.






I also understand the concerns with buying a used tractor if you aren't very familiar with them. One rule of thumb that can help, find one with OEM paint that looks pretty decent. That will tell you that it hasn't been mistreated. Not many people will keep a tractor clean but destroy it mechanically. If you get one that's been repainted you never know what kind of condition it was in before the make-over and a new coat of paint will erase years of mistreatment. If you buy used from a dealer, spend some time talking to him, ask him lots of questions and see if he's happy to answer them. If you can find a salesman that will spend time to teach you something instead of just wanting to sell you something, odds are he/she will be trustworthy. And if you get one of those feelings about the salesperson, look elsewhere.

Hope the hunt is going well.

 

[3RRL]

If your land is kinda flat, there's always the old hay wagon routine. You can tow it out to pasture.

 

[Appygirl]

I think you underestimated your wood working skills, that is absolutely gorgeous!! I'll trade you saddles too I do have a nice saddle, I just whine about it being heavy. Did you use a router for the longhorn head? Hubby hasn't played with his router much. I think I need to get in there and practice if I can find a clear working space. LOL

I need a time out for a couple of days for the tractor hunt. I'm actually glad they have half days on Saturday and closed Sunday. I do have a tall order and needing a trailer puts it up to the Jolly Green Giant or is it Jack and the Bean Stalk with my budget. Hmmm wish list vs reality.... now there's a concept.
I do feel the trailer needs to be put on another page because it will most likely pay for itself in about 2 years. It will definetly save time and money getting hay loads, and trips to the dealer for servicing the tractor.

c/ya

 

[Spiveyman]

I think you underestimated your wood working skills, that is absolutely gorgeous!! I'll trade you saddles too I do have a nice saddle, I just whine about it being heavy. Did you use a router for the longhorn head? Hubby hasn't played with his router much. I think I need to get in there and practice if I can find a clear working space. LOL

Ha! I think you underestimate the effect of putting NINE coats of poly over the stain! I wet sanded with about a million grit sandpaper on the last few coats to get one heck of a smooth shiney finish. That distracts from some of the mistakes I made. I used a router to put a fancy edge on the front and rear panels of the stand, not sure that shows up in the pics. I tried on a scrap piece of board to use the router to create an indented longhorn head. I was going to stain it darker for contrast, but I just couldn't get it as perfect as I wanted, so I went the other rout. I drew one out on a scrap board, then used a scroll saw to cut it, then sanded it. In the end it was too "pretty" so I roughed it back up with some 60 grit paper.



I don't think you'd like that saddle either then. It's heavy. It's a Billy Cook Wade Rancher. The wade tree is a hoss, needed for the stress and strain of roping larger cattle. Same with the horn, extra beefy and wrapped in goatskin for friction when you dally off. Actually I've only used it a few times. Usually a bucket of grain is easier!

I agree on the trailer, you need that for sure (assuming you have a truck than can haul it). I can't haul mine with my 1/2 ton pickup, so now I just have to buy a super duty truck! Incindentally, if you have a 1 ton truck, be careful what trailer you buy or you might have to get a CDL to use it. There are several threads here that address that, here's one of them:

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/construction-equipment/105204-can-i-legally-tow-20-a.html

 

[Appygirl]

Ha! You're funny! I got thinking after I posted that you had used a scroll saw, and with nine coat it will be good enough for your grandkids!
Okay now I'm going to go peek at my owners manual for towing rate; I've kinda forgotten what the exact numbers were and see how much my trailer weights empty. I did upgrade to a different and bigger engine last year ; its a 3/4 ton diesel duramax/ allison transmission; love it!! Okay got to go look at numbers. Oh, and my saddle it a TEX- TAN, big and heffty , I"ll have to get pictures, but where's that camera at?

c/ya

 

[Spiveyman]

Ha! You're funny! I got thinking after I posted that you had used a scroll saw, and with nine coat it will be good enough for your grandkids!
Okay now I'm going to go peek at my owners manual for towing rate; I've kinda forgotten what the exact numbers were and see how much my trailer weights empty. I did upgrade to a different and bigger engine last year ; its a 3/4 ton diesel duramax/ allison transmission; love it!! Okay got to go look at numbers. Oh, and my saddle it a TEX- TAN, big and heffty , I"ll have to get pictures, but where's that camera at?

Grandkids! Ha! That thing's practically bullet proof!

I bet you are OK with a 3/4 ton. The problem is a 1 ton (10K capacity) + a heavy duty trailer (> 16K) seems to require a CDL even if the trailer's empty. Sounds like you are under that.

My partner has a Tex Tan roping saddle, great saddle, and yes a tad heavy too. We've got a 3 year old daughter and a 5 month old son, so there's always a camera handy.

 

[Z-Michigan]

I bet you are OK with a 3/4 ton. The problem is a 1 ton (10K capacity) + a heavy duty trailer (> 16K) seems to require a CDL even if the trailer's empty. Sounds like you are under that.

Not an expert here, but my understanding was you needed CDL if gross combination weight rating (GCWR) is 26,000lbs or greater. I don't know of any 1-ton pickups with a GCWR that high, so I don't think it's an issue for a setup with a 1-ton and any trailer. In some cases trucks capable of pulling more, like the International CXT, can be had with a 25,999 GCWR for the precise reason of avoiding the CDL requirement. But again, I'm not an expert (though I anticipate one will soon post to either confirm or refute my understanding).

 

[Spiveyman]

I'm not an expert either, Just saw that on another thread and wanted to make sure she was OK.

To be sure, I just checked Ford's website (since I'm a Ford guy) and they have several F250 and F350's that go over 10,000 lb GVW. There's even an F350 CrewCab at 13,000 lbs!!! (more power) Also looked up heavy duty Gooseneck tandem axle trailers, and there are several models in the 12,000 to 14,000 range. It's certainly possible to top 26K, though probably not that likely.

I think for Appygirl she'll be fine since she's using a 3/4 ton truck and probably isn't looking for suck a heavy duty trailer. When I made the comment I didn't know what truck she had. The trick now is to know what your combined GVW is and keep it under 26K unless you want to get a CDL.