Grapple project OPEN SOURCE

[polemidis]

Hello to the community. I just bought a tractor last week, and I am so excited! I quick realized the need for a grapple. I have 60ac of forest that need heavy thinning and I also need it for loading the firewood.
My apologies to my ignorance, my experience with tractors is only 1 week. Thats the first reason I am reaching to to you guys, because I need your input, feedback and critisism.
The 2nd and MOST important reason is that I am willing to offer my time in order to develop Open Source designs for the public benefit. I cannot afford to pay $1800 for a new grapple, and I bet there are so many with that "limitation" out there. I tried to buy some plans for my own use but noone was willing to sell me any plans or provide any help, so I spent a few hours today prototyping. Hopefully in a few weeks (months?) everybody can make his own grapple keeping the cost 3x below the commercial models. Later on we can start other tools also. Wouldn't be cool to have a repository of Open Source Implements??

Anyway, one step at a time, this is the result so far. Later on I will add a link of the CAD file for anyone that wishes to contribute, until then if anyone wants it plz PM me to sent it to you.

Wish me luck, and feel free to comment if you have anything useful to say. The idea is that anyone can take the plans for FREE and build its own tool. By letting the plans open source hopefully soon we can improve the design by a lot!

 

[ovrszd]

Welcome to TBN.

I think you should spend many, many hours perusing this website concerning Grapple construction. Then post a more substantial "blueprint" of your ideas and ask for suggestions. With what you posted I have no suggestions. Sorry.....

 

[prichard]

At least a few members have created build posts. A repository would be handy.

 

[/pine]

There may be a possible conflict of interest here...considering this site is primarily funded by vendors that sell grapples and other implements that can often be fabricated by DIY'ers...

In the same respect the welding vendors wouldn't mind though...

I'm all for open source and sharing source code...but there are guidelines

 

[comancheflight]

I think it's a good idea

 

[/pine]

At least a few members have created build posts. A repository would be handy.

It was 6-7 years ago that the TBN administration started to build a library of sorts of some of the more popular documented implement build threads...not sure whatever happened to it...

 

[ovrszd]

Something about this doesn't smell right.

 

[prichard]

Something about this doesn't smell right.

You mean like another "inventor" who wants others to do the work for him?

 

[polemidis]

You mean like another "inventor" who wants others to do the work for him?

I am not any "inventor" and I did not asked for anyone to do work for me.

Something about this doesn't smell right.

Plz be open and state clear your negativity Sir.

Welcome to TBN.

I think you should spend many, many hours perusing this website concerning Grapple construction. Then post a more substantial "blueprint" of your ideas and ask for suggestions. With what you posted I have no suggestions. Sorry.....

Thank you! I will not ask any specific questions until I finish my research. You are absolutely right.

At least a few members have created build posts. A repository would be handy.

I found only one from Anty1969 but he is not willing to help -respected-. I din't find anything else, I will do a more thourogh search. Thank you!
EDIT: I just found out the "search" button in the forums. Oh God, there are quite a few of builds! Thanx!!!!

My plan is not to compete with the commercial producers, but if you find that this post is causing problems with the vendors that fund this forums I can stop posting.

Anyway, so after some thought my revised plan is to create something simpler, avoiding the need for a CNC machine. I believe this will keep the cost at minimum. So instead of the nice curved tines, I would prefer to use flat bar. Yes the implement will not be as strong without increasing the weight. But, my compact tractor can lift 1800lbs at pivot point. Minus +-500lbs the grapple, there is a 1300lbs left of lifting capacity. Brush/twigs/or even a firewood load will not be that heavy. If I can save $200 on CNC labor, and cut the steel with a handheld plasma I opt for that. So I will post a new complete design in a few days.

Thank you all for your comments (yes, even the negative ones

 

[texasranger556]

Once you run the bill of materials to build a commercial quality product you'll find that doing it it strictly for cost savings doesn't make a lot of sense. Pins, cylinders, hoses, couplers, steel, welding wire, gas, plasma tips, etc all add up. OEMs get volume discount on materials that the general public can't replicate. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for building stuff but it usually works out cheap(er) because I use scrap materials, used or surplus cylinders, etc. Plus I can tailor the design exactly to my needs be it lighter, wider, stronger, etc than commercially available tools. With an "open source" design or a few similar designs you make compromises to satisfy differing requirements which drive the cost back up.

I wish you good luck with your venture.

 

[2458n]

Another source for info is always good. Thank you for your time.

 

[polemidis]

Once you run the bill of materials to build a commercial quality product you'll find that doing it it strictly for cost savings doesn't make a lot of sense. Pins, cylinders, hoses, couplers, steel, welding wire, gas, plasma tips, etc all add up. OEMs get volume discount on materials that the general public can't replicate. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for building stuff but it usually works out cheap(er) because I use scrap materials, used or surplus cylinders, etc. Plus I can tailor the design exactly to my needs be it lighter, wider, stronger, etc than commercially available tools. With an "open source" design or a few similar designs you make compromises to satisfy differing requirements which drive the cost back up.

I wish you good luck with your venture.

You may be right... But I LOVE to CAD!! I will make sure that I will have a good bill of materials before I will start the build. Also, the fact that there are not any good "open" designs out there make me willing to try even more. By good, I mean, a complete BOL, links and pics of each component.
Thank you for your comment.

 

[rswyan]

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/build-yourself/320507-root-rake-grapple-kubota-b2910.html

Unfortunately the CAD files were lost when a hard drive took a dive ...

 

[LD1]

If you are wanting to design and build a grapple because you cannot afford a new one.....you may get the designing done but you still arent gonna build one because you wont be able to afford it.

Same way with alot of other implements, and a pretty common one is a log splitter. You just cannot build one for less money than you can buy one for UNLESS you already have some of the material.

I can buy a good functioning grapple that will do everything you can ask a tractor with 1800# lift to do.....for $1100 all day long.

Building a one-off grapple is gonna cost you that much, in material.....then you are gonna be working on it for a good week cutting and welding and fitting parts.

I am all for building your own stuff. It gives you something to be proud of. But just want you to realize it isnt going to be a cost savings. So if that is your sole motivator....quit while you are ahead.

Now if you like projects, and enjoy being in the garage planning, laying out, cutting, welding, painting, etc. And dont mind doing all that work for no savings at all.....and strictly just to be able to say you built "that".....then go for it.

 

[mike69440]

I built have designed my own stuff, and other than the satisfaction and I'm not discounting that, it is a total time and $ waste. For $1,500 or less you can by a very nice new grapple (ebay, etc) and if you want the best there is Wicked.
I rather do seat time.

If you like the fun of it, design your product, and bounce it of Wicked, etc with a good legal NDA.

 

[GLyford]

I built my own front end loader for a garden tractor. Including design revisions, changes, broken parts while learning etc., even scrounging like mad to save costs, I spent more than what it would have cost me to buy ALL the garden-tractors-that-already-had-loaders on craigslist that showed up in the same time period. As someone who likes to play with cad and build things, I still had fun and consider it worthwhile, but saving money was not a goal I met. Oh, and the initial big project that drove me to start building it? Satisfied by renting a tractor-loader-backhoe for a day for under $200.

Going from your own design to the first really working product is called "prototyping", and most people who do it budget about 10x the cost of the final product.

There is a middle ground, which is project plans that have already been tested and built. There is a set of grapple plans on CADplans Corporation - Where you can find designs, tips and order information to build your own backhoes, diggers and MORE! and as a bonus, they are also members of the forum.

 

[GLyford]

The big problem with design is that it's so easy to design the whole thing. Which is the last thing you want to do to save money.

First, find a part that is close to being what you want. A bucket, a set of forks, a bale spear, a carry-all, something like that. And a pile of scrap and some tools (welder, torch or plasma, angle grinder(s), sawzall, drill press), and modify the thing until it resembles what you want. Tweak, use, break, fix, modify, use some more. That will get you something you can use relatively fast and cheap.

But it's not something that fits well in a computer model, because it takes too long to model all the bits and pieces of parts and scrap, when you can just work 1:1 real time.

Where the computer modeling does save you time is little spot models of "I need to attach this to that, if I put the pivots here and here, will I have good range of motion, will I make good use of the power of hydraulic cylinder, and can I avoid having to buy another stick of flat bar?"

I end up doing a lot of these little model sketches to "pre-test" design tweaks and changes.

But none of this really ends up being something anyone would be really willing to distribute (or download) as any sort of public use model.

To get the most use of this forum, just dig into your build. Show your sketches, discuss your changes, take pictures as you go. Someone looking to do something similar may take a lesson you learned here, and a nifty design idea there and incorporate it into their build...which will be different as fits their available materials.

I'll give you another example: my brother is clearing up his overgrown back yard, and figured out that while the set of forks he had could work if modified as a grapple, what he really needed was a root rake. 6 or 8 teeth hacked from plate with a torch and welded on at an angle to the bottom fork frame tube and he had a root rake for cheap money...but how many people are going to have that model fork frame on that tractor and need a root rake?

 

[polemidis]

If you are wanting to design and build a grapple because you cannot afford a new one.....you may get the designing done but you still arent gonna build one because you wont be able to afford it.

Same way with alot of other implements, and a pretty common one is a log splitter. You just cannot build one for less money than you can buy one for UNLESS you already have some of the material.

I can buy a good functioning grapple that will do everything you can ask a tractor with 1800# lift to do.....for $1100 all day long.

Building a one-off grapple is gonna cost you that much, in material.....then you are gonna be working on it for a good week cutting and welding and fitting parts.

I am all for building your own stuff. It gives you something to be proud of. But just want you to realize it isnt going to be a cost savings. So if that is your sole motivator....quit while you are ahead.

Now if you like projects, and enjoy being in the garage planning, laying out, cutting, welding, painting, etc. And dont mind doing all that work for no savings at all.....and strictly just to be able to say you built "that".....then go for it.

You may be right, but I would like to see the actual cost in the Bill of Materials. No offense, but your sense and experience (and a lot of people aggree with you as I see in the comments) is that I am not going to save -which is subjective-, my sence (and inexperience ) is that I am going to save a lot -which is still subjective. Only the BOL will be objective.
That being said, the cost is the most important factor. The 2nd motivation is that it will be available to anyone to replicate/imrove alter. Which will make sense only if it is cheaper than the commercial model of course!
Anyway, I am getting closer.




I had decided to go with a simple design with flat bars for the tines and gussets for reinvorcment at the corner. But after researching the forums I found a project where a guy cut out nice curved tines with a handheld plasma torch. So I reconsidered and stuck to the initial design. I understand that the freehand cut will not generate identical tines but I think it not so much of importance. Am I correct?

 

[GLyford]

Now on the other hand, would a few pics give you some ideas of things that you might do that are similar, without getting too specific?
View attachment 526196View attachment 526198View attachment 526197

 

[GLyford]

If you are cutting tines with a plasma, you can easily make them identical with a plywood pattern.