Gooseneck, 5th Wheel, or Bumper pull?

[JD3520]

I was wondering about the 10,000# pull also and found this:

The expanded size and power of the new Tundra will be reflected in its ability to tow over 10,000 pounds. To achieve this towing capacity every major component was designed for maximum strength, durability and reliability over the long haul. This will be accomplished with an all-new 5.7-liter i-Force V8 engine manufactured at Toyota's Alabama engine plant. The V8 will be mated to a new heavy-duty six-speed automatic transmission. In addition to the new powertrain, Tundra will also come equipped with heavy-duty front disc brakes with four-piston calipers and vented rotors increased by nearly one and one-half inches, and standard rear disc brakes. High capacity cooling and electrical systems will help Tundra tow heavy loads through the toughest weather. Finally, Tundra will ride on a new rock-solid chassis platform with 30 percent higher tensile strength steel.

found it here:
Chicago Auto Show: Toyota goes BIG with 2007 Tundra - Autoblog

 

[KAB]

You might want to wait until more spec's come out. What size bed? Will you be able to make turns safely with a GN? If they use a short bed (less than 6.5') it might not be rated for towing a GN trailer. (warranty issues?) Also, what will the payload be? A normal hitch mounted trailer has a recommended tongue weight 10-15% trailer weight (also properly equipped would include a weight distributing hitch) where a GN has a recommended pin weight of 15-25% trailer weight. These differences might mean that the truck (not combined weight but just the truck weight) is overloaded.

In all honesty, if you plan on towing in that range you would do best to get a "3/4 ton" truck. The truck manufactures are/have been playing the numbers game - My truck is bigger than your truck. Yes, they do beef up some components but still not to a 3/4 ton state.

Good Luck and Be Carefull Out There.


Kurt

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Having just bought a tractor, I'm now looking for a trailer to put it on. I was hoping the knowledgeable people here could help educate me on some of the differences.

I'm planning on buying one of the new Tundra pickups, which pull 10,600 pounds. Much as I'd love a dump trailer, it probably doesn't work for me now price/weight/size wise.

The question is, what are the advantages of the different hitch arrangements? Obviously, a bumper hitch leaves the truck bed empty, which is good. But is it noticeably harder to tow than a gooseneck? And how about 5th Wheel style hitches - are those even made for trailers?

Thanks for the advice,

charles

I've owned 2 Toyota Mini's and one Tundra. #1, #2, and #3 best trucks I've ever owned..... I always said if they came out with a 3/4 ton or 1 ton, I'd be first in line for one. Looks like I better get in line, huh?

For years, I stuck with a 10,000 lb bumper pull equipment trailer. It served the purpose. 4 years ago, I bought a new 20'+5' 14,000 GVWR gooseneck trailer. After 4 years, you couldn't GIVE me another bumper pull. (Well, maybe GIVE me one....) The first thing you'll notice is less thrashing the truck when loading and unloading. Next is the lack of "porpoising" with a gooseneck compared to a bumper hitch. That's when the front of the trailer and back of the truck bob up and down with undulations in the road. As far as loading height. Goosenecks generally have less abrupt angle to the dovetail and ramps. Sure, it's a few inches higher (on "deck-over" styles) but loading seems easier to me. Big plus for the deck-overs....No interference from fenders when side loading. (i.e. fork lift loading lumber)

The hitch.... Get a B&W "hide-a-ball" style hitch. A quick pull of a release lever in the fenderwell allows the ball to be removed and flipped over to make it flush with the bed. You don't have a ball in the way when you aren't trailering. Most WELL MADE (read well engineered) hitches place the ball a few inches forward of rear axle centerline.

 

[dmccarty]

I went to the link and they just repeated the 10K tow value. They mentioned that the truck would have three cab configurations. The tow values on the trucks I have looked at in the past depended on the cab. Regular cab weighs less thus the truck can haul/tow more.

The truck sounds like a 150/1500 class truck. It has a 6.5 foot bed. They don't mention engine HP/Torque or the weight of the truck. I don't know if the Big Three 150/1500 class trucks can tow 10K or not since I have looked since 2001. If they don't and this truck does pull 10K the Big Three have even more problems. The new Ford truck with the 6.4L engine can haul over 4,000 pounds. My 2002 Ford in the same configuration is 2200-2400 pounds. Can't remember the GCVR of the new truck.

I'm still skeptical until I see the other stats on the truck. I have a full size F350 73L TD SRW CC with an 8 foot bed that weighs in at 7700 pounds. Might be 7500 now that the tool box is out. That means the most I can tow is 12,500 pounds. With 2400 pounds on the truck. A 10K tow would put the Toyoto in a 350 class? Maybe a F250 class today.

Later,
Dan

 

[GreatWhitehunter]

I believe Toyota is jumping in with Nissan on this one. I think there Titan is rated to haul like 9400. However the truck is still a 1/2ton. I recently sold an 05 F-150 sc with the 5.4 it was rated at 9900. However that was a complete joke. Why anyone would attempt such a stupid feat and try to tow that kind of a load is beyond me. I know that toyota's are a rock solid vehicle and last forever but for my money if they want to step into the HD truck market they need to do more than just rebadge the tundra they need to build new from the ground up as a 3/4 or 1 ton towing machine. Just my two cents.

Matt

 

[Highbeam]

I own a 10k rated bumper pull trailer. 18' long with 2' dovetail. I really really like it though to be fair I have not towed a GN equipment trailer to compare.

I too have a hard time backing a small utility trailer, but, the much longer equipment trailer with its axles farther from the bumper is super easy to back up. The longer trailer reacts slower and jacknives are not a problem. I can put all kinds of big stuff in my empty truck bed while towing.

A half ton is going to be hard to set up properly for GN towing because the payload capacity of the half ton is so small. 20% is a typical amount of weight placed on the tow vehicle. That's 2000 lbs in the bed of that half ton truck and most are not capable of that. 10% tongue weight is needed for bumper pull and the 1000 lbs while high, is easier to handle.

I have zero sway issues as should anyone with a properly set up and loaded bumper pull trailer.

One more reason not to go GN, since there are many reasons in favor. When you make a corner with a GN, the trailer tracks inside the corner meaning you have to take every corner real wide to avoid putting the trailer in the inside ditch. I have a corner like this on my property with deep ditches on the shoulder so when people came to visit with their RVs I would watch to make sure they didn't fall into the ditches. The bumperpulls just went right on through but the much shorter 5th wheel guy had to go extra wide and do a "back up" in order to make the corner.

If you stick with a half ton truck then I would stick with bumper pull, If and when I go to a bigger truck then a similarly priced GN will be much more attractive.

 

[Dargo]

I believe Toyota is jumping in with Nissan on this one. I think there Titan is rated to haul like 9400. However the truck is still a 1/2ton. I recently sold an 05 F-150 sc with the 5.4 it was rated at 9900. However that was a complete joke. Why anyone would attempt such a stupid feat and try to tow that kind of a load is beyond me. I know that toyota's are a rock solid vehicle and last forever but for my money if they want to step into the HD truck market they need to do more than just rebadge the tundra they need to build new from the ground up as a 3/4 or 1 ton towing machine. Just my two cents.

Matt

Yup, I'd have to agree that if you want to pull 9900 with a 5.4 Triton, you'd better leave a week or two early because you sure aren't going to get there very fast! The Expedition I had with a 5.4 seemed weak with nothing behind it. If I drove on a 2 lane highway that had many hills, it constantly dropped two gears and the engine had to scream to keep even close to a constant speed. I don't know if the Toyota V8 is a lot more powerful, but it better be if it's going to pull over 10k. Also, to simply be blunt, it's just flat out not a good idea to pull 10k behind a 1/2 ton pickup. I don't care what the "ratings" are. I've driven overloaded 1/2 ton pickups and they just do not handle the load well.

Even though I strongly agree with "farmwithjunk" on the GN being vastly superior to a bumper pull trailer, I wouldn't consider putting a GN setup in a 1/2 ton pickup. I'd think that some of the trailer shops may even balk at installing such. If you're going to stay with a 1/2 ton pickup, I don't see any option other than stay with the bumper pull trailer and deal with it's drawbacks.

 

[Charlesaf3]

Highbeam that ditch comment rings true, and might be a deciding factor. I'll have to think on it.

Basically, at this point in my life, I won't buy it if it isn'tToyota. I've had consistently great experiences with them, including the 200k mile 1988 landcruiser parked outside that starts right up. I'd rather tow less if indeed the Tundra does tow less, but I tend to believe Toyotas claims - they've never led me wrong.

I think they are making a big push at the big 3 with this, and determined to get it right. Only way to get what Toyota calls "serious truckers" to look at a Toyota as more than a toy is too put something out there that outperforms everything in its class.

They have a long and short bed, and 3 cab models. Not sure what the high tow will work out to be. But I'm leaning towards 4 door short bed, so that might rule out GN there.

 

[Highbeam]

Who cares if the Toyota can pull 10k? Your tractor is not heavy at all and the appropriate sized trailer will keep the combination in the 6000 lb arena which is certainly toyotowable.

You may have noticed I own a 10k bumper pull and have a truck that is NOT rated highly enough to tow it at 10k. All my hitch gear and tires will allow 10k so that if I get a big manly truck I could use all the capacity of the trailer. My point is that I agree with your thoughts about buying too much trailer for the expected load.

 

[Charlesaf3]

The tractor's a bit heavier than you might think, with foamed tires (extra 1000 I gather) mmm, and backhoe, not to say what random implements I might want to tow. But yeah, a payload of 6k after deducting trailer weight would probably be more than enough. But I'm a lot happier being well within the margins of my equipment, rather than pushing it.

For those who say 10k is too much for a half ton truck, why is that? (Fundamentally, I think the issue is that I've enver really figured out what makes a truck half ton, 3/4 ton, or full).

I have found Toyota Tow ratings to be consistently conservative in regards to the Toyotas I've owned, for what its worth. But no substitute for seeing the actual truck, and reading reviews when its out.

 

[BTDT]

As for pulling 10000 pounds behind a 1/2 ton, shouldn't matter as long as brakes work. The trailers brakes should stop trailer for whatever its rated. How many of you pull 16 ft trailer with 4 wheeler around your place? If you had a brake controller on it so the trailer brakes would work shouldn't matter.

 

[Dargo]

There is a huge difference in the frame, the suspension, the brakes, the cooling, weight of the truck and several other items. As I said, I've pulled 10k with a 1/2 ton in the past and I'll definitely stick with what I said; it simply is not a good idea and I certainly would not do it again.

 

[radman1]

I will agree that in most cases, a GN trailer is better than a bumper pull. However, Charlesaf3 says he will be hauling the tractor rarely and will also use it for other smaller items. IMHO a GN is overkill in this situation. My vote would be for a bumper pull. GN's are more diffulcult to attach, cost more, and take up valuable truck bed space. Also can't use a truck topper or bed cover with GN. I have a 32' GN and 24' 14,000 bumper hitch trailer and will always choose the bumper pull unless load is very large or very heavy. My truck has more miles pulling a trailer than not. Longer bumper pull trailers always pull with less sway than shorter ones. I have never experienced sway with my 24' trailer and have had loads up to or over the limit.
Either will be easier to back up than smaller utility trailers he is currently use to using. Resale is also easier for bumper pull since it is more desirable for most people. A big advantage for the GN is that other people won't want to borrow it because it won't work on their truck!

 

[George2615]

Will a 1/2 ton pull a 10K loaded trailer? Sure, it probably will.

Will it be legal? Probably not. Not many if any 1/2 tons are rated to haul 10K. Most 1/2 tons have an 8500# or under rating.

Brakes on both trailer axles would be a plus.

A 1/2 ton will haul a 10K rated trailer that only has a 5K load all day long. If you want a 10K trailer get it. Then if someday you do need to haul its max capacity you could borrow a friends 3/4 or 1 ton or use your 1/2 ton and have a pocket full of cash for the fine when you get caught.

Better to get a trailer rated for more weight than less.

 

[Charlesaf3]

I figure if its rated to pull 10k, then its legal, and will pull 10k. Maybe that makes it bigger than a 1/2 ton?

But yeah, as long as the trailer weight isn't too high, I'd rather a heavier built trailer.

 

[Turbys_1700]

If the new Tundra is rated to tow 10K#, and I have no readon to doubt their ratings, it's gonna be with a regular cab, a full tank of gas, and 1 driver that weighs 150#. That's the way all manufacturers rate their trucks. So if you weigh 150# and don't put anything else in your truck then the Tundra will tow 10K#.

I would not tow this much daily with a 1/2 ton truck. An occasional foray into this much weight then you're ok. But it will not hold up to daily extended use at it's max capacity.

Toyota is trying to jump into the 1/2 ton market and take sales from Ford, Dodge, and Chevy. This is a good thing for the consumer. However, it does not look like they are developing 3/4 or 1 ton trucks to compete with the big 3.

I run an F-350 4x4 dually crew cab. I have a 5th wheel camper. Too much truck for a daliy driver but enough truck for the camper. I still use it as a daily driver,

 

[Charlesaf3]

If the new Tundra is rated to tow 10K#, and I have no readon to doubt their ratings, it's gonna be with a regular cab, a full tank of gas, and 1 driver that weighs 150#. That's the way all manufacturers rate their trucks. So if you weigh 150# and don't put anything else in your truck then the Tundra will tow 10K#.

I would not tow this much daily with a 1/2 ton truck. An occasional foray into this much weight then you're ok. But it will not hold up to daily extended use at it's max capacity.

Toyota is trying to jump into the 1/2 ton market and take sales from Ford, Dodge, and Chevy. This is a good thing for the consumer. However, it does not look like they are developing 3/4 or 1 ton trucks to compete with the big 3.

I run an F-350 4x4 dually crew cab. I have a 5th wheel camper. Too much truck for a daliy driver but enough truck for the camper. I still use it as a daily driver,

I'm hardly every going to have over 6k on it as a practical matter, and won't be towing long distances more than once a year. But I'd rather be over capacity. While I think that if they rate it for 10k, it'll pull 10k, I agree that pulling max is not a good idea to do very often on any vehicle. But I'm guess such a truck would pull 8k with ease, no?

And I'll be using this as a daily driver, so I'll probably get some form of double cab and short bed. But we'll see how all the numbers work.

 

[Jae]

I'm hardly every going to have over 6k on it as a practical matter, and won't be towing long distances more than once a year. But I'd rather be over capacity. While I think that if they rate it for 10k, it'll pull 10k, I agree that pulling max is not a good idea to do very often on any vehicle. But I'm guess such a truck would pull 8k with ease, no?

And I'll be using this as a daily driver, so I'll probably get some form of double cab and short bed. But we'll see how all the numbers work.

Just a little bit of perspective from my point of view. I have recently moved to North Texas. Now you have to understand that here in Texas there are more trailers than people it seems. And the hitch of choice is GooseNeck for a few very good reasons (some of which that have been mentioned) that I find important. GN trailers balance the load over the rear axle which allows for a more pleasant pull, much less bounce and no trailer sway to speak of.

They are in fact much easier to hook up than a regular hitch system as you can spot the ball/hitch in direct line of sight much easier (no more banged up bumpers). They are of course much bigger and more heavily built. This can be a plus as well if you need to switch the towing vehicle while the trailer is loaded (say when you blow a lower radiator hose on the hiway and have a full load of draft horses on board) it is easily and more safely acomplished versus a bumper pull.

I have pulled both types of trailer and both of my trucks have a GN hitch, I try not to use bumper pull whenever possible. I just feel much more comfortable with GN, but again, you need to factor in usage, and storing the trailer when not in use.

I find myself pulling trailers almost every other day for various tasks like moving the tractor or horses from point a to b. But that is to be expected when you own a working ranch. Before the ranch I only owned one trailer, a 14' car hauler which pretty much did everything I needed. As the need changed however, so did my equipment.

Just my perspective on the matter, from a guy who pulls a lot of trailers

The two trucks i normaly use for pulling?

A 3/4 Ton 1990 F250 7.3L Diesel, and the newer 99 F350 1 Ton also with a Powerstroke Turbo Diesel.

 

[Lynkage]

Hi I'm Shane and new to the forum!

Farbeit for me to be an expert but I live in Denver and go to the mountains very often towing a trailer of some kind behind my 1ton PS. I also see some of the Yoda's going as well.
What I can tell you I see them pulling 1or2 toys and no more. The motor seems to be rapping very high and they are shifting a lot.
I am not familiar with the terrain back east but where I am talking about the grades are steep. 5,6,7%.

With that said going up is easier than coming down.
I use both a GN & BP trailers and I prefer the GN.

If you do use the Yoda get some overloads and 8 or 10 ply tires as this will help a lot for towing.

My 2c is worth about minus $1

 

[Buckeye_Jim]

One more item no one has mentioned yet is that out here in California (and maybe other states also) you are required to stop at weight stations when using the GN hitch. A pickup and trailer with the same gross weight can bypass the weight station if attached to the bumper.

Jim