Goodbye Kubota, hello EarthForce

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/ Goodbye Kubota, hello EarthForce
  • Thread Starter
#381  
Re: EarthForce EF-5 usage report

Don't worry, Charlie - the tougher challenges are definitely coming. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

I'll keep you posted.
 
/ Goodbye Kubota, hello EarthForce #382  
Re: EarthForce EF-5 usage report

Dang Mark, I havent even had time to attach my free R&B tiltmeter. I now have almost 100 hours on my tractor. The amount of work I've been able to get done with it is fantastic. Does better then I thought. The loader is so strong that if I'm not careful, my toothbars gonna be bent to heck. The bars are very thick but believe it of not, they can bend from the bucket curl force being applied to them if I'm not careful and grab just one of them on a root or rcok. I did add TnT myself, its great. The hydrostatic on the L 48 is silky smoooooth. Thanks for recommeding hydrostaic in the first place. The control is FANTASTIC!!!. Folks who drive it figure there has to be more to do then just step on the pedal. As far as having the single rocker HST pedal vs two separate pedals like JD, the big single rocker on the L 48 is perfect for me and my size 13 boot. I do use the L48 much like the Bobcats in terms of forward to backwards movement. I think that the wear and tear on an HST must be less then a manual tractor simply because it is so smooth and no clutch to use/wear out or brakes for that matter. Thanks again for all your positive comments about HST, Rat....
 
/ Goodbye Kubota, hello EarthForce #383  
Re: EarthForce EF-5 usage report

re coupling the hydo hoses while under pressure -
all the quick connects I've seen have a spring loaded metal ball that takes the pressure to prevent leakage. Can't you just depress that to let a little fluid out instead of cracking a fitting or is the pressure too great? Seems like you could use a wooden dowel to depress it without damaging it. (Just thinking out loud here as I haven't actually done this!!)
 
/ Goodbye Kubota, hello EarthForce #384  
Re: EarthForce EF-5 usage report

Yes you can depress the spring loaded ball and in fact that is exactly what you are doing when you attempt to push the two fittings together. The problem is that ball, while surface wise is not tremendous, a few hundred or even thousand pounds of pressure against will make pushing by hand difficult at best. I have almost always been able to relieve pressure via a spool if that is what it is tied too, otherwise I will crack a fitting. The time it takes to do this though far exceeds the time to couple my PTO shaft to my tractor (sorry Mark, just had to get that dig in). I have never put a bolt in and taped it with a hammer. While it would most likely work, that ball is part of the seal and any scratches are potential leaks while disconnected. Rat...
 
/ Goodbye Kubota, hello EarthForce #385  
Re: EarthForce EF-5 usage report

Gerard, you've got the right idea, of course, but there's no way you're going to depress that little ball by hand if you couldn't do it hooking up the hoses. I just wrap a rag around the fitting, and use a drift pin, and one sharp rap with a hammer depresses the ball enough to release the pressure (and have never lost more than a few drops of hydraulic oil).
 
/ Goodbye Kubota, hello EarthForce #386  
Re: EarthForce EF-5 usage report

That sounds like a good idea, Thanks! I'll try it if I get in that situation again. I'll just have to remember to park the attachments in the shade next time /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif.
 
/ Goodbye Kubota, hello EarthForce
  • Thread Starter
#387  
Re: EarthForce EF-5 usage report

Rat - I'm glad you're so pleased with the L48 - it's a lot of tractor, that's for sure! As for the hydrostatic, I'm still convinced it's by far the best choice for 95% or more users, and your experience is one more in the affirmative. I still don't know anybody who's switched from HST to something else, though there are lots of examples of the process happening the other way around.

Another advantage of the hydrostatic, for me, is that I might very well have bought an EF-6 if it was HST, and that would've been way too much machine to haul around! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif As it is, with the EF-5, the 4-in-1 2/3 yd bucket, the 1.5 yd high-capacity bucket, and a backhoe bucket on my trailer, the whole rig runs 25,000 pounds, if the fuel tanks are full - and I don't care to gross any more than that.

I did a quick job Friday loading some stumps I'd dug out a while back (with the L4310HST/Bradco 609 combo). After I'd gotten them out, the L4310 wouldn't load them in the dump truck, so I just left them, knowing the EF-5 would handle it when I finally got it. One of them I was actually able to load with the backhoe and thumb, but the other one required the FEL. While I was at it, I moved 10 yd or so of topsoil with the high-capacity bucket from one pile to another existing one. The pile had been there a few years, so it was quite compacted, but the EF-5 pushed into it pretty easily, even though it uses the low-power, weak kind of transmission your L48 has - you know, the hydrostatic kind. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif The more I use the EF-5, the more impressed I am with how well balanced it is: It seems to have just the right amount of power to do whatever I need it to do. If I'm pushing into a pile of dirt, it's got just enough to slip the tires, but a little lifting action with the FEL curbs it immediately. If it had a lot more power to the wheels, I'd be looking for a way to put wider tires on it, but they aren't needed. The limited-slip diffs seem to do their job effectively, too. Sometimes I think it would be nice to have a little more power to the wheels, but then I remind myself how much more it's doing than the L4310 would do in the same situation handling much lower weights, and with only 13 more hp - that puts things back into perspective pretty quickly.
 
/ Goodbye Kubota, hello EarthForce
  • Thread Starter
#388  
Re: EarthForce EF-5 usage report

Bird - I used to release the pressure in a line the same way you described, but unfortunately the type of couplers used on the EF-5 and most skid steers these days are what they call "flat face" couplers. They have almost zero leakage and are easier to keep clean, but they have the disadvantage of being pretty much completely sealed. I haven't quite figured out the advantage of low leakage couplers when you have crack a fitting to get them connected... /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

I'm trying to figure out a way to make a handle of some sort that you can grip with both hands to put more pressure on the fitting to make it easier to connect them. I sure wish somebody made something already - I'll bet they do, but finding them is the trick.
 
/ Goodbye Kubota, hello EarthForce #389  
Re: EarthForce EF-5 usage report

Mark, one more thing about HST that works well for me (kids, don't do this at home) is hooking up any 3 pt. implement. I do not have a freedom hitch, its still done the old fashion way. I used to think telescoping links would be great, well, I have them with HST. With a simple press of the hand on the pedal, I can creep it as much as I need forward or reverse. Whats more is when it stops, it stays put and won't roll. You are correct about the power transfer. I figure my tractor with 1100lb box and tires filled comes in somewhere around 6500lbs. Going into a pile of dirt will slip my tires but lift on the loader puts a stop to that pretty fast. One thing about the L48 that I have yet to witness on any other tractor regardless of make is how well the power steering works. Whether the bucket is heaped with toothbar on adding a few more cubic feet approx. 22 cu. ft. in total capacity it makes no difference period no matter the surface to the use of the power steering. It is quick and very strong. It makes manuvering the tractor all that much faster. There are times I could use hoe. Perhaps down the road. Pictures of the EF5 look great, I'll have to send some of mine your way. The weather here has been very obliging to tractor work so I'm taking advantage of it while I can. All of the fruit trees are either blooming or have bloomed which means great grass seeding time around here. Best of luck, Rat...
 
/ Goodbye Kubota, hello EarthForce #390  
Re: EarthForce EF-5 usage report

<font color=blue>"flat face" couplers</font color=blue>

I don't guess I'm familiar with those, Mark.
 
/ Goodbye Kubota, hello EarthForce #391  
Re: EarthForce EF-5 usage report

<font color=blue>kids, don't do this at home</font color=blue>

Hmm, so you obviously know that's a forbidden practice because of safety./w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif Sure is handy though, ain't it?/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif I try to be careful and keep my toes out from under the wheels when I do it; been successful so far./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif
 
/ Goodbye Kubota, hello EarthForce #392  
Re: EarthForce EF-5/Power Trac Valve Choice

<font color=red>As to your system, it should be a very simple matter to put a solenoid like the one that diverts pressure to my QA system on your PowerTrac. Then you could use one lever to control two functions.</font color=red>
Mark: I'm starting to lean toward a diverter rather than a completely separate solenoid controlled valve. My PT supply to the bucket hoist & curl as well as the aux pto is rated at 4 gom at 3000psi. To divert the curl circuit to open & close the 4 in 1, I assume I'd need a diverter that switches both pressure and return lines to the bucket cylinders when I press the joystick button. I assume that is what you installed on your Kubota. So my question: Do you have a recommendation of a manufacturer and source for a self contained solenoid valve system which doesn't require subplate or manifold. The Bailey catalog lists a Gresen "Solenoid Operated Circuit Selector Valve" which looks as if it may work, but I'm uncertain about nomenclature.
I searched old posts and didn't see exactly what you used on the Kubota, but maybe I didn't use just the right search term.
 
/ Goodbye Kubota, hello EarthForce
  • Thread Starter
#393  
Re: EarthForce EF-5/Power Trac Valve Choice

Charlie - Apparently I never posted the exact model of control valve I ended up using on my L4310. That would explain why you couldn't find it... I know it was "Compact Controls" brand. Unfortunately, I don't know exactly which model it was, and all the records are now in the possession of the guy who bought my stuff.

But yes, you're correct: What you're looking for is a valve block with two solenoids, two input ports, and four output ports. When the solenoids aren't energized, one set of output ports is open, and this set goes to your dump/rollback circuit. When they are energized, the other set of output ports is open, and this set is connected to the 4-in-1 circuit. It's also important to hook it up so that when you "roll back the bucket" and energize the solenoids, pressure is applied to the side of the 4-in-1 cylinders that closes the bucket. It's a little complicated to explain why, but when you're operating the bucket, you can get a feel for the idea that rolling back and closing are used together quite a bit, and you can accomplish both sequentially by just pressing and releasing the thumb button while you're holding the joystick to the left. If it's plumbed backwards, it's a real bear to operate smoothly. No, I take that back - it's impossible to operate smoothly. I'm probably telling you stuff you already know here, though, but just trying to make sure you don't find out the hard way, after you've invested time and money in it. Sometimes you can just swap hoses, sometimes you can't...

As for the diverter valve itself, I don't think you really need one as large as the one I used, though, if you're dealing with 4 gpm max. The one Long sells will handle that fine, and is probably cheaper than the one I bought anyway. But before you go out and buy one, let me look around and see if I've still got the original Long one that I got for my 4-in-1. If I do, you can have it. I can't remember if I already gave it away, cannibalized it for another project, or if it's still tucked away in a box somewhere. A little scavenging is in order to see if I can determine its fate...

It may be a couple weeks, though, if you don't mind waiting. I'm leaving early Tuesday with "The Force" to go work on a project, and won't be back until Sunday night. Monday is already booked with more "getting ready" stuff than I'm going to be able to do, I'm afraid.
 
/ Goodbye Kubota, hello EarthForce #394  
Re: EarthForce EF-5/Power Trac Valve Choice

Mark:
I really appreciate your offer. If you can come up with the valve and don't have any use for it, I would really like to try it. I am about to the point that having a valve in my hand is essential. I've looked at a lot of bad quality pictures and drawings, and still have some questions.
Thanks a lot for the advice about matching the roll back to the close bucket functions. I am a complete neophyte with a 4 n 1, so basic advice is really important.
There is certainly no time pressure at my end. I envy you a week long project with the "Force." I will be in my office most of that time. For any time I have off in the next couple of weeks I can certainly find projects that don't require the solenoid valve -- and then grass cutting season will be coming on.
Have a great week.
 
/ Goodbye Kubota, hello EarthForce
  • Thread Starter
#395  
Re: EarthForce EF-5/Power Trac Valve Choice

Charlie - You're quite welcome! I hope I still have it. I'm fairly sure I do, but it's just a question of finding it. As I suspected, I didn't have time to look for it today.

The kind I installed on my L4310 was just like the one I got from Long, but had a much higher flow rating. It's basically just an aluminum block with the ports and solenoids I described before. I'll probably be able to find it next Monday - I'll get back Sunday evening.

I used "The Force" to unload five rocks weighing a total of 5.6 tons today. They seemed roughly equal in size, but two of them were too heavy for the EF-5 to pick up with the backhoe and thumb, so the 4-in-1 came in handy for them.
 
/ Goodbye Kubota, hello EarthForce #396  
Re: EarthForce EF-5/Power Trac Valve Choice

Mark:
I suspect my rock moving would be limited to a few hundred pounds, but fortunately we don't have many that big around our place. I haven't even put the thumb on the hoe yet.
It sure is fun now and then to have more capability than you need, isn't it?
I hope you can find the valve. At our place, we have three or four people all carefully stowing things in special places for later use. We only find them when searching for something else.
 
/ Goodbye Kubota, hello EarthForce
  • Thread Starter
#397  
Re: EarthForce EF-5/Power Trac Valve Choice

These rocks were landscaping rocks that I bought from a quarry out in the western part of the state - they're going to be used in a future project.

The thumb I got from D&E for the EF-5 is a little heavier than I'd have made myself, but it sure works nice. It weighs 175 pounds, and I'd prefer it weigh closer to 100, but at least I don't have to worry about breaking it. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
 
/ Goodbye Kubota, hello EarthForce
  • Thread Starter
#398  
Re: EarthForce EF-5 usage report

MossRoad - When you get a chance sometime, could you tell me the type and size of quick-connect fittings on your PowerTrac? I have a reason... /w3tcompact/icons/eyes.gif
 
/ Goodbye Kubota, hello EarthForce
  • Thread Starter
#399  
Re: EarthForce EF-5 usage report

I just got back from a 5-day project with the EF-500. I found that my productivity with the machine was much lower than I'd hoped. I couldn't get much done because of all the questions people were asking! /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

No one there had ever seen one before, of course. Two contractors working on the project, one of whom owns a hardscaping business, the other being a general contractor, decided on the spot to buy an EarthForce machine. The hardscaper said he expects he'll end up replacing all 4 of his skid steers with them, if they work as well for him as mine did for me on the project.

I ended up doing pretty much everything the machine is capable of on this project. The first day on the job, an 18-wheeler got stuck trying to back a loaded trailer onto the site, so I hooked a chain to the rear of the trailer to pull him backwards up the hill, while he pushed. I frankly didn't think I'd be able to do much for him, but to my amazement (and even more so everyone else's), it pulled him about 2/3 of the way up the hill before the EF-500 got stuck, too. I noticed that I was digging deep trenches with the rear tires, but the front tires were hardly digging at all. So, we unhooked and I went over to a pile of wet red clay and picked up almost a yard of the stuff, moved back over to the trailer and hooked up again. At this point, one of the guys on the job, who's got a lot of experinece with heavy equipment, said "This never would've happened if the truck driver had been helping." I said "You mean he wasn't pushing?" and he said "Nope." So, he went over and told the driver he was going to have to help, and that, combined with the extra weight in the front bucket, got it the rest of the way up the hill. I've previously said the area I expected the EF-500 to be least satisfactory in was pulling power. I sort of expected that it might not even measure up to the capabilies of my previous L4310HST in this regard, because of a combination of much larger tires in the rear, and the gear reduction in the differential. I no longer have any such misgivings. The EF-500 will pull just fine, thank you. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif Half a dozen guys on site said they were amused when I hooked up to that trailer - they never expected it would pull it.

I dug up some pampas grass clumps with the backhoe that were individually all a 150-class pickup could handle. I pulled some very large (8-foot diameter) boxwoods up with the FEL and 4-in-1 bucket. It was one of those that made a believer of the hardscaper. He told me later that when I grabbed hold of one of those larger boxwoods, he expected to see the rear of the EF-500 to come off the ground, or the bucket just sit there, but the last thing he thought would happen would be for the boxwood to come out of the ground. But come out it did - at just off idle engine speed, too. It was a little after that that he came over and said "What in the world is that thing, anyway?"

I stripped the topsoil and ground cover off of a thousand or so square feet of area and moved dozens of yards of topsoil and mulch, using both the 2/3 yard 4-in-1 and the 1 3/4 yard high-capacity bucket.

I used the Switch Hitch to move a bunch of trailers around on site.

I placed half a dozen landscape rocks ranging up to a ton in weight. One of them, a 400-500 pound one, I placed using the backhoe and thumb at full extension, because the place we wanted to put it wasn't accessible using the FEL.

I used the FEL-mounted forks to set 3 HVAC units.

I used the auger to drill half a dozen tree holes in hard red clay, and a bunch more shrub holes. One of the main reasons I started looking for a replacement for the L4310 was the difficulty in taking the 3-point auger on and off. In just one day, I counted 7 changes between the auger head and the backhoe bucket. Using the backhoe quick-attach, it's a 2-minute process requiring almost no physical effort.

The same day, I counted more than a dozen changes between FEL implements: 4-in-1 bucket, high-capacity bucket, Switch Hitch and forks.

Maneuverability was much better than with the L4310. I was easily able to get around in places the L4310 wouldn't have been able to.

At the end of the project, I wasn't nearly as tired and beat up physically as I usually am. I think it's because of a combination of not having to struggle with the auger changes, and not having to look over my shoulder all day. It was amazing how much less fatiguing it was to always be working in front of you instead of behind you.

I was also amazed at how quickly the operation of the 4-in-1 bucket is becoming instinctive, using the two inter-connected FEL levers - I think I'm really going to like that control set-up.

All in all, a very successful full trial of the new machine. It did everything I asked it to do every single time and never really even balked, except for having to get a load of dirt in the FEL bucket to get maximum traction with the front tires - but I should've done that to start with.

The custom flashing LED warning lights just about stopped traffic in its tracks. They were incredibly effective - more so than I'd even hoped. I spent a lot of time on an adjacent road with a 45-mph speed limit and a blind curve about 50 yards from where I was entering and exiting the highway - an excellent test.

I only had one problem the whole time. At one point, I couldn't get the engine to return to idle. I thought it was probably a linkage problem, but after looking around a bit, I discovered that a piece of gravel had gotten wedged in front of the accelerator pedal and was preventing it from coming all the way back up. Extracting it with a pair of pliers solved the problem.

An annoyance I noted was that, at certain engine speeds, a resonance develops in the floor plates and creates an uncomfortably high noise level. I'm going to look into some noise control materials to try to control that a bit.

Fuel consumption for the entire job was .97 gph. That's a little higher than I expected. It turns out I have a fuel leak in the hose running from the fuel tank to the injector pump. It doesn't appear to be a very big leak, though, so I'm not really sure how much it will affect actual fuel usage. I'll find out on the next big project, coming up the third week in April.
 
/ Goodbye Kubota, hello EarthForce #400  
Re: EarthForce EF-5 usage report

What an awesome machine! I hope you're getting a commission on these new sales! Just 2 questions; (1) Any pictures of the EFs first battle?; (2) I don't recall seeing prices for the EF, how does it compare to a TLB or skidsteer these contractors already have or ones they might consider?
 
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