Global Warming?

[IslandTractor]

I think there's a pretty easy to see connection between far left and GW. The left is great at brow beating people into accepting their adjusted studies and omitting facts that don't fit their agenda.
You can claim all the science you want. Ive read the studies and connected the dots. Sorry I won't accept an article as "truth".
Gotta love Al Gore. Hes so creditable that he can only get air time on the "channel" he owns.
Anyone else read the study about who green programs effect? I'll give you a clue. Not the elitist types passing the rules.

When you claim to have "read the studies" what are you referring to? Nobody has read all the tens of thousands of relevant studies, not even the much quoted or referenced climate scientists. Are you therefore referring to some journalistic piece and if so was it one that presents a balanced view or just a diatribe? How do you personally decide what is credible and what is "leftist"? Recognizing that neither Gore nor any of the counterpart right wing propagandists is a scientist, do you form your opinions based on science or politics?

 

[Rainbody]

When you claim to have "read the studies" what are you referring to? Nobody has read all the tens of thousands of relevant studies, not even the much quoted or referenced climate scientists. Are you therefore referring to some journalistic piece and if so was it one that presents a balanced view or just a diatribe? How do you personally decide what is credible and what is "leftist"? Recognizing that neither Gore nor any of the counterpart right wing propagandists is a scientist, do you form your opinions based on science or politics?

I know it's hard to believe. Someone actually reading the studies connected to the articles posted on here. Imagine that, a libertarian that does his homework.
As to what's creditable and not, its fairly easy if your willing to spend the time. But I'm not going to do your homework for you. You'll never learn to really make up your own mind if I feed you information. I'll ask you to research say Hansens latest "study" on surface temps. Look over the data. Does any of it look odd? Too good to be true?

And science vs politics, Are you saying there's no connections? False science creating bad law? Never happens. Just a crazy myth.
Pretty sure there where plenty of ******** studies in 20s 30s 40s in reference to someones race being inferior. Both here (black pilots) and europe (jews had special powers). The study sets the stage for someone to create that political agendas.
A great example of the politics of the time (racial division) getting backup by federal studies to keep/impose bad law. And people went along with it because it's "science" it's not political.
I won't get into what happen in Europe due to some believing science cant be political.

Glad we agree on Gore.

 

[tcreeley]

Study Finds Electric Vehicles May Not Provide the Environmental Benefits Which They Claim | TheBlaze.com

I estimate that electric cars get about 2mpg based on how long my gas generator has to run to and how many gallons of gas it would take to power up an electric to go 40 miles.

HS

I like this- never thought electric cars that plug in were the way to go.

 

[tcreeley]

Another atypical day of warmth here in central Maine. Right now and sun is trying to break out. Our impatiens flowers are blooming as the leaves are turning. We have not had a killing frost. 30 years ago it occurred in the last week in August. I don't turn to science to tell me it is getting warmer. I observe it all around me. The anti warming people for the longest time said it wasn't getting warmer (some still say that). I look to science to tell me why. The anti-warming people say it is natural. I think they are fools in their statements -so I don't give them credit on this issue.

There are many things we don't know, cannot know given our technology. Think of the use of variables in simple algebra. They stand for "unknowns". Through manipulation they allow us to produce a "known". It goes on from there. That is what science is all about- the perceived known and unknown. Thought is used to arrive at useful information.
There are some dead end lines- generally the result of "faith" in the tried and true, irregardless of new evidence to the contrary, and those resulting from ignorance and its cousin- superstition/magical thinking. (The Rapture recently came and went; Aztec 2013 is promising something good!)

Telling me that Noah was real, God was the cause, and I should just accept and trust to faith- is childish-- age 3,4?. I can't take that seriously.

There are many things we don't know- so what. We live in a real world and use science to arrive at more information. When we discover errors we fix them. Trusted and true is only so good as long as it works. ....I don't see many armies depending upon the horse cavalry today, maybe adopting the tactic- but it is not the same.

The nay-sayers would have us ignore the changes in the world temperatures and the subsequent effects (including disasters). There is no "nice way" to respond to this other than saying- "that's dumb". We are back to congress and our two party system of "just say no" (to quote Nancy).

I find the lack of accomplishment depressing. Not good.

 

[EE_Bota]

Another atypical day of warmth here in central Maine. Right now and sun is trying to break out. Our impatiens flowers are blooming as the leaves are turning. We have not had a killing frost. 30 years ago it occurred in the last week in August. .

When I saw you posted from the "new posts" page, I thought "I wonder what the today's weather deviation is for Maine."

To return the favor, the weather here in NC is fantastic. It is clear, brisk, and a perfect day for enjoying the outdoors. I have not been able to get out as much as I like, so I am packing up my kit, and heading outside for a day of shooting and tractor maintenance/work/play. Yippe!

 

[madmax12]

Another atypical day of warmth here in central Maine. Right now and sun is trying to break out. Our impatiens flowers are blooming as the leaves are turning. We have not had a killing frost. 30 years ago it occurred in the last week in August. I don't turn to science to tell me it is getting warmer. I observe it all around me. The anti warming people for the longest time said it wasn't getting warmer (some still say that). I look to science to tell me why. The anti-warming people say it is natural. I think they are fools in their statements -so I don't give them credit on this issue.

There are many things we don't know, cannot know given our technology. Think of the use of variables in simple algebra. They stand for "unknowns". Through manipulation they allow us to produce a "known". It goes on from there. That is what science is all about- the perceived known and unknown. Thought is used to arrive at useful information.
There are some dead end lines- generally the result of "faith" in the tried and true, irregardless of new evidence to the contrary, and those resulting from ignorance and its cousin- superstition/magical thinking. (The Rapture recently came and went; Aztec 2013 is promising something good!)

Telling me that Noah was real, God was the cause, and I should just accept and trust to faith- is childish-- age 3,4?. I can't take that seriously.

There are many things we don't know- so what. We live in a real world and use science to arrive at more information. When we discover errors we fix them. Trusted and true is only so good as long as it works. ....I don't see many armies depending upon the horse cavalry today, maybe adopting the tactic- but it is not the same.

The nay-sayers would have us ignore the changes in the world temperatures and the subsequent effects (including disasters). There is no "nice way" to respond to this other than saying- "that's dumb". We are back to congress and our two party system of "just say no" (to quote Nancy).

I find the lack of accomplishment depressing. Not good.

When the definition of accomplishment is "It's my way or nothing..." THAT'S depressing.

Such an attitude looks not for discussion, but rather submission and compliance.

As more pay attention, perhaps it will become more clear... perhaps their goal is just that. Submission and compliance.

 

[IslandTractor]

When the definition of accomplishment is "It's my way or nothing..." THAT'S depressing.

Such an attitude looks not for discussion, but rather submission and compliance.

As more pay attention, perhaps it will become more clear... perhaps their goal is just that. Submission and compliance.

Madmax you are very polite person and do listen to other's points of view. However I wonder if you see the hypocrisy in claiming others want you to "submit and comply" when that is precisely what religious faith requires of believers. You (fundamentalist Christian or Muslim or Jew) require an unquestioning acceptance of religious dogma as the starting point for any discussion. If I don't accept the Bible as literally true then you and I have no way to discuss whether Genesis is a Platonic myth, necessary for a religious starting point in ancient times, or a true story that can be verified and corroborated with the tools of modern science. Those who question the basic beliefs of religion in matters describing the physical world and history of earth are not the ones who have closed minds.

 

[tcreeley]

When I saw you posted from the "new posts" page, I thought "I wonder what the today's weather deviation is for Maine."

To return the favor, the weather here in NC is fantastic. It is clear, brisk, and a perfect day for enjoying the outdoors. I have not been able to get out as much as I like, so I am packing up my kit, and heading outside for a day of shooting and tractor maintenance/work/play. Yippe!

What is the temp in NC? typical, atypical - I am curious.
When we first moved here- before I had the chimney up- October was a cold month. It was in the 30's and colder most nights in the house. We used to really bundle the kids up putting them to bed. Sometimes we'd find ice where it had spilled on the kitchen floor from the night before.
The window is wide open every night beside the bed. I hear the loons calling still from the lake a mile away. Frogs are out and about still, some bug I can't place is chirping through the night. I enjoy it- but the loss of summer days due to uncomfortable heat days makes it an easy thing to give up -if we could go back to what it was. I can dress for the cold, it is hard to dress for the heat.

 

[/pine]

...with the tools of modern science...

Don't you know that "science" is the belief in the ignorance of experts ?

 

[IslandTractor]

Don't you know that "science" is the belief in the ignorance of experts ?

You still confused or just trolling?

 

[k0ua]

Creely.. it is cold today in southern Missouri.. not a typical Oct. day.. it should be 10 to 20 degrees warmer than today, and we expect a hard freeze tonight. Your warm day just like my cold day does not prove a thing. Do I think overall warming is occurring, despite my extra cold day here? It would seem so, or so they tell us. Is it man made? I don't know for sure, but I doubt it. as the earth has went thru many many warm periods, followed by cold periods before man had a chance to cause anything. Do I know for a FACT that climate data has been manipulated by climatologist with political agenda's? YES. Do I know for a fact that Albert Gore Jr. is a FRAUD, and a LIAR, and an hypocritical AXXHOLE. YES I DO. That is all we are saying, just admit that all the facts are not in yet.. and that we should NOT change our way of life drastically because some political "scientist" says that we are all going to roast our butts off this century or the sea levels are going to drown the city's or some such bullpucky. It aint gonna happen. And I am willing to bet the farm on it..I say it is made up "stuff". The climatologist stepped in it when they manipulated data to fit their hypothesis and I will never believe another thing they say.

 

[madmax12]

Madmax you are very polite person and do listen to other's points of view. However I wonder if you see the hypocrisy in claiming others want you to "submit and comply" when that is precisely what religious faith requires of believers. You (fundamentalist Christian or Muslim or Jew) require an unquestioning acceptance of religious dogma as the starting point for any discussion. If I don't accept the Bible as literally true then you and I have no way to discuss whether Genesis is a Platonic myth, necessary for a religious starting point in ancient times, or a true story that can be verified and corroborated with the tools of modern science. Those who question the basic beliefs of religion in matters describing the physical world and history of earth are not the ones who have closed minds.

This is the conundrum.

I do not require the unquestioning acceptance... rather, I encounter the unquestioning disregard... of the Creator.

On the contrary to your post, I feel the same as you. I encounter the opinion, that I am an utter fool for being a believer. Post #2164 is a clear example of that. The opinion expressed there, is the sentiment you use to characterize a dogmatic, rigid, religious view.

This is the conundrum.

How can there be any genuine discussion?

And if people of the opinion matching post #2164 are in political power... they may feel it is their right to stomp all over the stupid, to force them to comply, for the emergency crisis to be solved.

That is where the science, turned politics, is a repeat of history... and dangerous.

Respect, would hinder the danger.

If, like in post #2164, you reduce your opposition to useless fools... in your mind and rhetoric... you become dangerous. And, it is that side... that ends the discussion at the requirement of unquestioned acceptance. Submission and compliance... or you will be ridiculed, dehumanized, and removed as the obstacle to progress...

History. Respect.

The progressive movement is an old one. It was growing in the 1800's. It is not new. It presents many challenges to those who will not submit and comply. If enough of that view gain true power... politeness will disappear... as will those who dissent.

 

[Redneck in training]

Madmax you are very polite person and do listen to other's points of view. However I wonder if you see the hypocrisy in claiming others want you to "submit and comply" when that is precisely what religious faith requires of believers. You (fundamentalist Christian or Muslim or Jew) require an unquestioning acceptance of religious dogma as the starting point for any discussion. If I don't accept the Bible as literally true then you and I have no way to discuss whether Genesis is a Platonic myth, necessary for a religious starting point in ancient times, or a true story that can be verified and corroborated with the tools of modern science. Those who question the basic beliefs of religion in matters describing the physical world and history of earth are not the ones who have closed minds.

Religion has terrible record in seeking truth. Not only the church was not seeking truth it used to burn people for saying the obvious truth such as the Earth is round and rotates. If church has the power it had in "dark ages" (it was called dark ages exactly for that for that reason) we would still be made believe that earth is flat and is a center of universe.

 

[Cat_Driver]

Well it's FALL so I hope all the gullible warming nuts have their jackets on.

OH WAIT I forgot. They Gullible warming nuts have it all covered.

Definition of gullible warming. It rains, ( GULLIBLE WARMING ) it doesn't rain ( GULLIBLE WARMING ) it's hot ( GULLIBLE WARMING ) it's NOT hot ( GULLIBLE WARMING ) Tornados ( GULLIBLE WARMING ) , hurricanes ( GULLIBLE WARMING ) mud slides ( GULLIBLE WARMING ) drought ( GULLIBLE WARMING ) rainy season ( GULLIBLE WARMING ) , snow ( GULLIBLE WARMING ) no snow ( GULLIBLE WARMING ) freezing ( GULLIBLE WARMING ) NOT freezing ( GULLIBLE WARMING )

I winder if these people realize how stupid they sound blaming every type of weather on ( GULLIBLE WARMING ) .

Sheeesh I guess there is a sucker born every day

Do your research and realize th UN started ( GULLIBLE WARMING ) to pick your pocket NOTHING MORE THAN THAT

Better yet if you actually BELIEVE in Gullible warming I'll help you out and make it even easier for you

Russian computer hackers have published emails and source code from the UN-affiliated Climate Research Unit showing profound corruption, fraud, and criminal activity. What's really behind the Copenhagen treaty?

Global warming exposed as UN-funded fraud | ZeroHedge

A picture emerges of big science funded to the tune of billions of dollars for the purposes of an underlying international political agenda.

WAKE UP PEOPLE you are being scammed.

 

[/pine]

You still confused or just trolling?

I'm not confused about anything (currently)...it's you that exhibits all the indications of confusion and naivety...

once again for the dense...Feynman used the quote many times in many different discussions...it is how he defined science as a whole...not in just the context that has you so confused...

 

[/pine]

GULLIBLE WARMING

now that's funny (and how true):thumbsup:

 

[cqaigy2]

The fall weather here has been beautiful. high 30-40 at night, mid 60-70 during the day. Reminds me of the weather we had on the east side of the state when i was a youngster. In the past, when we have had such little rain throughout the summer/fall, we would have trees dying, but i believe because of the long wet spring, out ground water is higher so the trees are doing alright.

 

[Cat_Driver]

SO I did a little surfing and I have the e-mails of "destroyed ' RAW data" Which means with RAW daya missing they can say what ever they want.

>>> Gentlemen--
>>>
>>> I expect that you have already been made aware of the petition to EPA
>>> from the Competitive Enterprise Institute (and Pat Michaels) calling for
>>> a re-opening of public comment on EPA's prospective "endangerment"
>>> finding on greenhouse gases. CEI is charging that the CRU at East Anglia
>>> has destroyed the raw data for a portion of the global temperature
>>> record, thus destroying the integrity of the IPCC assessments and any
>>> other work that treats the UK Jones-Wigley global temperature data
>>> record as scientifically legitimate. I have attached the petition in
>>> PDF, with a statements by CEI and Michaels.

I also looked at a few HUNDRED Emails from the UK study which a lot of gullible warming is based. This gullible warming is the biggest fraud ever purported on the human race. It had two goasl. 1) to keep grant money flowing to scientists, and 2) to make you and me pay for NOTHING.

 

[Cat_Driver]

More e-mails showing FUZZY math...WHO USES "infilling" in science. Infilling is also know as FUDGING The numbers

Tom,
I can't see why the data become ERSSTv3b. b seems all that you can download.
I reviewed the 2008 paper. The version that I reviewed had something in for the problem of
SST data now re drifters and ships, but they pulled that section. I recall saying it needed
to be watertight and they needed to explain the spatial pattern to the ship minus drifter
field. Maybe that version was a?
I was never that keen on their infilling. It biases the values before the 1920s when you
infill with anomalies that are nearer to zero. You can see this in their Fig6. This version
is better than their previous one.
I always assumed they still had gaps - as it would be impossible to infill the
Antarctic and some parts of the Southern Oceans. Have you tried looking at their Antarctic
average - 65-90S for example?
Their globe should be one domain, so not (NH+SH)/2 but for an infilled dataset this
shouldn't make any difference.
I wonder if they downweight the infilled values in some way? They have their error
field?
The 2008 paper doesn't say how they compute Global and NH and SH. Are NH and SH the same
as you get?
Cheers

 

[Cat_Driver]

Read em for yourself

Index of /climategate/1/FOIA/mail