Global Warming News

[mostly_gas]

Whats the truth you ask? Well It should be obvious what happens when proper peer review is performed. Is the data from Mr Mann available for the same type of review that was performed on surfacestations.org? Recent comments on Man-made global warming going back 1950's or '60's when consensus was the earth was cooling thru the mid '70's? Is it too much to ask that when scientific papers are published, that they are reviewed to remove errors? Data integrity, availability and peer review are important parts of the scientific process. When Mann, Jones and IPCC start to behave like scientists and not political scientist I think will will see more people take AWG more seriously.

 

[clemsonfor]

not saying local conditions dictate the overall climate, but when almost the entire southeast gets snow in most areas the most in over 10-20 years how does this occur in a warmer climate? Oh yea one event dosent dictate a cooler climate, have we forgot the January that we had here in SC the coldest on record in something like 30 years power comsumption of most customers was 1.5 times normal for this period last year. WE had ice on the ground for something like 10 days and did not get above freezing for i think three days and three mourning in a row were below 18 deg. I have never seen it this cold since i can remember, now im only 27 but thats cold.

 

[Pilot]

Good catch on the Menne writeup. A couple caveats, however.

When you survey over 1000 weather stations, with no one looking at the sites beforehand, it's hard to cherry pick the ones to survey. The siting ratings are real and were made following NOAA criteria; the photos may certainly have been cherry picked.

There has to be a reason that NOAA has developed standards for locating weather stations and I would expect the standards are based on research. To assert there is no difference between stations located in line with NOAA standards vs. those not so located brings into question the validity of the standards. Menne can be right only if the standards are worthless.

The weather station record went back as much as 100 years or more, depending on the station. But Menne's comparison only went back to 1980. When you look at the photos, you see a lot of infrastructure that appears to have been built before 1980. We just don't know.

I believe the weather station siting situation needs a close, unbiased look and the evidence as I see it suggests they still have lots of problems in spite of Menne.

 

[riggerjack]

OK guys, it's been fun reading, but I'm only up to page 51. it'll take a bit to get the rest of the way through, and I wanted to post this before this thread gets closed.
in the beginning of the thread there was a call for a debate. it has happened. only once to my knowledge, but a few years ago, IQ2 sponsored a debate about global warming and crisis. I don't know if you are familiar with them, they are a debating society. they pulled in th biggest names willing to risk losing, so of course there's no Mr Gore there, but Michael Crichton was.
this was a serious debate, by folks with a professional stake on both sides. this link goes to the videos, and a transcript of the debate.

MichaelCrichton.com | IQ2 Debate: Global Warming Is Not a Crisis - Part 1 of 10

i found this back when i was looking into global warming on my own. it's the only place i've seen folks from both sides coming together in a structured environment and talk about this.
this thread has been a little snippy at times, but i really appreciate that it has been allowed to go so long. there have been some well articulated arguments. i can't claim to be neutral on this subject, but this was the closest i've seen to a civil discussion on neutral ground in a forum.
it's nice to be on a site that has members who can talk about these heart felt subjects without it turning into a name calling, mud slinging contest.
i'll check back in when i've caught up. in the mean time, enjoy the debate.

 

[turnkey4099]

not saying local conditions dictate the overall climate, but when almost the entire southeast gets snow in most areas the most in over 10-20 years how does this occur in a warmer climate? Oh yea one event dosent dictate a cooler climate, have we forgot the January that we had here in SC the coldest on record in something like 30 years power comsumption of most customers was 1.5 times normal for this period last year. WE had ice on the ground for something like 10 days and did not get above freezing for i think three days and three mourning in a row were below 18 deg. I have never seen it this cold since i can remember, now im only 27 but thats cold.

And meanwhile the entire Pacific Northwest is setting records for the warmest ever and least snowfall ever. What's your point?

Harry K

 

[Pilot]

Weather is not climate!

 

[Mousefield]

Weather and climate change every year. Last winter we had the most snow since 1996 and this year we had the warmest January on record in British Columbia. February is shaping up to be a very mild one on the west coast of Canada. Are the ice caps and glaciers melting? Sure looks like it from pictures I致e seen.

 

[FallbrookFarmer]

Is there a point to this or are you just making random comments?

This reminds me of the Monty Python Sketch where a guy enters a room and says "I'm here for an argument" and the man already in the room say's "No your not!"

Well I AM here for an argument!!!
hehe
Sorry about the random comments, just trying to catch up,
Per Eddie Walkers comments about the Brits doing an excellent job of covering climategate, The Guardian(hardly a right wing mouthpiece) has been doing an excellent job of uncovering all the falsities, and lack of basic research.
The Guardian for those of you who don't know, was a very pro communist news organization back in the thirties-forties.
When a writer for the NY Times(Walter Duranty) wrote a puff piece poo poo any idea of a famine in the Ukraine, during one of Stalin's 5 year plans
he won a Pulitzer prize for the series(It has never been withdrawn)
Malcom Muggeridge, who was then a writer for the Guardian, and a communist, went to the Soviet Union and discovered that between 8-15 MILLION people had died of starvation. He got NO recognition.
Subsequent news reports revealed that Muggerridge was corect and Duranty was a liar.
The Guardian is now leading the charge against Phil Jones and the rest of the global warming proponenets.
Giving the Guardian's history, I guess I will take their reporting over the NYTIMES/CNN/NPR
I will now head for the nearest pub, where I will be doing research for tractorbynet as to the best beer in London!
Cheers

 

[newbury]

Just found this thread, and at over 100 pages with less than one really worthwhile post per page I thought I'd add my own worthless post.

I suspect all these links have been posted before:
Global warming opens new Arctic shipping lane / The Christian Science Monitor - CSMonitor.com

http://neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov/wais/

I saw one comment by a youngster on here "coldest winter since I've been alive" 27 years old.
Yup - where was he in 1977? I flew over the Chesapeake bay in a chopper documenting it's being frozen over. Oh wait- he wasn't born YET.
Annapolis Stories: The Big Freeze: Art Tuers Columnists (www.HometownAnnapolis.com - The Capital)

Why is it snowing so much? Doesn't that mean it's colder?

WHERE?? Not at the Olympics. Oh maybe those people think it's all staged, like the moon landing.

Has anyone ever boiled water?

When you heat water it evaporates, condenses, comes back down.

I work with a bunch of naysayers that wouldn't admit the GLOBE is getting warmer, even though the Arctic is opening up. Their like a frog in a slowly heating pot waiting for it to boil.

Of course some of them also deny evolution.

But the fittest guys are going to rise to the top, and those that can keep their act together and be ready for the future will realize a better future.

 

[bstrom]

Hey I've heard that some crazy people think the earth is round like a ball, can you believe that? Anybody can see that it's flat with bumps on it.

Just like global warming - I mean even though the polar ice is melting over the long term and that's documented fact, it sure has been snowing a lot and it feels cold this winter. That must mean global warming is just a liberal plot to get money and use less fossil fuels because even though there are guys that have studied it all their lives and have access to the tools and instruments to record and analyze the data, hey - it feels cold and snowy this winter to me so it must be a hoax.

 

[EddieWalker]

Nobody knows if the planet is warming or cooling. This is the point. The scientist have been proven to be liars, and it's now a game of what side you chose to be on.

THERE IS NO SCIENCE TO PROVE THE CLAIMS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pick your team, but remember that's all you can do. All the so called experts are dropping like flies and it's getting harder and harder to find anything that might resemble a fact that man is the cause of the planets temperature. Whether the planet is warming, coolling or staing the same, there is no proof that man is causing any of it.

Eddie

 

[The Haymaker]

Their like a frog in a slowly heating pot waiting for it to boil.

Ah yes, the scientific frog test. Need for me to make a video testing this theory? Boy, would Mr. Gore have to come up with some backpedaling, err, clarifying on why MY frog was smart enough to move.

Speaking of Sir Gore, anyone heard from him this month? Sunning on some tropical island beach, while telling the locals to run because they will be underwater in a year?

 

[Ken45101]

I mean even though the polar ice is melting over the long term and that's documented fact

It's a "documented fact" only if one carefully filters the data for the results they want. Yes, the North polar ice is melting, but the South polar ice is building up! Of course those who want to "prove" global warming conveniently leave out the later fact.

 

[IH3444]

A perfect storm is brewing for the IPCC - Telegraph

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/28/opinion/28gore.html

 

[Eagleview]

I think Baked Beans should be banned !

 

[Mousefield]

The weather is and always will change thus this will then change the climate. We have been hotter and colder. At this time the glaciers in British Columbia are melting, cause?

 

[bstrom]

It's a "documented fact" only if one carefully filters the data for the results they want. Yes, the North polar ice is melting, but the South polar ice is building up! Of course those who want to "prove" global warming conveniently leave out the later fact.

Yeah, well that is really hard to measure at the South pole since it grows and shrinks every year. They can document the Northern ice however. Read this.

As arctic ice melts, South Pole ice grows / The Christian Science Monitor - CSMonitor.com

Unless you would just rather get your "facts" from Fox News.
After all they have proven that the scientists are liars.

Is there proof that burning massive amounts of fossil fuels is doing it? Well I don't think they have proof -yet- but there is a suspicion based on certain parameters. I think it's worth continuing the research, even if we just improve the air quality based on the research.

 

[newbury]

I think Baked Beans should be banned !

But I thought that those were the source for T Boone Pickens natural gas for vehicles!

Of course we will all have to drive around with a strategically place gas tube.

 

[dcyrilc]

Hey I've heard that some crazy people think the earth is round like a ball, can you believe that? Anybody can see that it's flat with bumps on it.

Just like global warming - I mean even though the polar ice is melting over the long term and that's documented fact, it sure has been snowing a lot and it feels cold this winter. That must mean global warming is just a liberal plot to get money and use less fossil fuels because even though there are guys that have studied it all their lives and have access to the tools and instruments to record and analyze the data, hey - it feels cold and snowy this winter to me so it must be a hoax.

And the antartics getting thicker.

 

[dave1949]

Here is some interesting reading on the politics and business behind climate change/AGW.

Climate Inc. BP’s Exit from USCAP: An Alarm Signal?

Not all scientists agree the Antarctic sheet ice is growing in the way it is decribed. Others are modeling the effects of the ozone hole and warming mid-latitudes in the southern hemisphere, and the consequences that may have on the Antarctic ice sheet growth and decline. Some predict a rapid decline in the Antarctic ice sheet in the next 10 to 20 years based upon those models.

I continue to find the science behind AGW is never as simple as various factions would like us to believe.

Since no denier or skeptic can explain away the measured rise in CO2, the argument has shifted to - well, more CO2 must be better, after all they pump it into commercial greenhouses. That is the same pattern that the temperature increase argument followed. First the earth was not getting warmer, then, well it is, but it would be better for us anyways.

No one has any proof that significantly increasing CO2 levels will have no deleterious effects on people and the plant life we depend upon. There are scientists working on it, CO2 saturation levels and consequent PH acidity shift of the ocean surface in particular, and it's effects on coral reefs and other shell-forming marine life.

The same is true of global temperature rise. Where are the definitive controlled studies showing the benefits of a significantly warmer global average temperature? Does anyone really think you are going to tell your children and grandchildren not to worry, the dinosaurs and proto-mammals did just fine 65 million years ago?
Dave.