Generators and CO

[3930dave]

No offense to anyone, but people do not need General Science knowledge, all they need to do is read, or even look at, the first few pages of their generator Owner's Manual. In this situation, they probably thought since the generator was 'outside' in the garage, they were safe.

My generator is sitting on our open, front porch. To secure it, I have a steel cable, routed through the frame, then through a loop on a security spike, that's driven 3 feet into the ground all secured by a hardened lock.

Nice (and safe) setup Mike. Was that spike an off-the-shelf item, or did you make it yourself ?

Agreed, all people have to do is (RTFM !) follow the OEM instructions. My initial comment relates to the Reading-without-Comprehending that can/does occur when people are clueless about basic science.

Saw somebody interviewed on the news last night. His family ended up going to the hospital because the father was using a charcoal bbq indoors for heat. Chances are there was a warning printed on the bag of charcoal. Data isn't much use, w/o the intelligence needed to process it accordingly.

Rgds, D.

 

[nybirdman]

We just had a local;non fatal case.With no power,the gentleman ran a gas powered generator in the back bedroom of a single wide trailer.Just lucky his wife woke up and went for help,nine month old and father survived.Hard to believe some-one could be that ignorant of Co poisoning.

 

[MikePA]

Was that spike an off-the-shelf item, or did you make it yourself ?

It was an off-the-shelf item, ordered online, Click Here.

 

[brain55]

Thanks for sharing that Brian. Clearly, you used up a couple of your 9 lives that day.

Am I remembering correctly ? You had an exhaust leak that you weren't aware of ?

Given your level of mechanical knowledge, that is a significant example of how easy these faults are to overlook.

Rgds, D.

Yep, the muffler had cracked.

The gooseneck trailer I have now the compressor is up on the step deck isolated from the main body, and never gets run without plenty of ventilation.

Brian

 

[3930dave]

It was an off-the-shelf item, ordered online, Click Here.

Thanks Mike - that is a great looking design, at a good price !

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

Yep, the muffler had cracked.

The gooseneck trailer I have now the compressor is up on the step deck isolated from the main body, and never gets run without plenty of ventilation.

Brian

Good to hear, getting one Mulligan like that is a big deal, I wouldn't count on two !

Rgds, D.

 

[ericher69]

3) Do I understand your comment correctly ericher ? Are you saying that home type CO monitors are designed to trip at the high end of exposure level ? I'm thinking that the goal here is to not trip an alarm company alarm, for just a piece of burnt toast. Rgds, D.

Yes,

Burnt toast should not set them off; will make your smoke alarm sing though...

CO alarms are "nuisance" calls 90% of the time.

Some of them work by a permeable disc that absorbs the CO triggering an alarm. These discs can and will saturate over time. So we air the out outside for an hour and plug them back in and usually ok.

Fabric softener sheets will also make them alarm

Here is some good simple reading if anyone is interested

http://home.howstuffworks.com/home-improvement/household-safety/tips/carbon-monoxide-detector1.htm

 

[Oliver1655]

Mike, unfortunately even the efforts you made wouldn't slow a thief down more than 30 seconds. In this day & age, there are lots of handy tools which most of us have that make traditional methods of securing items literally worthless. I hear reports all the time of very bold thefts with mid-morning being popular d/t the large number of households where both spouses are working. They have specific items they target. Frequently it is metals which can be scrapped out. How many time have you heard of folks waking up to no air-conditioning because the copper lines have been taken during the night?

I, like Roy can understand the idea of having the generator in the garage where it was not in the elements & potentially more secure making sure the doors were open. Even on your front porch if the wind is blowing right, carbon monoxide can be send into your home via soffits, drafty windows, & doors. For some folks in certain areas there is no good place to have the generator. What if you live in an upstairs apartment without an balcony?

We are blessed to live out in the country. Our generator is located in a lean-to on my shop. I can back-feed the house from there.

 

[oldballs]

My son's generator was stolen from beside his home in a rural area. Thieves are everywhere. While attending a funeral my cousin's place (also in a rural area) was cleaned out with a moving van. But running a generator in an attached garage might fool some people as to the inherent danger of CO.

 

[3930dave]

Yes,

Burnt toast should not set them off; will make your smoke alarm sing though...

CO alarms are "nuisance" calls 90% of the time.

Some of them work by a permeable disc that absorbs the CO triggering an alarm. These discs can and will saturate over time. So we air the out outside for an hour and plug them back in and usually ok.

Fabric softener sheets will also make them alarm

Here is some good simple reading if anyone is interested

HowStuffWorks "Inside a Carbon Monoxide Detector "

Good link, thanks. Makes sense that the sensors will accumulate, given how our bodies react to CO.

Hadn't heard that one about fabric softener, interesting. I suspect that sensitivity may vary, depending on the actual sensor in use.

Rgds, D.

 

[buickanddeere]

Our generator is located in a lean-to on my shop. I can back-feed the house from there.

Wait a minute. What do you mean "backfeeding" ? No transfer switch and back feeding 120/240 into a welder receptacle ?

 

[MikePA]

Mike, unfortunately even the efforts you made wouldn't slow a thief down more than 30 seconds.

I am not under any illusion that my installation would be nothing more than a brief diversion to someone determined to steal the generator, but that's true of all security measures.

In this day & age, there are lots of handy tools which most of us have that make traditional methods of securing items literally worthless.

No offense, but according to this logic, i.e., 'literally worthless', people should not lock their doors to their houses, or cars or anything else.

Even on your front porch if the wind is blowing right, carbon monoxide can be send into your home via soffits, drafty windows, & doors.

This is true for any structure downwind from a running generator. If my doors and windows are that drafty, then I figure enough fresh air is entering somewhere else. The goal is not to eliminate all risk from a running generator, since that's impossible. The goal is to take reasonable steps to minimize it and understand the risks that remain.

For some folks in certain areas there is no good place to have the generator. What if you live in an upstairs apartment without an balcony?

If they have no good place to have a generator, then they shouldn't have one.

Our generator is located in a lean-to on my shop. I can back-feed the house from there.

I truly hope you are not backfeeding your house and placing the people trying to restore utility power at risk.

 

[kenmac]

Mike, unfortunately even the efforts you made wouldn't slow a thief down more than 30 seconds. In this day & age, there are lots of handy tools which most of us have that make traditional methods of securing items literally worthless.

You can make up all the excuses you want. You risk your generator being stolen , or the life of your family. I secure mine in a somewhat similar fashion. I can tell you for sure which I'll risk. This likens to people that store their propane tanks inside the home. garage, etc and, have no idea why their home exploaded

 

[Mike476]

When I built the house almost 15 years ago we installed a generator panel (given the climate and history for power outages in our area). If I remember the cost was under $500, not much when considering the cost of building a home.

You would think, in the interest of preventing people from rigging something up themselves and unknowingly placing other people's lives at risk, that this would become a code requirement for new construction. What area isn't susceptible to a power outage given today's weather patterns?

As far as those who have lost their lives, their tragedy is enough to remind the rest of us that a moments lapse in judgement is all it takes; most of us can tell stories of things we've done that we knew better than to attempt, and thankfully got away with it.

These folks weren't so lucky, there are those who believe if it's OK to start their car in the garage how can it not be safe for me to run a generator there; not such a stretch............ I certainly won't judge them for it.

 

[MikePA]

You would think, in the interest of preventing people from rigging something up themselves and unknowingly placing other people's lives at risk, that this would become a code requirement for new construction. What area isn't susceptible to a power outage given today's weather patterns?

How would the installation of a generator panel have prevented this CO poisoning? The issue is not how the generator power is fed into the home (through a panel), it's where the generator is located. Installing a panel could actually increase the problem by making it easier to plug a generator in without considering its location. No offense, but far too many regulations are created with the best of intentions (an emotional reaction to a tragedy) but absent any facts, e.g., risk analysis or a study of whether power outages are increasing, are they tied to 'today's weather patterns', etc., and if they actually solve more problems than they create, which generates more regulations. Laws could also be passed that all power lines be underground. Where does such emotional reaction to tragic, but isolated, episodes end?

These folks weren't so lucky, there are those who believe if it's OK to start their car in the garage how can it not be safe for me to run a generator there; not such a stretch............ I certainly won't judge them for it.

Again no offense, but I don't think people confuse starting their car in the garage, with the intent of driving away, with running a generator.

 

[Mike476]

No offense taken, we're all entitled to our opinions and form them from our own experiences. I enjoy a good discussion.

The comment regarding the generator panel was in response to the the observation you and others made regarding backfeeding, the installation of a generator panel by a licensed electrician comes complete with the protection switching required to prevent injury to lineman working on power lines. It also automatically switches from the emergency panel to my normal panel when normal power is returned.

As far as whether people confuse starting their car with the intent of driving away and the running of a generator is concerned, most of us would know the hazards associated with doing it, for those who do not, as I said it's not such a stretch to understand how they could have come to that conclusion.