gear vs. hydro for pulling tiller

DK35vince · Dec 22, 2004

Some of the Grand L- 30 series Kubota's with the FST (syncro shuttle transmissions) are 8F/8R with optional creeper gear.
Some of the Kioti DK's are the same way.
The creeper gear option makes them 16F/16R

larso1 · Dec 22, 2004

Hi Soundguy,
On the Ford 8N's, I was reading several posts on another forum about the possibility of tilling with these old tractors and the fact that the ground speeds were just too fast. International had the torque amplifier option which got the speed lower, maybe 1.5mph. And I think Oliver's 550 and Super 55 had first gear ranges that were close to that. One fellow said that Sherman made high, low, and high-low auxiliary transmissions for the Ford 8N that allow slow ground speeds in that range. However, another guy said that not only do the Sherman low range units slow the ground speed, but they also slow the PTO speed in proportion due to the fact that they come off the "other side" of the transmission (non-live). True? If that's the case, I assume the Sherman unit wouldn't do you any good for tilling.

Bill in CO

Bob_Skurka · Dec 22, 2004

I can't tell you anything about the Sherman units because I am unfamiliar with them, but you are pretty much on target with the speed of the Oliver 550 and Super 55s. They are too fast in low gear for tilling. I suppose they are great for pulling a plow (I never tried to do that with one of mine) but for tilling they run a bit too fast.

widmn · Dec 22, 2004

Frankly, if you haven't had Vidalia onions, you haven't lived!!!!!

larso1 · Dec 22, 2004

I've had Vidalia's onions........I prefer her tomatoes....frankly.

Moon · Dec 23, 2004

You got er right!
Vidalia onions on a burger, with silver queen corn on the cob as a side! Man I'm making myself hungry.

Moon of Ohio

widmn · Dec 23, 2004

Yeah, and those Vidalias need to be thick cut for full effect. The corn sounds good too. How bout a thick juicy Ribeye grilled on a charcoal Weber instead of that burger? Slap it all on a big bun and rip away.

Soundguy · Dec 24, 2004

( I assume the Sherman unit wouldn't do you any good for tilling )

Correct. The sherman ( and hupp for that matter ) were pre- aux trannies, and took the place of the tranny input shaft.

They dropped ( or raised ) the ground speed by simply adding gar ranges to the tranny. The pto is driven off the tranny counter shaft directly.. so ground speed changes almost always effect pto speeds. Except** if you use a couple of specific type aux post trannies. One was an everet, and the other was a howard. The howard was the nicer one as it actually replaced some o fthe tranny gearing with mechanical reduction. You could lower the groundspeed to a crawl using the howard.. as it dropped the pinion speed.. but not the pto speed. The howard aux post tranny was made specifically for the howard rotavator.

There was also an evert post aux tranny. it was a piece that actually went inbetween the tranny and diffy.. making the tractor about 8" longer. It accomplished the same feat.. seperating the feed for the pto and pinion drive... Thus you could lower ground speed and retian pto speed.

Sherman and hup pre trannies would let you lower your eng rpm, and keep ground speed and pto speed at 'normal'.. I guess if you had a pto application that didn't require much HP.. and you didn't want the engine revved to 1500 rpm to get pto rpm...You could shift into overdrive, lower engine rpm to a point wher ethe pto was at normal rpm.. etc..

Soundguy

CMunger · Dec 24, 2004

Chris- The Sherman transmission parts are rare and extremly hard to find. How are the service parts on the other makes you have mentioned. If a Sherman goes down it is usually removed and the standard input shaft is installed
Chuck M.

Soundguy · Dec 25, 2004

The everet and howard aux tranies are very rare... as you stated.. hard to find sherman parts except in extreme circumstances.. except that shermans are fairly plentiful. I see them on ebay for 200-800 all the time.

I hear that some machinist is going to fab parts for the howard trannies, as it is a simple gear set.

Soundguy

MossRoad · Dec 27, 2004

Remember this?

World's slowest tractor @ 1 foot per hour.

Other neat stuff, too. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

LBrown59 · Dec 27, 2004

( It may not cut it but it sure rips it. )

Lol : I liked this touch.

LBrown59 · Dec 27, 2004

( The younger members here will be wondering "what is Dragnet". /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif )
BADGE 714

Soundguy · Dec 27, 2004

(
World's slowest tractor @ 1 foot per hour.
)

Yep.. Marv's te 8n king in most places.

Soundguy

HAILEYSCOMET · Aug 25, 2005

I KNOW THAT I'M TALKING APPLES & ORANGES HERE BUT LET ME GIVE MY 2 CENTS ON THE HYDRO vs GEAR CONVERSATION....I PULL GARDEN TRACTORS AND I AM USING A "STOCK" JOHN DEERE 140 H1 THAT I WAS LAUGHED AT AND TOLD I DID NOT STAND A CHANCE AGAINST ALL THE CUB'S AND OTHER GEAR DRIVEN TRACTORS....WELL BOY'S & GIRLS LET ME TELL YOU MY TRACTOR HAS BEEN PULLING FOR OVER 7 YEARS WITH ALL THE ORIGINAL 1969 ENGINE & HYDRO PARTS THAT IT CAME OUT WITH AND IS STILL PULLING AWAY....I DON'T WIN EVERY CONTEST BUT I DON'T LOSE BY MUCH WHEN I DO LOSE. I'VE NEVER FINISHED OUT OF THE TOP 3 IN THE STOCK OR SUPER STOCK CLASS.....AND I PULL AGAINST SOME BOYS THAT GOT LOTS OF MONEY IN THERE FANCY SMANCY CUB CLUTCHES AND SETUP'S SO I SAY PULL THE GUTS OUT OF THAT GEAR DRIVE DISMANTLE IT AND GO HYDRO OR GO HOME....LOL....SERIOUSLY JUST THINK ANYONE THAT DON'T LIKE HYDRO'S JUST DON'T OWN ONE!!!!

Soundguy · Aug 26, 2005

( SERIOUSLY JUST THINK ANYONE THAT DON'T LIKE HYDRO'S JUST DON'T OWN ONE!!!! )

I'd guess yuo are assuming a whole bunch.

Standard advice given here is to drive both.. pick what you like..

At work i can look out my window and pick from about 2 million dollars worth of equipment to drive if I want to get my clothes dirty... 90% of it is hydro drive. When I started at the company 15+ years ago I was driving equipment.. so I've had plenty of experience of hydro vs gear. as a result.. I don't prefer/like hydro's....All my tractors parked in my barn are gear drive... and that was an informed choice. When I let the clutch out I want the wheels to turn or the engine to stall.. and not have some valve pop open and the engine roaring and the wheels not moving...

Soundguy

Boomerang1 · Aug 26, 2005

Soundguy, On my hydro DX33, I can put my bucket up against a large pile of dirt on hard ground and make all 4 wheels spin with the tach at 1,400 rpm. That's with loaded rear tires and a 450# BB. That is the same thing that a geared machine could do so what is the difference? If I am on concrete I can make the engine lug down also, but at some point it will hit the relief valve wich protects the clutch and drivetrain. On a geared machine, if the tires have traction and the engine lugs down, what's going to give out first? the clutch?, an axle? or maybe a driveshaft?
Having said this, I do know how to operate my machine to avoid doing these things, but I did them when I first got my machine just to find it's operating limits.

crashz · Aug 26, 2005

I bought my machine primarily for the light loader work that could be done with it. My father owns an excavating company, so we have a variety of large loaders, the smallest being a Cat 416 TLB. All obviously hydro.

Last weekend I had some light loader work to do with my tractor (JD 770 gear). It invovled scooping up gravel and stone and dumping it over a block wall that was being built. Scooping up the material was easy as ithe ground was flat and even and I was in tight quarters. Dumping over the wall was very difficult. In front of the wall was loose lumpy fill that was excavated out for the wall and just dumped. On top of that I had to get within 6 inches of the wall ( and not hit it!) so that my tiny loader could reach over it . So here I am trying to creep up to the wall without hitting it and throught bumps an dips large enough to tip the tractor. Of course the guy who hired me kept trying to push me to go faster, but it just wasn't gona happen. I finally had to level the area in front of the wall before continuing, much to his displeasure. I never stalled, but I do feel that this would have been much less stressful on me and the tractor if it were a hydro transmission.

For loader work, hydro is much easier on everything. My next machine will be the same size but hydro.

Soundguy · Aug 27, 2005

( On my hydro DX33, I can put my bucket up against a large pile of dirt on hard ground and make all 4 wheels spin with the tach at 1,400 rpm. That's with loaded rear tires and a 450# BB. That is the same thing that a geared machine could do so what is the difference? If I am on concrete I can make the engine lug down also, but at some point it will hit the relief valve wich protects )

Boom.. I'm not disputing your claims.. but looking back at the archives here.. there are MANY MANY instances of messages about people relief setting popping off low.. and leaving tractors stranded at the bottom of hills. Some of these were plain incorrect relief settings.. etc.. some were not.

Like I said.. -I- prefer gear.. you obviously prefer hydro.. to each his own.

My response was to the fellow that made the blanket statement that if someone did not like hydro that they had not tried it.. I've got plenty of hydro exxperience.... that's why i drive a gear tractor..

Soundguy

Dargo · Aug 27, 2005

( Standard advice given here is to drive both.. pick what you like..)

Gees, that would confuse me. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif I've owned several of each. After quite a bit of time on each, I've found that for some things I prefer gear, and for other things I prefer hydro. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif I'm not in the least trying to be politically correct here, that is just my observations. Go figure...I don't have a real opinion one way or another on a subject. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif