gear vs. hydro for pulling tiller

Bob_Skurka · Dec 20, 2004

Just a question, or perhaps an observation, but lowering the engine RPMs to a level that would cause a 1000rpm PTO to run at approxminately 540rpm would very likely cause a substantial drop in torque. Or I certainly think it would, as the torque curve of most engines typically peaks near the peak of the HP curve, and both of those typically are near the rpm range required to run the PTO at 540 rpm.

KiotiJohn · Dec 20, 2004

( If you were lacking power to pull the tiller in first gear because it moved to fast, wouldn't lowering the RPM to get 540 on a 1000 PTO be counter productive. You would have even less power then (because of less RPM) when PTO power is what you were lacking in the first place.)
Dargo, he's talking about increasing the PTO RPM to 1000, not lowering it to 540. While, in theory, this may work, but raising to PTO 1000 and then lowering the RPM effectively does the same thing, lowers it to less than 1000. Operating a tiller rated for 540 RPM at a higher RPM may damage the tiller, and the tractor still may travel too fast for effective tilling. I read an article related to this, but can't find it now.
John
EDIT: Just reread your post Dargo, and you said the same thing I did, but I read yours wrong the first time. Guess it's time for more sleep again! John

Tractors4u · Dec 20, 2004

( I think that many CUT gear tractors have 1st set too high for proper tilling. )

I have 3 ranges on my gear tractor for a total of 12 speeds. In mid range first gear it is slow enough for tilling. I rarely put the tractor in the lowest range.

Bob_Skurka · Dec 20, 2004

Brent, your JD is one of the more versitile tractors out there, many small CUTs don't have the gear range you have.

JerryG · Dec 20, 2004

I rarely put the tractor in the lowest range. 
That is the way I am most of the time. Mine has 4 ranges with 4 speeds in each (16 speeds).

milkman · Dec 21, 2004

I like that recipe also, but I use white onions, they're just better IMHO. Don't want to turn this into a yellow vs white discussion though. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

kensfarm · Dec 21, 2004

The TC35D hydro is a fine tractor.. will pull a two bottom plow all day(okay I've only done 4-5 hours at one time).. will run a tiller(the tiller actually makes the tractor work harder then the plows).. bushhog.. and w/ an FEL.. it'll get the job done. I've had mine for almost 5 years now.. for mowing & part time farming/gardening.. you won't regret it!

Bob_Skurka · Dec 21, 2004

I like that recipe also, but I use white onions, they're just better IMHO. Don't want to turn this into a yellow vs white discussion though. 

Milkman, I respect your decision not to want to turn this into a yellow versus white discussion, but some of us prefer a good red onion to top off our burgers or for roasting with butter inside foil on the BBQ. Personally I feel somewhat slighted by your insensitive comment that omits red onions completely. I can only imagine the pain that the garlic and leek lovers of the world feel based on your exclusionary comments.

thcri · Dec 21, 2004

( 
I like that recipe also, but I use white onions, they're just better IMHO. Don't want to turn this into a yellow vs white discussion though. )

Actually, I can't stand onions!! /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

murph

Soundguy · Dec 21, 2004

( Soundguy, that is exactly my experience with an old Oliver and an old Ford, 1st was simply too fast for tilling up my hard )

Yep.. those machines could plow all day.. but tilling.. they were too fast for. Ford had an aux tranny that worked around this.. but it is rare..

( think that many CUT gear tractors have 1st set too high for proper tilling.
)

Old ones anyway. most of the 'new' onews seem to have all sorts of gearing. My ex-Nh 1920 and my 7610s have/had 1st/1st or 1st and low ranges that were painfully slow..Methinks those would be ok for tilling.

Soundguy

Bob_Skurka · Dec 21, 2004

Actually, I can't stand onions!! 

Murph, if you use a sharp knife, you can cut the base off so you have a flat spot on the bottom. They stand pretty stable that way. Do it a couple times and it will become second nature to you. You won't have any trouble standing them after that.

cowboydoc · Dec 21, 2004

I have 3 ranges on my gear tractor for a total of 12 speeds. 

All of the bigger name tractors this is certainly pretty standard for a CUT Bob. Which tractor doesn't have at least 3 ranges in the CUT class??

CMunger · Dec 21, 2004

It depends if you need the power to move at a faster ground speed, and how wide the tiller is. And yes you would run the tiller at the same RPM at 1000 as you would at 540, the engine would be throttled back. As far as power loss at a lower RPM, yes that is true, but how much depends on the torque curve of the engine, and what RPM that lower speed is, and that is a "Whole Other Kettle Of Fish". These "Coffee Shop Demo's" never worked for me.
Chuck M.

Bob_Skurka · Dec 21, 2004

Doc, take a look at the discount brands that are about 3 to 7 years old. There are lots of those units out there and many have 8 speeds (4x2) instead of 12 (4x3) or 16 (4x4). The Jinma 20hp units sold by Northern have a 6 speed forward, 2 reverse gearbox and 1st gear is set at 1mph. Kioti's LB1914 has an 8 speed gearbox, 1st is set at 0.75mph which is probably fine in many conditions but still too fast in some. Mahindra's 2015 has a 6 speed gear box, don't know the minimum speed but I can guess it is not 0.5mph or lower. There are other examples, but depending on soil conditions, even 0.5mph may be too high of a speed sometimes.

_RaT_ · Dec 21, 2004

Oh Murph, really? Perhaps your just not getting them prepared right. Whether it's yellow, white or my favorite for salads and meats, the red onion, they all add a spice to life that is quite wonderful. Out here in California we have so many varities of vegetables available year around, it makes it hard to resist stopping by the many thousands of ag stands dotted throughout the highways and picking up the local fruits and nuts. Rat...

PS, I tried the Sportsman 500. Very nice!

bandit67 · Dec 21, 2004

( Out here in California it makes it hard to resist stopping and picking up the local fruits and nuts )

You pick up a lot of hitchhikers? I think some of those fruits and nuts keep moving out here to be with the other fruits and nuts in Boulder. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

RoyJackson · Dec 21, 2004

"Which tractor doesn't have at least 3 ranges in the CUT class?? "

Well, the 790's only have 2 ranges for a total of 8 speeds forward, 2 reverse.

But, again...1st gear low is 0.7 MPH. That's too fast for tilling?

DavesTractor · Dec 21, 2004

( But, again...1st gear low is 0.7 MPH. That's too fast for tilling? )

Under most circumstances, it is a little fast. For example, crawl ranges in the Yanmar's that are built specifically for tilling are normally in the 0.01 MPH in crawl 1st to about 0.20 MPH in crawl 3rd range. Yes, that is about 8 feet a minute, or about 32 sq. feet per minute with a 4' tiller at the slowest ground speed. It makes itty-bitty pieces out of the earth.

0.7 MPH, like in your JD 790 will work OK on previously tilled soil or if you make a few light passes. People use such machines all the time and are satisfied, but if they used a true crawl range tractor or an HST to rototill, they would then know what they had been missing.

chickenfarmer · Dec 22, 2004

/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

cowboydoc · Dec 22, 2004

I agree with you on the discount brands Bob. I'm talking about the name brand deluxe models that you could even get a hydro on. If you're looking at a unit that you could get hydro on then every unit I've looked at that wasn't a low end model you had either 12 or 16 gears.