gear vs. hydro for pulling tiller

/ gear vs. hydro for pulling tiller #141  
I think its a stretch to say many have had these problem where the hydro tractors could not get up the hills. I want to see the facts before I believe it. I am sure when these things were made the manufacturers designed them to pull as hard as anything else,why else do they sell so many hydro's and keep selling more each year ??? /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
 
/ gear vs. hydro for pulling tiller #142  
<font color="blue">I never heard of a hydro relief valve lifting.... </font>
It is the hydro relief valve, doing what it was designed to do. It relieves the pressure at a preset pressure.
 
/ gear vs. hydro for pulling tiller #143  
I still don't believe that they are lifting at the rate or as many as he says. I have ran hydro tractors and bulldozers for years and never heard of one with a hydro relief lifting and you could not get it up a hill etc....
 
/ gear vs. hydro for pulling tiller #144  
One thing that is brought up every once in while is that dozers, crawlers and other heavy equipment have hydros also. They do have hydro and they do have a very good life cycle. The thing that is different about the hydros in heavy equipment and the hydros in small compact tractors is how heavy duty the hydro actually is and the work cycle that the unit is designed to endure. I am not cutting down or saying that the hydros in compact tractors won't do the job. No fight from me there. They do a fine job in most applications. Just that the hydro in heavy equipment compared to compact tractors is almost like comparing apples to oranges.
 
/ gear vs. hydro for pulling tiller #145  
I guess you could say the same about comparing gears in a compact tractor as comparing gears in a large tractor or dozer..its like comparing apples to oranges.I worked for 5 years in a rental yard,they rented dozers,tractors,manlifts, forktrucks etc.and compact tractors. The owner slowly phased out the geared compact tractors..why ..because people would ride the clutches and rake the gears on the geared tractors and they ended up in the shop too much of the time, he switched to hydro's and the maintenance on these tractors dropped a lot. The customers were not near as likely to tear up a hydro as a geared tractor and the hydro's were much easier to operate a matter of fact I don't recall a hydro ever have failed. While I was there,some of these tractors would rack up 2000 hours a year and after about 4 years when we got new ones in we would get the hydro's for replacements of the old ones.... the hydro's virtually indestructible,if something failed on the tractor it was something other than the hydro. I spent a lot of time maintaining equipment servicing etc.
I still would like to see all the "numerous posts" talking about these compacts sitting at the bottom of the hills because of the relief valves lifting on them. I never heard of it happening before.
 
/ gear vs. hydro for pulling tiller #146  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I worked for 5 years in a rental yard,they rented dozers )</font>

My day gig is working for a GC.. been at the current one for going on 15 years... We see all kinds of repairs... rear ends.. engines.. trannies.. both types. Most of our tranny problems for geared units are clutch/flywheel wear, and the 2-speed going out in the big trucks. As fro the heavy equipment with hydros... they go out and break down just as often as clutches and 2-speeds go out.

I've got a jd 644 loader in a sand pit with a no-go tranny right now.... year ago had a cat 613 pan with a no-go tranny... have hade at least a couple clutch jobs in that time frame, as well as an engine rebuild .. etc. Breakdowns do occour... nothing is bullitproof. Had a volvo loader... engine computer went south... unit wouldn't move.. all hydro controls were electric over hydraulic.. we fixed that thing and sold it as fast as we could get it to an auction.... Probably overall do more clutch jobs than hydro repairs. however.. our mechanic can drop a clutch and reinstall the new one by noon, for 500$ ... a hydro r&r job tripples those numbers and time typically..

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I still would like to see all the "numerous posts" talking about these compacts )</font>

Well then.. step away from the sub, grab a cold drink and start searching.... There are tens of thousands of posts to sift thru....go get em! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I've been here for years.. i remember the posts.. Jerry has mentioned he remembers the posts... you wanna see them.. start searching the umpteen thousand posts that are here.

I'm not knocking hydro's.. or gears.. get what you like and go with it... drivetrains are one of those personal issues just like nearly everything else on a tractor that has an option. I personally don't want to rely on fluid pressure as a motive force on a tractor..

Soundguy
 
/ gear vs. hydro for pulling tiller #147  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( <font color="blue"> Well then.. step away from the sub, grab a cold drink and start searching.... There are tens of thousands of posts to sift thru....go get em! </font> )</font> <font color="blue"> I've been here for years.. i remember the posts.. Jerry has mentioned he remembers the posts... you wanna see them.. start searching the umpteen thousand posts that are here. </font>

I have looked and I can't find any. You are the one that said there were numerous post's,so back up what you are saying .instead of making a blanket statement saying there are lots of posts,show me some...you cant is why and you have nothing to back up what you are saying...prove me wrong...type in a keyword on the search and bring some up and show me.
I would never make a statement saying all of these posts existed and then defend myself by telling someone else to go find them..you insist they are there here so find them and prove me wrong..I say they aren't there I can't find any..you say they are there ..well you show me where they are and prove me wrong .
 
/ gear vs. hydro for pulling tiller #148  
Try this:

Hydro Gear Tiller threads

I know the search can be a bit frustrating until you get used to it; only because it defaults to "exact phrase" and "1 week", instead of "and" and "all" like some popular browsers. If it still get's the better of you, just ask for asistance; people around here enjoy spending your money too much to be leading you on a snipe hunt. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Enjoy. BTW I only tried one combination, based on, I think, your exact needs. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
/ gear vs. hydro for pulling tiller #149  
Spiffy.. I think here is a link that is even more on target. here, in message # 654423 the poster specifically refers to hitting the pressure relief on his hydro sometimes when pulling trees.

TBN link

A message down a reference is made to the 'issue' I had brought up.. about the fellow that had a tractor down in a hollow and it wouldn't crawl out. There were some speculative posts.. then another reference to the 'what's ailing my kubota' post where this question was generated from.

There... took half an hour of searching to pull that up.. I'm done with it.. points proven..( there ARE references in the archives dealing with relief values/hydro tractors... ) for those that want to look for more posts.. better set down.. it's hard to do the searches thru this many posts using specific key words without pulling up 15 pages of posts...

As for now...I'm done in this thread.

Soundguy
 
/ gear vs. hydro for pulling tiller #150  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( As for now...I'm done in this thread.

Soundguy )</font>

Aww heck, you agreed with me! I like both with no real preference overall. You told me to buy both; I'm working on it. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
/ gear vs. hydro for pulling tiller #151  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( <font color="blue"> Boom.. I'm not disputing your claims.. but looking back at the archives here.. there are MANY MANY instances of messages about people relief setting popping off low.. and leaving tractors stranded at the bottom of hills. Some of these were plain incorrect relief settings.. etc.. some were not. </font> )</font>
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( <font color="blue"> took half an hour of searching to pull that up.. I'm done with it.. points proven </font>
)</font>

The only point you proved is you can't prove nothing about many hydro's failing...maybe one failure at the best..never say it unless you can back it up.
<font color="red"> there are MANY MANY instances of messages about people relief setting popping off low.. </font>
 
/ gear vs. hydro for pulling tiller #152  
Here is a link about it: hydro
 
/ gear vs. hydro for pulling tiller #153  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( <font color="blue"> had a partial check on tractor today by a fellow who is a tractor technician for a farm equipment co....but he is a New Holland guy..not Orange. Says everything looks ok as far as he can tell, no leaks, or any malfunction on pumps and reservoir. I think he agrees that maybe something happened with the hyd. log splitter and maybe i just happen to get it in a 'freaky' position on that slope where the fluid just got below the top of intake and air got in it...but...anyway, I'll not be using it until i get it to Kubota dealer. </font> )</font>

Thanks froggy. That post does not say anything about hydro's in general..except 1 hydro could not get up the hill for some unknown reason and the poster never did get back and say what exactly was wrong. The New Holland service tech did not even have a clue. One incident does not justify saying there are </font><font color="blue" class="small">( <font color="blue"> there are MANY MANY instances of messages about people relief setting popping </font> )</font>

Nothing proved there on that post.
 
/ gear vs. hydro for pulling tiller #154  
Did you miss the post about the fellow skidding logs that had his hydro relif pop? It was message # 654423

Look.. I have a job.. I'm not going to search back thru 700,000+ messages to find every instance of a hydro relief popping. In short.. I said it could happen.. you said prove it.. I did.. end of story. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif


Soundguy
 
/ gear vs. hydro for pulling tiller #155  
Post 654423 <font color="blue"> </font><font color="blue" class="small">( Yes, there sure is. On my CK20, it's set for 240 bar. When pulling trees, I've often hit the limit. Sometimes I hit it when pulling the BB and grab some tough roots. Larger tractors generally have higher PRV settings and it won't be as noticable. )</font> </font>

Here is your post: Post 722753 <font color="blue"> </font><font color="blue" class="small">( Boom.. I'm not disputing your claims.. but looking back at the archives here.. <font color="red"> but looking back at the archives here.. there are MANY MANY instances of messages about people relief setting popping off low and leaving tractors stranded at the bottom of hills. </font> Some of these were plain incorrect relief settings.. etc.. some were not. )</font> </font>

I am disputing your claim of many many many instances .
Read my post 728520 </font><font color="blue" class="small">( <font color="blue"> The only point you proved is you can't prove nothing about <font color="red"> many hydro's failing </font> ...maybe one failure at the best..never say it unless you can back it up. </font> )</font> I am referring to your exageration of the amount of reliefs popping off. Not the <font color="red"> 1 </font> you could refer me to.

Now you explain to me how <font color="red"> 1 </font> pop off relief on a tractor turns into many many many pop off reliefs with tractors setting at the bottom of the hill. What do you consider to be many ?
 
/ gear vs. hydro for pulling tiller #156  
I'm breaking my own rule here.. by replying to this post.. as it seems troll-ish..( 7 of your 8 posts have been basically negative/antagonistic towards me, froggy, and jerryg .. that and no bio info..) however.... giving the benefit of doubt...

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I am referring to your exageration of the amount of reliefs popping off. Not the 1 you could refer me to )</font>

Look.. I think you are being unrealistic here.... you wanted proof positive.. I dug far enough to show you an instance of a relief popping prematurely. Myself, and other members have metioned that we recall other posts... you want them.. go dig for them... I actually have to work for a living... It took long enough just to dig back to may of this year to find that post.

Keep in mind that many of us are transplants from other boards... it's entirely possible I/we may be remembering something previous to this board. We are human.. my brain does not log date/time of every piece of data it ever gathers... I think I was doing good to show you an -example- of what my post refered to.

I think you are being unreasonable and a tad agressive at that.. this is a hobby board.. what do you want?? blood?

Many? On a serious problem? Any number could be many... How many space shuttles exploding is too many? 1 is too many...

Like I said.. In my opinion a relief popping before max power is transfered is a bad flaw.. that in and of itself is 'too many' if you get right down to it.

A bad clutch is one thing.. that's a wear item. If it wears.. you adjust/replace it. A relief valve is not a wear issue.. if it is set too low.. or not working.. it's a flaw from the dealer/manufacturer.. depending ont he circumstances... baring of course.. tampering by the owner.. etc.

I'm going back to reading again... don't bother replying to me on this issue.. I consider it done.. you badgered me sufficiently to waste a few hours searching for an example.. I found one.. now it's not good enough... /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Soundguy
 
/ gear vs. hydro for pulling tiller #157  
Re: gear vs. hydro for pulling tiller *DELETED* *DELETED*

Post deleted by Cactus
 
/ gear vs. hydro for pulling tiller #158  
Cactus.. i can't imagine why you are jumping on the dead horse band wagon.... It seems this thread has ventured far enough off course that I'm also wondering why it is still here.

Ok.. for all the real 'retentive' types here.. I was trying to get across the point that in certain circumstances, a relief can pop before max power is reached.. vs a gear unit that would either have to have the clutch slip, gear brake, or engine stall .. etc...

In my mind.. I could immediatly recall a couple such posts of an issue with a hydro .. the one was the log skidding.. obviously from that same thread was the other I had been thinking of.. the machine not climbing the hill.. and in the end.. not much of a definate answer.

To that I point that if the machine at the bottom of the hill had been a gear unit.. a few quick checks could have deffinately told you if it was a slipping clutch... and at least isolate it to that issue.

I'm not goin to debate semantics on the word 'many'.. it is a plural reference.. In my opinion.. if a hydro fails in a way like I mentioned... that really sticks out as a sore thumb.. to have read about 2 instances of that failure.. or a similar... if not completely diagnosed one.. that makes a double sore thumb...

I've said my piece.. Please don't respond to me.. As I'll no longer respond to you either on this issue. I'ts been beat about as much as you can beat a subject.

Would it make you feel better if I officially 'retract and edit my previous statement for the sake of clarity for the extremely 'retentive' group...
replace instances of 'many' simply with multiple...

Even better.. for the supremly retentive.. how about.. 'some or any occourence'..

I think that should just about cover all the eventualities and bury this poor dead horse.

And just as a further clarification.. I stick to the original intent of my post... "any occourance" of a hydro lifting before max power is reached seems to me like a flaw.. perhaps even a dangerous flaw.. that's why I'm not a fan of fluid motive power
on my tractor... when I hit the throttle.. I want a : stall condition, a loss of traction, or a mechanical breakage ( clutch slip / gear issue ). That's obviously my opinion.. and why my tractors are all gear... I'm not trying to imply that one is 'better' than the other.. just pointing out a 'known' issue that has surfaced here.. I also realize that many people like hydro.. and many tasks are probably more suited to being completed with a hydro unit. I'm not disputing that.. I think we can safly count that as a 'given'.

There.. done.. I've said my piece.. anyone else who wants to beat the dead horse.. give me a break.. address it to someone else...

Soundguy
 
/ gear vs. hydro for pulling tiller #160  
Gosh Jerry.. you keep digging up posts about hydro problems like I did and you too will be branded a heretic...

I just love that post by jinman and the "recent number of posts" about hydrostatic problems.. Hmm.. makes ya wonder... I see you had to go back to 2004 for those... I only went back to may 2005 for mine...

Thanks for the reading. i can only imagine how much searching that took. I vaguely remember that thread.. but then.. i guess i shoul.. I posted in it... /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Soundguy
 

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