gear vs. hydro for pulling tiller

PineRidge · Dec 19, 2004

This wasn't intended as a hydro vs gear war thread was it guys? Lighten up a few shades.

Happy Holidays! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Henro · Dec 19, 2004

I do know what I a talking about...[snip]... Because in my opinion, they cant cut it. 

Not to add fuel to the fire, but I think this is exactly what you are talking about: Your opinion.

I would not doubt that many held the same kind of opinions about automatic transmissions back in the late 40' early 50's. Different transmission, different application, but same thought process...

Fact VS Fiction. Opinion can find itself on either side of the pivot point. Opinion needs to be backed up with some facts; otherwise it just floats away... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

sassafraspete · Dec 19, 2004

Could we move this thread over to the Mahindra site, as those guys really need the post numbers?

I can understand how variable low speeds can be a benefit with the tiller, however I have a 6 footer on a 40HP Branson shuttle shift.....and I can do a number on my hard clay soil, so I agree with Vince on this one. Also, you can play games by altering pto speed, and RPM speed on the branson and also changing depth. of I am attaching a picture .....sod ground, hadn't been plowed in 20 yrs.

sassafraspete

JerryG · Dec 19, 2004

I have 1400 hundred hours on my JD 4400 so far and I flat out work the heck out of it,and I have had no hydro problems yet.
By hard work, I don't think that you, in that 1400 hours have ever used the max. horsepower that the engine will develop for more than a few minutes at a time. Because the throttle is turned up or the directions are changed allot doesn't equate to working the tractor hard. A hydro would even work for what I do most of the time or many even all of the time. I just have one piece of equipment that requires max. horsepower for any length of time. It would more than likely work with it, because there is a turn around (cooling cycle) every 500 feet.
 I have pulled so much that I wore out the part on my axle housing where the lower lift arms are attached to. I had to replace both axle housings this summer
Either that is a set-up problem or a problem in design.

You know, all I did was point out the weak points in both designs and told the gentleman to pick which ever one that he like the best..........

Dargo · Dec 19, 2004

PineRidge, you're right, this isn't a hydo vs gear post. What confuses me is that tilling is one of the easiest tasks for the transmission. I mean, come on, have you ever had to put your tractor in 4X4 or even lock the rear diff while tilling? The PTO and engine are working hard, but the transmission is having an easy time!

My comment is based on fact for me (see Henro, a fact) that I couldn't till 8" deep in my hard soil with a gear tractor, but I could no problem with the exact same hp hydro tractor. At times, when the soil was extremely hard, I likely wasn't running 1/20th of a mile per hour. For the gear tractor, that meant constantly slipping the clutch even in the lowest gear.

Rather than get upset, I'd advise to buy whatever you want. If you can't till in low gear with your gear tractor, you'll just have to till at a more shallow depth and do it two or three times to get your depth. My opinion here is that you would be better to make two or three passes rather than slip your clutch. But, hey, if you're buying, slip away. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif Obviously, we all know that slipping your clutch will cause premature wear on a clutch that otherwise may last decades.

If someone is curious as to what two tractors I used with the same tiller on the exact same piece of ground, one was a JD 4600 (gear) and a Kubota L4310HSTC (hydro). Their PTO hp is nearly identical. I would not say at all that the Kubota was stronger or "better" than the JD at all. I will only say that in low range with the hydro, I could till all I wanted at any depth I wanted. I had to make two passes with the JD 4600. One pass at about 3", and the next at about 8". Both would do the job just fine, and I believe both tractors are quality units. Some may even have a valid arguement that it is likely better to make two passes anyway. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

I only take exception to the people who are dogmatic and and state that a hydro tractor is not as durable as a gear tractor. Before you get fired up, look up the definition of "dogmatic". It means to assert one's opinion as if it were fact. If we are to stay with facts only about the "gear vs. hydro for pulling a tiller", I think all comments would have to be qualified by whether or not the tractor in the quesion has enough power to turn the tiller. If your tractor has ample PTO power, I would say the "gear vs. hydro" part is a moot issue. I obviously had a tiller that was too large to turn at my desired depth with my gear tractor. The hydro tractor was able to compensate for also being underpowered for the required task by being able to go much slower. That is the fact in my post.

Okay Henro, who was it in Dragnet who always said "just the facts"? Was that Friday? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif The younger members here will be wondering "what is Dragnet". /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Evasive1 · Dec 19, 2004

Man those Branson/Century's are some good looking tough machines. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

I do not think there is an argument rather hydro is easier because obviously it is. What each individual person has to ask themself is the extra up front cost and loss of PTO horsepower that hydro has is worth it to them.

I was able to buy a 45 hp Century with heavy duty loader and 6' boxblade for $17,700. If I was to buy a hydro machine I would of had to drop down in horsepower to buy the same machine with the horsepower that i needed for the same price.

Hydro is great and shuttle shift is great. Personal preference of what you feel your own priorities are.

Life is good, be happy. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

MikePA · Dec 19, 2004

It means to assert one's opinion as if it were fact. 
A chronic problem on almost every Internet forum, including TBN. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

johnday · Dec 19, 2004

I think I'm gonna start Sunday dinner, anyone know a good recipe for scalloped potatos?

eee · Dec 19, 2004

Go back and read my earlier posts about skidding logs as far as working an engine hard.

The axle housings did not fail from a set up issue is was a combinations of wear and a somewhat inferior axle housing design.

I guarantee I use my tractor a lot harder than the average ( not everyone)person uses a tractor.

( You know, all I did was point out the weak points in both designs )

The hydro does not have a track record in my knowledge of failures. I could never put any of my gear tractors through the motions that I have put the hydro through and had them hold up.

JerryG · Dec 19, 2004

The axle housings did not fail from a set up issue is was a combinations of wear and a somewhat inferior axle housing design. 
I agree. I said that it was one or the other.

I guarantee I use my tractor a lot harder than the average ( not everyone)person uses a tractor. 
I agree here also. Most don't use the max. from their tractor.

The hydro does not have a track record in my knowledge of failures.
Very few, light duty hours prevent failures. No heavy use on the vast majority. That makes it hard to tell.

I could never put any of my gear tractors through the motions that I have put the hydro through and had them hold up. 
Why? It is all in learning to operate the equipment.

Moon · Dec 19, 2004

My wife's scallops are awesome. I think she got the recipe from her grandma, not sure.

ingredients:
sliced raw potatoes
stick of margarine
2 cans of Campbell's cheddar cheese soup
2 cans of Campbell's cream of mushroom soup
A few slices of onion (med size)
salt and pepper
1 to 2 cups of milk (depends on the pan size)

We use a corning type bowl /pan that is 10 x 7 and about 6 inches deep.
You need a pan deep enough for four layers (layers described below).

1. put a layer of potatoes enough to cover bottom of pan - 3 4 or 5 slices thick
add two big tablespoon fulls of each soup (about half of each can)
add two pats of butter, salt and pepper, and a few individual onion rings (broken out of the slices)

2. repeat step one 3 times more.

fill with milk about 1/4 to 1/3 up

cook at 375 1 to 1 1/2 hour / or until potatoes are tender when poked with fork.

(hint put flat sheet with edges under bowl/pan to avoid a mess in the oven)

ummm they are good.

Moon of Ohio

JerryG · Dec 19, 2004

A side form all of this gear vs hydro talk, either tractor should do just fine for what the poster wants to do. He just needs to get the one that "He" is happy with.

_RaT_ · Dec 19, 2004

DO you use yellow onions with that?

CMunger · Dec 19, 2004

Yes you are right IVT, or CVT, what ever brand you are dealing with are expensive, but I think it's because it is fairly new, I have heard on larger tractors JD want 8,000 to 9,000 more for the option, I think as more people come out with it the price will come inline. If you have a chance drive a new Ford 500, or Freestyle with their CVT, it's neat.
Chuck M.

MossRoad · Dec 19, 2004

To re-cap:

Hydro folks like the hydro.

Gear folks like the gear.

Some folks like both depending on the application.

Hydro allows zero to many MPH which means you can go as slow as it takes to get the job done in one pass.

Gears allow not zero to many MPH. Which means you can only go so slow without riding the clutch. You may have to make several passes at different depths or ride the clutch to get the speed you need to do it in one pass. One option that you should investigate is the mentioned "creeper gear" to see if it is available on the models you are considering. You will still have a minimum speed, though.

Gears have been proven to last a long time, with clutches seeming to be the only thing to wear out.

Hydros haven't been around nearly as long. There haven't been many reports of failures by folks that use them in commercial applications here on TBN.

My advice would be to test drive a gear tractor with a tiller in your conditions and then test drive a hydro tractor with a tiller in your conditions and see which one you like best. Make your decisions based upon your own observations and the recommendations of a dealer that you trust.

Moon · Dec 19, 2004

Yeah, I guess thats what their called. Regular onion as far as i know.

Moon of Ohio

bluecarpenter · Dec 19, 2004

/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gifI wasn't aiming to start anything. Just trying to get some info. guess it still seems a bit confusing to me cause I love the hydro but still wonder about the gear. My experience with hydro is my small 644 case loader. it has a hydro drive which seem to do ok most of the time. had a 14 hp engine in it. oil cooler and all. worked good till engine threw the piston rod. need to find a new motor and maybe a hydro pump. made back around 1950 I think. couldn't seem to get it to go in the winter though. that is why I asked about using hydro in the winter. I know that there is no comparison from that one to the tractors of today.
I won't be getting one till sometime in the spring so I have plenty of time to look around and ask you guys a lot questions. also have a lot of fun test driving different tractors. I'm looking at the 35 to 40 hp range.
What kind of HP lose can I expect with a hydro at the pto. would these HP still be enough to power a 5 or 6 ft tiller and a backhoe 7.5 ft depth? What kind of HP do I need for a post hole digger? The rest I will be pulling mostly. Course I guess If my brother-inlaws 8n will do it what ever I get will be more that do it. mark

eee · Dec 19, 2004

( Why? It is all in learning to operate the equipment )

Nope..you cannot go from reverse to forward on a geared tractor as fast as you can a hydro.

eee · Dec 19, 2004

( A side form all of this gear vs hydro TALK )

/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

RoyJackson · Dec 19, 2004

I guess the bottom line is, do you want to spend the extra $1500-$2500 on a hydro, knowing you can do the same job with a gear...and less maintenance?
Personally, I wouldn't pass up a good deal on a used tractor with a hydro, but I wouldn't pay the extra upfront for the hydro.

I've read all these comments about the hydro being an advantage over gears in tilling, but weren't folks tilling before the advent of HST's?

There's little doubt in my mind that my 790 will outlive me. I consider it the 90's and 00's version of that indestructable beast, the 8N. This is because it's over built and extremely simple...the key to a long productive life.

So..there ya go..

The LAST word on the subject??