Gauge wheels or tail wheel?

[Piston]

Good job, the final product looks like it turned out really nice! :thumbsup::thumbsup:

After you get some good hours of use you'll have to report back to let us know how you like it.

 

[Marveltone]

I like the simplicity in the way you stow the wheels up and away. Something I may have to try if I go ahead and do this to my rear blade. Over-all, a very good job. Let us know how it works.

Joe

 

[WagonRanch]

Work?!? But....but I might get it dirty! Or, worse yet, scratch the paint! Horrors!

Just kiddin'.

It doesn't quite work the way that I had hoped, at least not on a packed road or on the church parking lot, but it's not really a design fault as much as my own expectations, I guess.

On hard packed surfaces the wheels don't touch the ground if you want to cut much at all; instead the unit kind of "teeter-totters" with the blade being the fulcrum. If you lower the 3PH enough to put a lot of pressure (weight) on the blade then that lifts the wheels off the ground. If you then lower the wheels in this new position then the weight comes off the blade and it doesn't cut, it just changes the orientation of the cutting edge in relationship to the road.

In the church parking lot the kids have spun out enough to leave ruts in the center of the hard packed lot, but there is a lot of loose gravel around the periphery. The gauge wheels sink enough into the soft gravel to where you start moving a LOT of material, which is good in one way, but it leaves fairly big ridges on either side of the blade. It works, but it's pretty time consuming because eventually you have to end up with an even layer of gravel everywhere. Running the blade backwards (tractor still going forwards but the blade rotated 180) helps for the final passes.

Around buildings the wheels are a mixed blessing: it's usually already pretty flat so you don't have to do much and you can get it even flatter, but I was only able to pull material away from the buildings and that's not always what's needed. With the garage door open I could start partway inside the garage, but didn't want to hit the Lamborghini, so I could only go in so far without risking damage to my new blade, or incidentally to the Lambo.

On my gravel drive it only has a pretty thin top layer of salt and pepper round gravel, but isn't extremely flat. Here I did more damage than good as it would scalp the high spots and make the lows too deep and soft. We're talking a matter of an inch or two, not big ruts or noticeable hills and valleys. I suppose I could go ahead and flatten the whole drive and turnaround and then get a new top layer someday.

I really built it to use as a snow "plow" and I think it will work fine for that but I haven't had a chance to try it out yet. The weather is warming so I think it will be quite some time before I get to test it out on snow.

All that said the design itself works quite well for what it does: the wheels track fine, it's easy to adjust and seems quite sturdy. It's easy to flip the wheels up out of the way when you don't want them in the way. The wheels also help stabilize the unit when I'm connecting or disconnecting it.

WTMI? (Way Too Much Information?)

 

[Piston]

If there is a Lamborghini in your garage then you should have enough money to buy yourself a nice rear blade with hydraulic everything :laughing:

However, maybe you don't have enough money to buy a new blade BECAUSE there is a Lamborghini in your garage

Would adding more weight to the gauge wheels themselves help with the 'teeter tottering' and allow the blade to dig in more when you fully lower the 3 pt hitch?

 

[WagonRanch]

Piston,

The Lamborghini was a gift, so it doesn't really help one way or the other financially, besides it's a '65 so it's a money pit in and of itself.

The weight of the wheels does help when they are off the ground if you are in cutting mode.

I'm happy, overall, with the tool, but I'm still learning about how to fine tune it.

 

[mjncad]

No doubt Cali won't let you license and drive the '65 Lambo anyway as it would be considered a "Gross Polluting Vehicle" in Nancy Pe-lousy's socialist paradise in the making.

 

[MJPetersen]

On hard packed surfaces the wheels don't touch the ground if you want to cut much at all; instead the unit kind of "teeter-totters" with the blade being the fulcrum. If you lower the 3PH enough to put a lot of pressure (weight) on the blade then that lifts the wheels off the ground. If you then lower the wheels in this new position then the weight comes off the blade and it doesn't cut, it just changes the orientation of the cutting edge in relationship to the road.

If I am remembering correctly part of your design was that you used a chain for the top link in order to allow free movement. In my experience I like having a hard top link as I believe that this gives the best "grader" type action. I will try to explain. In a road grader the frame is solid and the adjustment is only to the positioning of the blade itself. Since the blade is approximately half way between the wheels the bumps and dips are halved. The rigid top link duplicates this action (within limitations). It does require adjusting of the gauge wheels more. (This is where hydraulic would help a lot.)

This is what I do. In hard material you need to loosen it up somehow--either with a different tool or with more weight to cut the hard material some. Work on getting the high spots cut off to create your loose material. In soft material you with a lot of hills and valleys you can set the wheels so that on hard level ground the blade is a few inches off the ground with the blade lowered and in "float position" on the 3 pt control. Go over all the ground in different directions with this setting until you are no longer cutting high spots and filling low. Put the 3 point in float so that the blade is being "carried by the wheels and the tractor. On the hard and level surface again adjust the wheels so that the blade in float position just clears the ground and go over the surface again. If it is cutting too much it is because the wheels are sinking into the soft material and you can compensate by lowering the wheels a bit (raising the blade) by a half turn on the wheel link. This requires some fine tuning, but you will zero in on a setting which will give you a very even surface.

That is what I do and it seems to work for me.

Mike

 

[WagonRanch]

MJHPeterson, yes, this is pretty much what I do now. I only use the chain when it comes time to finish grade, but with the fixed top link I'm able to get better control over the cutting edge and use the rigidity to do the basic shaping (leveling). I was surprised to find how sensitive the tool is to wheel height, but it's not a really a problem, just a discovery.

Thanks so much for your input!

RE: Lamborghini. Road? License? My Lamborghini is an R-360 tractor. 60hp, 3 cylinder, air cooled.

 

[teg]

...My Lamborghini is an R-360 tractor. 60hp, 3 cylinder, air cooled.

THAT's funny... I was thinking the same. What a heck of a Gift!!!:laughing:

(just stock photos below from google - by chance, do you have photos of your Lamborghini?)

 

[WagonRanch]

teg, yeah, what fun are cars? You can't add attachments, only one or two hydraulic systems, they look silly with FELs.....

Awaiting restoration.

 

[2manyrocks]

It doesn't quite work the way that I had hoped, at least not on a packed road or on the church parking lot, but it's not really a design fault as much as my own expectations, I guess.

On hard packed surfaces the wheels don't touch the ground if you want to cut much at all; instead the unit kind of "teeter-totters" with the blade being the fulcrum. If you lower the 3PH enough to put a lot of pressure (weight) on the blade then that lifts the wheels off the ground. If you then lower the wheels in this new position then the weight comes off the blade and it doesn't cut, it just changes the orientation of the cutting edge in relationship to the road.

In the church parking lot the kids have spun out enough to leave ruts in the center of the hard packed lot, but there is a lot of loose gravel around the periphery. The gauge wheels sink enough into the soft gravel to where you start moving a LOT of material, which is good in one way, but it leaves fairly big ridges on either side of the blade. It works, but it's pretty time consuming because eventually you have to end up with an even layer of gravel everywhere. Running the blade backwards (tractor still going forwards but the blade rotated 180) helps for the final passes.

Around buildings the wheels are a mixed blessing: it's usually already pretty flat so you don't have to do much and you can get it even flatter, but I was only able to pull material away from the buildings and that's not always what's needed. With the garage door open I could start partway inside the garage, but didn't want to hit the Lamborghini, so I could only go in so far without risking damage to my new blade, or incidentally to the Lambo.

On my gravel drive it only has a pretty thin top layer of salt and pepper round gravel, but isn't extremely flat. Here I did more damage than good as it would scalp the high spots and make the lows too deep and soft. We're talking a matter of an inch or two, not big ruts or noticeable hills and valleys. I suppose I could go ahead and flatten the whole drive and turnaround and then get a new top layer someday.

Let me preface this by saying I have a box blade and I have a rear blade with a different gauge wheel design. Your design is unique to my knowledge. At least, I can't think of one like it on TBN.

Regarding your first issue of evening out gravel in the church parking lot, I think this is just inherent to a rear blade. In my experience, a box blade is just more efficient at containing gravel and then getting it evenly spread.

Regarding your second issue of scalping high spots, my theory is that center mounted gauge wheels would be more likely to allow the blade to dig in on either side than wheels mounted on each side of the blade. And again, in my experience, a box blade is still easier to control and avoid scalping because the sides of the box act like runners compared to the relative knife edge effect of a rear blade.

Where the rear blade has its advantage is being able to tilt the blade to achieve a crown on a road or in moving snow off the road.

Even though I built rear gauge wheels for my rear blade after having seen it discussed on TBN, honestly, it sits and I use my box blade instead.

 

[WagonRanch]

2manyrocks: I also have a box blade and use it as well. I thought about building brackets so I could swap the gauge wheels between the rake, box blade and rear blade, but I think just the rake would benefit much from the wheels. As you state, moving large quantities of material is done by the BB, then the rear blade and wheels will allow you fine tune. In virgin soil out in the forest I use the BB to dig, loosen and get a general shape, then use the RB to get the slope for the crown as well as forming gutters. Now I'm hoping I can get that flatter surface with the wheels so I don't get as much of the gentle roller coaster shape from the tractor and blade hobby horsing.

Thanks for your suggestions and advice.

Gotta have tools!

 

[2manyrocks]

You are welcome, and I hope my comments are of some help to you.

I also have a rake, and after being disappointed with the results of the gauge wheels on my rear blade, I just use the rake as it is.

I believe much fine tuning can be done with the box blade if the linkage adjustments and tilt of blade are set carefully. I check my tractor tire pressures and then take my tractor to a nearby concrete pad that I know is level. That's where I make my adjustments so I know I have the box blade adjusted evenly from side to side and then it's only a matter of adjusting the tilt for the proper bite.

 

[WagonRanch]

2manyrocks, yes, your suggestions are welcome and helpful. I usually have one rig or another in the garage, but I do try and set up on as level of spot as I can. Interesting that you don't find the wheels all that useful; the consensus on this forum seems to be that they are nearly indispensable. It will be pretty easy to add a bracket to the rake so I'll probably at least try it.

I have found that I can tilt the BB back a lot so that it rests only on the very back and then it's kind of like using a butter knife; more of wiping motion without any cutting at all.

I'm learning!

 

[2manyrocks]

I had been grading the driveway with a box blade for close to 20 years before I had even heard of putting gauge wheels on a rear blade here on TBN. So I already formed habits (good or bad) that I'm probably not even concious of at this point.

I'm posting a picture of my wheel design just in case there's something about my design that makes for less than desired results.

Having the wheels spread apart requries that I be able to set the wheels back from the blade in order for it to fully pivot. That's different from your design where the wheels are more centered. Having the wheels set far apart on mine also makes it more difficult to do ditch work without removing the whole assembly.

I will also say I don't care for the wheels I used. They were cheap and what I could find at the time. Sometimes I suspect that a larger diameter wheel would be an improvement in ability to grade smoothly. I also think that a slanted mount instead of a vertical mount would help the wheels track more evenly.

Any other observations from others are welcome as they might help someone else who is considering building some kind of gauge wheels for themselves.

 

[WagonRanch]

2manyrocks,

Gee it looks like your blade will pivot 360...almost! I suppose you could lengthen the square tubing that runs back....but probably not worth it. I used 8" cast iron wheels from Amazon of all places: $44 delivered for the pair. I wish I could have found wider ones, but the prices go waaay up for 4" wide wheels. I used 45* (degrees) of caster and it's not too much as far as I can tell. Most designs call for 30* or so, but I wanted them to track and not shimmy all over the place.

I got my rear blade to dress the gutters mostly, but also to run the loose gravel at the edges of the road back towards the center and maintain a crown. It does a pretty good job of those tasks without the wheels. The gauge wheels almost seem like a specialty tool at this point; really only useful after the bulk of the work has been done and then only to get that final grade to be as smooth as possible without the little hills and dips that develop without them.

I'm glad I built them, and I'll use them occasionally. I'm glad that they are easy to store in the up position and can also be removed easily and quickly.

 

[gerard]

Piston,

The Lamborghini was a gift, so it doesn't really help one way or the other financially, besides it's a '65 so it's a money pit in and of itself.

The weight of the wheels does help when they are off the ground if you are in cutting mode.

I'm happy, overall, with the tool, but I'm still learning about how to fine tune it.

You may have figured out by now that the more you lengthen the top link the more aggresssive the blade will dig and the shorter it is the less it will dig.

 

[WagonRanch]

Gerard: thanks. I do use the top link like this. I appreciate your input.

 

[Oldmopar]

When I need guage wheels for something I try and find wheels from a combine pickup header. In my area you can find used ones pretty cheep, they are designed for alot of weight and harsh use. Most of the farmers in my area don't use pickup headers anymore, everyone uses straight headers now. Just an idea I thought I'd throw out.

 

[WagonRanch]

Oldmopar; good idea if that kind of machinery is available in your neck of the woods. Unfortunately I live in timber country (well it's not unfortunate at all...) and that old machinery just doesn't exist.