Future of HVAC and industry supply issues.

[Sigarms]

We are 30 days net payment in full with our HVAC company and then interest starts accruing.

I sincerely hope John had a succession plan for his company. If you're a commercial account who pays net 30, that is an account you stay on top of IMO, do good work and stand behind it, and you don't lose it.

Union shops are however non existent in NC in the HVAC industry here.

Customer service is the same for any business. What people forget sometimes is that a business relationship is a two way street.

I've always paid my bills and expect the same in return. Honestly I forgot about that in the medical profession. I do know a dentist, a good man who goes to our church who does a lot of free work in his dental clinics. He explained to me that he hates dealing with insurance. Told me a lot about something I don't generally think about.

What I can tell you is if you're a good HVAC company, you generally don't want to deal with home warranty companies. Guess it may be along the same lines where a 3rd party is paying for your work.

 

[ultrarunner]

John 51 and heart attack in the company truck… company is no more… his son was learning the trade but at 22 was not in the position to carry on… the other 3 kids in college

Moral of the story is one never knows if today is your last…

 

[milkman636]

Although the coils have never been chemically cleaned…

But Salt water is within sight and aluminum and saltwater environment not good…

Coil leak at the copper 180 has been the source of all refrigerant leakage.

70k quote this week to replace coils with refrigerant recovery, leak check, etc and to put back operational…

January 2020 it was 65k to replace all of it… coils, compressors, 4 fan motors, relays, etc.

That option no longer exists due to R22 refrigerant system…

Contingency is to rent a trailer with standby air at 4K per week not counting staging.

33 years on the job has been a good run for me so time will tell.

That salt corrosion looks like what careless pressure washing and coil cleaner will do. I'm surrounded by great lakes and the only salt we get is winter road salt eating at our cars, we need people for our coils to look like that. On the plus side the Carlyle 06 compressors pictured on those units are very reliable and field repairable. I've serviced some of those in 50 year-old units still pumping R12. If the rest of the galvanized structure is all good, coil replacements may be a good option.

 

[milkman636]

John 51 and heart attack in the company truck… company is no more… his son was learning the trade but at 22 was not in the position to carry on… the other 3 kids in college

Moral of the story is one never knows if today is your last…

That's sad. It's tough to hear about a guy that builds things up for years and doesn't get to see them through.

 

[cbg8670]

30 years mostly commercial. From what iv seen ALL manufacturers have let quality slide. Stay with the bigger names as they are a little better. Been having more lead time on carrier parts but others have long parts wait as well. AAON is another name to check on

 

[arto98607]

Did not know the man or his business, but at 50 - 51 perhaps he was so busy building his business there was not much time or energy to pay much attention to his health.

Sad story, may he rest in peace.

 

[kenmac]

From looking at those coils, someone needs a maintenance program ! Those coils that have appeared to have been cut out must have been for a leak repair at some point . But the condenser coil being that dirty isn't good for compressors. It's a lot of work changing out those roof top units. New rood curbs, cranes, or helicopters .It's been a while, but I bet crane rental prices have gone up quite a bit !

Hey Joe, when you going to get out the rat race ? LOL
Life is great on the other side ! LOL

 

[ultrarunner]

Just about anything needs crane service…

It will be interesting to see what happens as the 30 year runs down…

Years ago the CFO decided to long term lease and not execute the purchase option.

Thinking is different when property is owned vs NNN lease.

Part of the difference is everyone from 30 years ago is now long gone… well almost everyone if you count me.

Lead times can be unbelievably long and it is hard to pin down pricing.

Maybe it’s the same as waiting for a new tractor ordered more than a year ago and the price increases several times after you put down deposit and placed order.

 

[milkman636]

From looking at those coils, someone needs a maintenance program ! Those coils that have appeared to have been cut out must have been for a leak repair at some point . But the condenser coil being that dirty isn't good for compressors. It's a lot of work changing out those roof top units. New rood curbs, cranes, or helicopters .It's been a while, but I bet crane rental prices have gone up quite a bit !

Hey Joe, when you going to get out the rat race ? LOL
Life is great on the other side ! LOL

Realistically, those types of units came out of the factory with a 15-20 year anticipated life cycle. They’ve made it 10 years beyond, so maintenance deficiencies should be off the table in this discussion.

There are probably some tax incentives and utility rebates available for switching to heat pumps or other technologies. Those may help to offset some of capital cost and strengthen the argument for replacement.

I was involved with a job here in Michigan that got utility rebates, federal DOE grant money, and tax incentives from the state and federal governments. Maybe there’s even some build back better money out there for your facility? Has anyone in the organizations researched applicable rebates and incentives?

 

[ultrarunner]

PGE had a good incentive for upgrades but program suspended with utility due to lawsuits with California fires… same with parking lot lighting retrofit program.

Interesting times.

I explained to the Board that Carrier doesn’t owe us anything as these units have been in service 24/7 going on 28 years… some are 100% outside air.