ultratunner, first you were lucky to have a relationship with the owner of a HVAC company who actually stayed in the field. Most guys who are good at what they do end up becoming business owners and have a hard time finding the quality of help that the owner did to actually build his business in the first place, and they get stuck behind a desk running their business never bing in the field anymore. I would try and find the same business model. I have a good friend like the guy you worked with. His company has 50 guys and the owner learned that from time to time he has to spend time in the office, but he has people he trusts to run things in the office and you'll find him in the field. Ironically enough a good portion of his business is with the local hospitals and that's who he caters to.
Guys, I'm not an expert, I only work with people who I consider experts, but thanks for the pressure
Engineered commercial units along with commercial controls is not my "speciality" and I'll always use someone smarter than myself if in that position. HVAC is a wide field and I've learned a long time ago no one is a expert generally in all the various categories and applications of equipment out there. There are a few naturals out there, but I'm not one of them.
I learned a long time ago that engineered schedules created by engineers may not have a clue (the engineer) as to what they are really "picking" if they require particular units. Generally if you can bypass a engineer, I would do so.
Also, particularly for hospitals, some manufacturers have "applied divisions" that create such "one and done" oddball equipment I wouldn't touch with a 10' pole. Assuming this is not the case.
Right now if you can't find a commercial 3 phase unit sitting on the ground ready for a sale somewhere, you can easily be looking at a 8 month lead time.
Biggest questions
1 - Why are all 18 RTU's being changed out? Due to age and expected failure?
2 - Timeframe for all 18 RTU's to be replaced?
3 - "Triage" all 18 units as to what looks like needs to be replaced per issues with each unit.
4 - Voltage on all 18 RTU's?
5 - Tonnages on all RTU's
6 - Are you going with field installed options or factory installed options? (in our market, most units we can find are 230V 3 phase, medium heat and meditum static on gas packs). That said, recently someone had a 460V in stock in a 10 ton, but no 230V in stock (most likley sold out).
I'm afraid to even ask what the codes are in that neck of the woods. In my area, an economizer is required by code over 6 ton, but it's been known from time to time for guys to install motorized two position dampers for required fresh air because people inspecting the job (if it's inspected) assume it's an economizer, and it can save the end user a couple of grand for the economizer only.
Generally for time and money and availability, factory installed options are bypassed for inventory.
Whoever is going to work with you on changing out the options will have some work on their end trying to acquire the equipment in the project timeline needed for each RTU. If you expect someone to hold commercial 3 phase equipment for any amount of time, you're most likely dreaming. That said, if you can work out a timeframe, some people do take deposits on equipment coming in to hold them. We just got in 4 ton 3 phase split outdoor units, and two were going straight to jobs that were on hold waiting for the equipment to come in. Same thing for a 10 and 15 ton heat pump.
You do have some advantages with Carrier...
Carrier, Bryant, Tempstar, Heil, Comfortmaker, Day & Night, Aircoaire is pretty much the same equipment owned and produced by Carrier, and at this point in time, using those choices as an option to replace a Carrier unit, I've never had to use a curb adaptor (which again could save you thousands per unit). That said, generally when you get over the 15 to 20 ton range ton, Carrier gets more particular as to what they put the Carrier name to help control the "differences" in the line. The key is finding places that sell this equipment that stock commercial and have it in their yard.
Generally you'll find the price point between commercial gas packs and heat pumps to be in the same ball park price wise (perhaps slightly higher for heat pump because of the added cost of field installed strip heaters). But then you need to consider the PITA factor that may be involved given what you have to work with (particularly electrical for heat pumps if going from gas/electric), assuming everything is on a roof sitting on a curb. Generally the field installed accessories are broken down by tonnage, so a field installed economizer is the same part number that is used between a gas pack or heat pump or straight AC unit if it's the same tonnage.
Whoever is looking for the equipment should look under any rock locally to see if any of those units can be found on the ground, but we go back to time frame per RTU and the game plan for changing everything out.
Carrier dominated the market in commercial rooftops in the 80's and 90's, and I know for a fact that Daikin (AKA Goodman), York and I believe even Lennox produces commercial units that will replace a Carrier footprint unit with like connections so retrofitting the Carrier with another brand requires less labor, which could save money
Carrier just had a major price increase on their commercial line the first quarter of this year. The older units (if they can be found) are substantially less than the newer units. I always find it ironic that when one manufacturer has a price increase, it's generally industry wide.
As for York (JCI products) on the commercial side, I won't lie, not my first pick. That said, if they were tenant installed, I'd wonder about the practices used when retrofitting.
When we travel through SF next month I would love to be on the roof looking at what you have if given the opportunity (I'd ask just to see how they do things out there). However this will be the first vacation in my entire life that the unwritten rule from my wife is no more than 2 phones early in the morning and no more two phone calls late at night will be allowed, not to exceed 5 minutes each LOL No work laptop allowed on this trip and I agreed LOL First family vacation in 4 years due to my dad living with us, and with having lost my father and a son last year, I've already told my boss that phone calls and emails will be minimal on my end when I'm off. So, I have no doubt that if I told my wife I was going to stop and look at some HVAC equipment when we're out there, I wouldn't be coming back home with her and the boy.
The thing about HVAC guys who really love their work is no matter where they are at, they are always checking out the equipment and it's location and duct/piping runs. Each area of the US is different which makes it interesting if you travel (you don't find many swamp coolers on the roofs of residential homes on the east coast). My wife will always find my head looking up at ductwork and counting the runs if we're at a restaurant and sometimes she gets tired of it.
This isn't a knock against California, but I can assure you that the guys who actually build HVAC equipment really aren't fond of the state of California. For better or worse, the country by federal guidelines over time adopt what California does, and because it has so much marketshare, manufacturers are forced to meet California's requirements. Any time your visiting a manufacturer and you mention California, you can almost hear the groans in the room.
