Future of HVAC and industry supply issues.

[Sigarms]

Oil furnaces? Those are an east coast thing. I’ve never heard of an oil furnace anywhere in the western U.S. Most people who live outside of natural gas service areas heat with either wood, propane, or electric.

Why do you think California is such an important market for HVAC manufacturers

An oil fired package unit use to be made as well also they were stopped for various reasons LOL.

Over 80% of all oil heating is used in the North East.

Although oil furnaces days may be numbered in the long term, oil hydronic heating will last longer.

Use to spend a lot of time out west around Idaho in my youth. My feeling was the west was going to be screwed over like the East Coast, but at least everyone on the east coast was screwed over so much they didn't even know it (due to population growth).

Another news flash for everyone...natural gas for heating homes are numbered just like oil furnaces, but they'll just be around longer.

End of the day, depending on the area you live in per the US, home construction is different per how heating and cooling systems are designed for the home for various reasons.

 

[jyoutz]

Outlaws… I’m in cahoots with scoflaws.

Funny thing is the Fire Chief refuses to enforce saying wild-land open space fuel reduction is number one and OPD doesn’t respond to property crimes so just who would enforce remains to be seen.

Still legal to run a gas powered chain saw so go figure.

I remember automotive refrigerant at 99 cents a can at the auto parts store and now look at the cost and restrictions.

Who needs the stock market when we could have stocked up?

I would happily repurchase my HVAC package units from the 1990’s because the majority of the carrier gas packs are still in service everyday in 2023…

There are plenty of backwoods and rural areas in CA where it’s doubtful that anyone would enforce a gas power equipment ban. It’s just simply not going to happen in those areas.

 

[Sigarms]

HVAC manufacturer that I worked with had the attitude that they couldn't tell which units would end up in California so they made all of them to comply with California rules.

Not really. They (HVAC manufacturers) would make speciffic units that are "California rated", but the manufacturers felt that the feds looked at California as to what they were doing and would become federal law down the road in time.

Low nox gas furnaces are a prime example over the last couple of years. 80% gas furnaces are next up on the list to go away. The issue is there are applications for install where an 80% would work better vs a 95% plus, but those advantages were generally with older homes.

Better or worse, new refrigerants were used in California as "experiements" that weren't used anywhere else in the US a couple years ago.

Because California is so big land wise and they have the total population per state, HVAC manufacturers aren't stupid.

I can assure you HVAC manufacturers aren't happy about it (per personal conversations), but California is a nessisary evil if those manufacturers want market share.

 

[Sigarms]

There are plenty of backwoods and rural areas in CA where it’s doubtful that anyone would enforce a gas power equipment ban. It’s just simply not going to happen in those areas.

Ironcially, on our visit to California in August this year, in a round about way with conversations with local people in a very rural county, the same can be said for other laws.

Driving back to the Sacramento airport, I saw a couple of "The state of Jefferson" signs. Now after being out there and looking the "state of Jefferson" online because I had no clue what it was in reference to, no different than the people in Carthage or Watertown NY feel about Albany and NYC

 

[Camofurever1]

HVAC manufacturer that I worked with had the attitude that they couldn't tell which units would end up in California so they made all of them to comply with California rules.

One example of the California tag wagging the USA dog is the prop. 65 warning that this product may cause cancer or reproductive harm that manufacturers slap on everything everywhere to the point that it is just an expense to the consumer that no one heeds anywhere. California could mandate a happy face sticker on every product and companies would just raise prices to slap them on.

But I agree with Sigarms that I wish manufacturers would just stop selling in California and say, if you want us to comply with this, the price to you in California to make this product comply with your rule is now much, much higher because we're not allocating the cost of compliance to every buyer of our products in the USA.

The paper the "Prop 65" warning" is printed on and the toner ink used to populate the page with, in Cali, will cause them cancer. Sometimes, just living your life doing what you want to do is much more important than insuring that people are subjected to "Fear ****" 24/7 in everything they see and do. Yeah, I know drinking water from a plastic bottle will probably give me cancer sometime down the line, but I am thirsty right now and a bottle of cold water is quenching my thirst. We are all going to die of something.

 

[ultrarunner]

Oil furnaces? Those are an east coast thing. I’ve never heard of an oil furnace anywhere in the western U.S. Most people who live outside of natural gas service areas heat with either wood, propane, or electric.

Some of the older homes in rural WA I looked at had oil furnaces or maybe the furnace had been replaced but the old tank was still there.

 

[jyoutz]

Some of the older homes in rural WA I looked at had oil furnaces or maybe the furnace had been replaced but the old tank was still there.

Interesting. I’ve never seen one in the Rocky Mountain west.

 

[jyoutz]

The paper the "Prop 65" warning" is printed on and the toner ink used to populate the page with, in Cali, will cause them cancer. Sometimes, just living your life doing what you want to do is much more important than insuring that people are subjected to "Fear ****" 24/7 in everything they see and do. Yeah, I know drinking water from a plastic bottle will probably give me cancer sometime down the line, but I am thirsty right now and a bottle of cold water is quenching my thirst. We are all going to die of something.

I bought a Case pocket knife. It had that known to case cancer by the state of California label inside the box.

 

[milkman636]

Some of the older homes in rural WA I looked at had oil furnaces or maybe the furnace had been replaced but the old tank was still there.

Our home was built in Michigan in 1964 with an oil fired hydronic boiler for heating. Some time in the mid-80s the home was added onto and a gas boiler was installed. In 2012 I pulled the gas boiler and installed a smaller, direct vent unit on an exterior basement wall. The old oil line was still there and full of 30 year old fuel oil when I demoed everything.

The old tank was at least removed from the house. It was taken all the way past the back yard and deposited in the edge of the woods. It still had an oily slurry in the bottom of it too.

The odors, filters, orrifices, and burner maintenance are something that needed to go by the wayside. There are better ways to heat a house. Even my grandparents’ coal stove seems like a better option to me.