Tires Front tires plowing the ground

   / Front tires plowing the ground #41  
One more thing to think about. Check the load rating on the tires. Tri-rib are great for turning on loose plowed soil, but they usually have low weight bearing capacity.

Probably 1700-2000# each. Figure 3/4 of that is used up with the tractor and empty FEL. That means you are over stressing the tires when you get a full bucket.


jb
 
   / Front tires plowing the ground
  • Thread Starter
#42  
john_bud said:
One more thing to think about. Check the load rating on the tires. Tri-rib are great for turning on loose plowed soil, but they usually have low weight bearing capacity.

Probably 1700-2000# each. Figure 3/4 of that is used up with the tractor and empty FEL. That means you are over stressing the tires when you get a full bucket.

over stressing = blowout?

blowout = bad with a load in FEL = rollover?

Is this a safety issue with heavy loads on the FEL? Our round bales are likely less than 2,000 lbs, and I'd always have a bale on the 3ph, so it seems like I'm OK there. But I wouldn't want to push it when I do get into heavier stuff. I'll check the tires when I'm back out there after Tgiving.
 
   / Front tires plowing the ground #43  
My B-I-L has been running tri-ribs on the JD he uses for moving bales for as long as I've known him. Never had a blow out.
 
   / Front tires plowing the ground #44  
Spiveyman said:
As a die hard NASCAR fan I would feel remis if I didn't mention that two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do. :D By the way, there are two road courses. There's a time for turning right too.

Well I still can't add mush to the Ackerman thing, but I did recall on large trucks with straight front axles they put wedges under the leaf to tilt the axle forward. Supposed to give the big trucks a sharper turning radius.
 
   / Front tires plowing the ground #45  
The reason I simply suggested adding toe-out to the front end is that I didn't want to confuse things by getting technical with ackerman & caster talk.

BTW, if you want to learn about basic steering & suspension theory, read this link. Though it deal specifically with drag race front suspension theory, it does explain the basics very well.
 
   / Front tires plowing the ground #46  
N80 said:
My B-I-L has been running tri-ribs on the JD he uses for moving bales for as long as I've known him. Never had a blow out.


I have tri-ribs on a loader tractor too. The load rating on them is 1700# or so. They squat a lot when lifting a bucket full as the load on them is greater than the amount in the bucket. Remember how the back end gets light when you lift a load? That is weight transfer to the front axle. The tractor with loader and hoe with filled tires is about 9000#. Lift capacity is 3000#. I figure that the front end of the tractor can weigh as much as 8-9000# when the bucket is full. I know that before filling the tires, the back was so light it wouldn't go up a slight hill backwards. And that's with a 3000# hoe on it.

The tires won't (often) blow out. Don't worry about that. They may squat so much that the side walls get cut or the tires may come off the rims if you turn sharp and hit an obstruction. It's smart to match the tire to the load.

(Not that I am doing that! But, the tires were new on the tractor and the tire place wouldn't give me anything for them in trade, so use them I will)
 
   / Front tires plowing the ground
  • Thread Starter
#47  
Wow, never thought I'd learn so much about tires with one simple question. My hope was to make sure that I wasn't doing something plain ole' stupid with those tires. I can see the good and the bad with them, but it sounds like in the end they are a decent tire, and if I need the traction on a hill side, I'll be glad that I have them.

I never paid that much attention to the tires. I was asking my uncle about his tires, here they are:


Said he'd never run anything but tri-ribs for the reason I mentioned. When he needs them, he needs them, and he can put up with some ruts here and there for knowing that he'll have traction on those hills.

Everything else seems to check out, diff lock is not stuck, toe seems pretty daggone close. I think the key is for me to take it easy. I tend to drive everything like a video game. :D
 
   / Front tires plowing the ground #48  
Spiveyman said:
Everything else seems to check out, diff lock is not stuck, toe seems pretty daggone close. I think the key is for me to take it easy. I tend to drive everything like a video game. :D


Measure the toe, don't just look at it. Just don't measure it after backing up, you always want to drive it forward, stop, measure toe. If it's toed-in, you can try adjusting it toe-out a little (1/4"-1/2"). This may help (my feeling is that it will) & shouldn't affect off-road driving.
 
   / Front tires plowing the ground #49  
dbdartman said:
Measure the toe, don't just look at it. Just don't measure it after backing up, you always want to drive it forward, stop, measure toe. If it's toed-in, you can try adjusting it toe-out a little (1/4"-1/2"). This may help (my feeling is that it will) & shouldn't affect off-road driving.
Yes, toe out will ensure that the turn angle of the wheel on the inside of the turn is greater and thereby lessen the fronts pushing or pulling against each other when you are turning.
larry​
 
   / Front tires plowing the ground #50  
My tractor with the tri rib tires had a about 1/4 inch of toe out. It would dart for the ditches like a scared rabbit on the road. A real pucker maker for sure. Very twitchy to drive, a real white knuckler.

I went to 1/4" toe in and it's a lot better.

I wouldn't go to toe out if you are going to road the tractor anywhere.

jb
 
   / Front tires plowing the ground #51  
john_bud said:
My tractor with the tri rib tires had a about 1/4 inch of toe out. It would dart for the ditches like a scared rabbit on the road. jb
So.....Youre saying it turned exceedingly well?
 
   / Front tires plowing the ground #52  
SPYDERLK said:
So.....Youre saying it turned exceedingly well?


Well, it turned exceedingly fast and unexpectedly. If you would hit a bump or a dip on one side, it would want to dart in that direction. It was a white knuckle ride the whole way there and back! Didn't like that at all.

jb
 
   / Front tires plowing the ground #53  
SPYDERLK said:
Yes, toe out will ensure that the turn angle of the wheel on the inside of the turn is greater and thereby lessen the fronts pushing or pulling against each other when you are turning.
larry​

But this still isn't going to keep an 8000# tractor with 3 rib tires from cutting up the yard if turning to sharp or going fast. :D
 
   / Front tires plowing the ground #54  
Spiveyman,

Your tractor is fine. Your tires are fine. Turn a little more slowly when turning in the front yard or barn lot if the scuffs bother you.

A just be glad you're not so cheap that you have to resort to using old jeep tires:

22347DSC1696-med.jpg
 
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   / Front tires plowing the ground #55  
N80 said:
Spiveyman,


A just be glad you're not so cheap that you have to resort to using old jeep tires:

QUOTE]

:D:D But they'll do less damage!! :d
 
   / Front tires plowing the ground #56  
RobJ said:
:D:D But they'll do less damage!! :d

Yep, but he was more concerned about damage to his wallet!:D You can't see it in the picture but I'm pretty sure the other one is an old car tire!
 
   / Front tires plowing the ground
  • Thread Starter
#57  
Ha! That's great. Toe in Vs. toe out... wow, never thought there'd be that much over my little "messing up the field" question, but cool none-the-less.

I don't plan to take the tractor on the road on any regular basis, but just the same, my papaw has a farm 2.5 miles down the road. He's 81. Besides borrowing his post hole digger or some other implement, there may be a day in the future where he could use a hand. I wouldn't want to kiss a tree on the way to his place.

Seems like straight way and slow 'er down is the best bet for me. We've been getting tons of rain (finally) so these days it wouldn't matter if I had monster truck tires on that thing I'd be tearing up the grass. Such is life. In the mush of soft muddy clay, that tri rib deal does get my tractor turning, along with the steering brakes.

Oh, and no worries on the old jeep tires. I'm tight, but not THAT tight! :)
 
   / Front tires plowing the ground #58  
If you ever have the opportunity, take your tractor out for a short drive on a sheet of ice. (We get a couple or three ice storms of greater or lesser degree each winter here on the average) You'll get a better picture of it's inherent handling characteristics. Just about everey tractor I've ever been on, even MFWD's, will tend to want to go straight (to some degree), even with steering input. Some more pronounced than others. They'll turn, but you'll notice the front end wanting to wash or push the front wheels. Same logic applies to a tractor in the dirt/on grass, only much less obvious.

That's why tractors commonly use ribbed tires. Those ribbed tires work in much the same manner as a rudder on a ship. If they WEREN'T digging in a bit, the front end would wash quite a bit more noticabley.

Sharp turns will amplify the effect. To minimize the resulting damage to turf, make more gradual, sweeping turns, learn to apply a very light touch to steering brakes, lower speeds, and make certain the front end is ballasted properly. And then, you know what? You'll still slide a wheel every now and then.

And on a final note. Yesterday, when I stopped at a dealer to pick up a few parts I ordered, I ran into the mechanic from the golf club where I play frequently. While waiting our turn, we got into a discussion about a Kubota mowing tractor they have. He mentioned how difficult it was to "square" the track vs wheel base because of the difficulty getting the front end wide enough. He said they always try to get a tractor almost as wide as it is long, or relatively close to minimize wheels scuffing as the turn. Next year when you're watching the Ryder Cup on TV, take a look at the grass and see what sort of job he did! ('08 Ryder Cup @ Valhalla Golf Club)
 
   / Front tires plowing the ground
  • Thread Starter
#59  
I can't imagine that I'd want to take that thing on a sheet of ice in central KY. :eek: It just doesn't get that cold around here any more. But I get your point.

Through all of this discussion I've learned a ton about my tractor and these tires. This summer it wasn't much of a deal on the concrete soil. Now that the rains have come and my field are both over grazed and wet, it's a muddy mess many places. Those tri rib deals do tear up the ground even more, but I found out today how important that grab is in the front end. There were several times today moving round bales where a tire with less traction would have just pushed in a straight line. I could really see the benefit of that center rib digging in to turn my tractor.

I didn't really think to get a picture of the tracs, but noticed this shot when I was going through my pictures tonight. You can see what I'm talking about here. This is on the top of a ridge, so it's not too soft here.


Granted that's also a pretty tight turn, but I was trying to maneuver with the hay and such.
 
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