Found a coyote, I think

/ Found a coyote, I think #42  
Probably different thinking than most on this site, but I actually like seeing coyotes in the wild. I've got a pack around my house and I'm fine with them. Sometimes when they're yipping nearby I enjoy yipping back and hearing them answer. I recognize that they are predators, so I keep my small dog on a close leash and its never out alone EVER. I'm happy with the balance, they keep the rodents in check, keep the number of turkeys down and have a very healthy fear of people (I almost never see them except on camera). The thing I like best is this pack keeps others away and keeps a nice balance of just a few coyotes around. I grew up around farms and understand the threat bigger packs pose to livestock and have even been surrounded by them in the woods in the dark... so I've got a healthy respect for them, but don't necessarily believe in the 'shoot on sight' mentality that many others have.
 
/ Found a coyote, I think #43  
Raspy, I'm glad that it's you going through the experience. Ive been enjoying watching the story unfold, and I thank you for the timely updates. I wouldn't ever do that to my home or family, but I'm glad you chose to take her in. I'm eager to see how this progresses.
 
/ Found a coyote, I think #44  
Raspy, I'm glad that it's you going through the experience. Ive been enjoying watching the story unfold, and I thank you for the timely updates. I wouldn't ever do that to my home or family, but I'm glad you chose to take her in. I'm eager to see how this progresses.

+1

Seems you've got a good handle on things.

Looking forward to further updates.
 
/ Found a coyote, I think #45  
a few years ago my wife noticed that a sparow was dead on our deck. I knew that there was a nest above the deck under the storm flashing for the chimney, so I went to the nest and found a newly hatched very hungry sparrow. Boy are they ugly!
I plugged in one of our incubators and placed Stinky, yes I named it, inside it with a few torn bits of rag. Then I went into the coop and started soaking layer rashion with milk and chopped up worm. Stinky loved the warm digs and diet.
We had to teach him to fly and once he was flying the window was left open without the screen. It took a few weeks for stinky to leave but with the calling of other sparrows he or she finnaly joined the flock.
But he always came over for a perch on a shoulder and a rub on the head. This horrified the wild sparrows and after time the visits became few untill we noticed that he was no longer visiting.
Our job was done and all was at piece with the world. That is untill the next spring when a sparrow was knocking at the window. Stinky came back and showed us his or her mate then took off. We never saw Stinky after that. Except in our memories.
My story here is not ment to put any preasure on your decission, you will know what needs to be done when the time comes.
 
/ Found a coyote, I think #46  
Robert,

She does howl pretty easily. We are doing as you say and softly howl together. Another excellent way is for my wife to play her harmonica. Whenever she does, our little terrier starts right in howling like crazy. So funny. That sets off Sandy and off they go.

There are a lot of coyotes around us and we hear them every night. They cross our place and we hear them, as a pack, on either side at different times. I have tried to go out at night and see them. I can get close but when I turn on the light they all go silent and disappear. Just blend into the night.

We are away right now so her pals are out of range.

I can't figure out if she is making us howl or if we are making her howl. :laughing:

I realize the importance of privacy, but if you could get a video of that and put a link on here it would be great. You probably know that you can upload it to photobucket or any number of websites (youtube.... might make you rich), everyone would enjoy it and perhaps better understand your dilemma.
Regarding the howling...... I think this may be somewhat key to allowing your visitor to acclimate as a member of the pack. She needs to know her place, just as her littermates and her mom would teach.
These are social animals and they will either lead or follow, she can't be the leader.....that won't work.
 
/ Found a coyote, I think
  • Thread Starter
#47  
Robert,

Don't know about the video, maybe. It's a good idea.

Sounds like you have a lot of understanding about the dog world.

As far as the social structure goes, you're right, we can't allow her to be the leader. Dogs thrive on a structure they understand. They have to know who is dominant and they like routine. So we are working on both of those issues.

We take her out to the same place, feed her with the same routine, put her in her box (den) at the same times, etc. She has already demonstrated submission to one of the other dogs, but she's so young it might not last.

She is getting the routine and knows where to go when she goes out and knows how to get back in afterward. But a lot of her activity seems like random wandering or looking for a place to suckle.

The growling might be the most telling and indicative of the future. She growls a lot. Most of it during play, but it's like the default expression. For instance she can't see very well and growls, sometimes, when bumping into things. She grabs a mouthful of blankets. Then shakes and growls. This is cute now, but it's the kill method later. When she and I are playing and I'm gently batting her around, she growls and I let her take my hand into her mouth. She is the most gentle with the softest wolf kiss.

This morning she was stepping in her food bowl and my wife lifted her up. She growled and snapped, like playing, but more serious and it was not during play. Certainly not passive like our other dogs that will snap at each other briefly over food, but can be moved away from it by us with no problem.

The whole idea of following rules or establishing dominance is completely new to her. She's just who she is with no forethought, and very young. So it's difficult to get a message through. For instance I might think she wants to play, but she just wants to find a place to suckle. I might not want her to leave her den but she'll try over and over even with me telling her no and tapping her on the nose and putting her back in, etc. I wouldn't call it stubborn, so much as it's a completely new idea that takes a while to get through. But she will learn a walking routine on her own and know where we're going. She got used to a leash in about a day and it didn't bother her after that. Right away she could step over it and turn to untangle it in her legs. I was really surprised.

The dominance thing with dogs is interesting. It's not a consensus. It is sort of an agreement, but not based on mutual good, so much as aggression. It's not planned and it cannot be switched under some circumstances, and still work well. For instance if I'm dominate with the pack, but let our dog decide where we will go on our walk, she becomes more difficult to manage by wandering farther, hesitating when I call, or just ignoring me. If I lay it out with a definite plan, she's fine. So different than walking with a friend or spouse, where you might decide together where to go and what the pace might be all along the way. Food too. When I'm on a trip I take one of our dogs. If we stop and I get her something, she expects me to eat first and is uncomfortable if I offer her some of mine at the same time.

I'm wondering if dominance over food will be the first clearly wild attitude we see from Sandy. It could get dangerous at that point and be telling. But the problem could go away once the food is gone and we will, once again, have control over her. Hmmmm. Maybe. If so, that would be a good time to take a hint and get more serious about her new home.

Meanwhile, my wife is the dominant one in the dog world here. She is very clear about when and how they do things, and they all trust and love her.

Every dog I've had is different and interesting. The little terrier we have now is the best dog I've ever had. Such a pal. So sweet most of the time and always eager to go along. Full of fun. But if another dog gets between her and Sandy, and seems like a threat in any way, look out. She'll jump right up and hang on their jowl with a fierce snarl.

The whole dog world is so interesting. And they are so successful.
 
/ Found a coyote, I think #48  
I think you have a good handle on things. The expression of dominance over food is non negotiable the dog world. All dogs have different limits, some are passive, some aggressive and most in-between. If a dog shows high aggression when food is around, there is not much any of us owners can do about it because it's in the genetic make-up, not a choice of the dog. A gentile loving dog in every other aspect can draw blood at the food bowl and yelling or punishment will have no effect.

Now, if she turns out to be food driven and/or has a high ball drive, I really want to know how far you can train her? You are in a interesting situation and have an opportunity to learn some things that not many others know.

As far a Youtube......hmmm, me thinks that you might not only open the worms, but drop the can and spill 'em all over a "public" sidewalk....that gets one gazillion hits a day.
 
/ Found a coyote, I think #49  
This has the potential to be a episode on the Dog Whisperer. I think you should just contact Cesar Millan now...:laughing:
 
/ Found a coyote, I think #50  
First of all I thank you for the under taking. I am sorry to tell you that your wife has become the Alpha, with Sandy bonding with her you are a companion, a little higher on the (totem pole as I call it with our fur children).
If you want any manner of succes she MUST be socialised with everyone and anything she could come in contact with! Being a female you will have less butting heads about dominace, male are more hard headed. You need to work with her while feeding so she knows that her food is not going to be taken from her and she doesn't need to fight over it. You have an escape plan if absolutly needed, but with be extremely difficult after this time. We have raised a number of wild critters through the years and they all are a little different in their mannerisums. I think the Coyote will be a little slower than a domestic dog in maturing, ( bouncing off the walls and being head strong, typical knot headed). Playing with her is good, but you shouldn't ruff house with her, some animals can take this without becoming more aggressive but you are dealing with a wild creature that doesn't need any encouagement in the area. It is good the one dog is (protecting her, that will switch sides later on). Good luck and have fun.
 
/ Found a coyote, I think
  • Thread Starter
#51  
Randy,

Thanks for the comments. I agree about the socializing. It's hard to have her meet a lot of people and get used to being around them. Since we have to keep a low profile and since most people have a knee jerk reaction to the word coyote, she mainly spends time with us and our other animals. Some friends that meet her are very standoffish.

This whole thing does have a bitter sweet side to it. As we become more attached to her and get to know her better, it becomes harder to go do anything and we know she will eventually be gone. Today, for instance, we'd like to go out shopping and running errands. She'll go with us, but we can't stop at the park for a run or leave her in the car for long or introduce her to other dogs or people, etc. When we first got her she went, inside a little pouch, into stores, homes and restaurants, unnoticed.

We travel back and forth between Nevada and California. CA used to be my permanent place, but now it's Nevada. My wife might stay in Nevada when we go back next week, until Sandy's fate is decided. And I'm expecting that could be soon.

Last night, after dark, we took her out for a nice walk after dark. The farthest she has gone and it was fun to see her run and explore a bit. She still doesn't seem to control her temperature very well and was shivering. Wary too, about noises. But back inside, after struggling up the steps, fell asleep in my lap with some contented murmurs.
 
/ Found a coyote, I think #52  
You would be surprized how many people would not have a clue if you didn't tell them upfront, just tell them she is a mixed breed you picked up! I have two the next up the foodchain from yours and I don't think I want another dog after these. As for disposition I have watched the male share a sucker with a three year old boy, they took turns licking it!! No aggression not even when the little boy shoved it a little to far in. My Female is 8 and the Male is 4, I think he is finally done growing!!! We have an underground fence for the boy, he thinks his territory is as far as he can see, and HE CAN RUN. The female she stays pretty much in her yard, we live on top of a hill so she watches over her kingdom, she might sneek down and visit the neighbor if they are out, but she doesn't bother any thing. They are both registered as mixed breeds, there is really no way to tell other because even DNA on any K9 will come back to (canius lubis) as all dog breeds had they origins there.
 
/ Found a coyote, I think
  • Thread Starter
#55  
Dean,

Yeah, I've already ordered her book and read everything she has posted. She's very interesting woman.

There are others too, but she's the best one. If I remember correctly, she got her coyote at about 10 days old and probably after it's imprinting stage. We got ours at an estimated three days or so. Sandy seems to clearly have imprinted on my wife. And she was old enough to have gotten her mother's antibodies.
 
/ Found a coyote, I think #56  
Raspy: Did you make any decisions yet? She should be growing quickly at this stage.
 
/ Found a coyote, I think
  • Thread Starter
#57  
We're not ready to let her go yet and she's getting along quite well. Like any puppy at 6 weeks old, she's active and sometimes a handful.

She still can't see very well, but is steadily improving. No more bottle feeding. We started her on canned food and kibbles with a couple of days of milk mixed with kibbles and she immediately took to it. Now she is on canned and kibbles completely. She figured out how to drink water after getting a nose full a couple of times. We feed her three times a day.

We have a big plastic container for her to sleep in and she'll stay in there quietly for about four hours. Then she scratches to get out and we take her outside. We say "go home" and she runs back in. Then we say "eat" and she stares at us waiting for dinner.

She has been on a collar and leash for about a week now. We leave her hooked up a lot and she drags it all around without complaint, but won't walk very well on it if we try to lead her, especially if it's into an area she's not familiar with. Skittish.

She is very touching with her affectionate and trusting ways. She's always ready to be held and she'll sleep soundly in the middle of the room completely secure. But loud noises or strange dogs or strange people cause her to run and hide. She's very cautious with anything unknown.

So, it's somewhat demanding, but a great learning experience and a lot of fun. Being so cautious and wary will probably become a big problem when she is bigger and stronger. And any aggressiveness toward our other dogs will indicate it's time to go.

I'm thinking about the vet situation. Maybe if I just took her in and said I thought she was a Jindo, it would work out. Especially if we do it soon before she looks more mature. Rabies shots at four months is the issue.

More later.
 

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/ Found a coyote, I think #58  
I don't think you will fool a vet. Maybe some young city vet...but even then I doubt it.

Personally, I would look for a country vet from a small town two or three towns over. Give him a call, tell him what you got but not who you are or where you are from. If you get a good feeling from the vet, go ahead and take it in. Get there a few minutes late, and if you see a conservation truck in the parking lot - keep on driving.

I used to work for a vet in high school. Thought about becoming a vet, but the truth is most country vets make a living, but it's tough job, often for low pay (compared to the amount of schooling). These people are vets because they love animals. And for them to get to treat a fox would be like your corner mechanic getting to work on a supercar. Doesn't happen that often, and I think it would be the highlight of the month for the vet.

If you are real paranoid, use a fake name, etc and pay in cash.
 
/ Found a coyote, I think #59  
We're not ready to let her go yet and she's getting along quite well. Like any puppy at 6 weeks old, she's active and sometimes a handful.

She still can't see very well, but is steadily improving. No more bottle feeding. We started her on canned food and kibbles with a couple of days of milk mixed with kibbles and she immediately took to it. Now she is on canned and kibbles completely. She figured out how to drink water after getting a nose full a couple of times. We feed her three times a day.

We have a big plastic container for her to sleep in and she'll stay in there quietly for about four hours. Then she scratches to get out and we take her outside. We say "go home" and she runs back in. Then we say "eat" and she stares at us waiting for dinner.

She has been on a collar and leash for about a week now. We leave her hooked up a lot and she drags it all around without complaint, but won't walk very well on it if we try to lead her, especially if it's into an area she's not familiar with. Skittish.

She is very touching with her affectionate and trusting ways. She's always ready to be held and she'll sleep soundly in the middle of the room completely secure. But loud noises or strange dogs or strange people cause her to run and hide. She's very cautious with anything unknown.

So, it's somewhat demanding, but a great learning experience and a lot of fun. Being so cautious and wary will probably become a big problem when she is bigger and stronger. And any aggressiveness toward our other dogs will indicate it's time to go.

I'm thinking about the vet situation. Maybe if I just took her in and said I thought she was a Jindo, it would work out. Especially if we do it soon before she looks more mature. Rabies shots at four months is the issue.

More later.

You don't need a vet to get rabies vaccine, unless is a state law.....
Rabvac 3 - 10 Dose Vial | Pet Supplies, Horse Supplies, Dog Supplies | KVsupply.com
Or Parvo,,,,
http://www.kvsupply.com/KVVet/produ...alse&mscssid=FD998FC623EC457D968A8BE7253AAD64

I would think that this animal will be a lot more resistant to these viruses than your average house pet. You probably took a biger risk when you exposed your dog to the yote pup. That's the one you should most likely get vaccinated or re vaccinated. I would think that any issues would be apparent by this time
 
/ Found a coyote, I think
  • Thread Starter
#60  
Dean, That's a good suggestion. Thanks.

Robert, Thanks for the link!


It would be nice to get established with a cooperative vet so that, in case of an emergency, we could get treatment for her. If she got injured or something.

More later. We're having folks over for dinner and neighbors have been dropping by. Grand Central around here.
 

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