Ford 1710 three point will not raise

[hawkone115]

Greetings folks,

Hope I posted my issue in the correct forum. I own a 4x4 Ford 1710 tractor. UL06201 Unit #4J13B. I have never has any issues with any part of the tractor (except water pump) until now. The tractor has 1100 hrs. on it. For the first time last week I could not get the three point to raise. I notice I was low on hydraulic fluid so I put in about 1 gallon. I changed all hydraulic fluid today including front axle. No luck as the rear three point will not raise. I can raise it by hand lifting and it moves rather freely. The front loader works great with no problems.

I bought a county line brush hog from tractor supply about two years ago. I did noticed that when I raise the brush hog if I had it raised high the hydraulic hoses to the front loader would tend to pulsate, my usual reaction was to just lower three point a little until the hoses stopped pulsating.

Since I started with the fluid change I am now seeking advice for the next step. The fluid had not been changed in a few years, and was a little discolored but not bad. The hydraulic filter was also changed (NAPA 1736).

Thanks
Ted

 

[Hooked_on_HP]

I am guessing that your seal on the lift piston is shot. here is a post by JC with plenty of pics on how to fix it http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/new-holland-owning-operating/90819-my-f-1700-testing-my.html

 

[hawkone115]

Thanks Hooked_on_HP,

I took the piston out and discovered the crumbling piston seal. I replaced it at the NH dealer. Placed it back in and nothing is happening. I have turned the dial in both directions for fast and slow loading. Made a 60 mile trip today to get the seal, kind of disappointed but not giving up yet...BTW this tractor has power steering (works great) FEL (works great). I rechecked the old thread mentioned, to make sure the dealer installed the piston seal correctly (uchannel faces up towards piston head so it can flare out under pressure. I did start tractor again because I was so disappointed. I removed nut (where I saw on the previous thread where the pressure gauge is connected to) little to no oil coming out, had a little air pressure release when I unscrewed it. I also remove the nut opposite with locking nut attached. I started tractor and no fluid? I have re-read the thread a few times, but am ponder what to do next? Do I need to bleed the system to get the pressure back to the rear tph cylinder

 

[JC-jetro]

Ted,

It is good that you changed the seal. Bad seal is a "no go" however you look at it. You need to concentrate to see if you have flow. Flow can be negatively impacted by suction blockage (filter, screen and such) or bad pump (weak and tired pump). I think in that thread linked above by Bill I went over overhauling my pump. Not saying that your pump is bad but need to test it out. If you take the pipe off at the relief device and put a bucket underneath might be able to at least see flow or no flow. You do have a hyd suction filter? right?

JC,


ps. You probably would have gotten more hits posting in NH Owning and Operating forum than general parts and repair.

 

[hawkone115]

Hello JC,
My filter is located on the left side foot plate (Napa 1736) I just changed it out yesterday. I have no idea where the pressure relief pipe is. If you could describe Or I can take a few pictures if that helps?

 

[hawkone115]

p.s. still learning the site, thanks jetro

 

[JC-jetro]

Ted,

I'd follow the smaller dia pipe from the pump to the hyd block or relief device. Need to see where you can loosen the pipe without causing damage. You want a pipe that is open on the discharge of the pump and may be use a hose and a clamp to direct the flow safely in to a bucket. Pump will have some flow but not the normal pressure as gear type pump can build pressure against the relief pressure spring setting. It is raining in KC now and is getting dark so probably needs to be checked tomorrow.

JC,

 

[sixdogs]

Does your tractor have a hydraulic suction screen? It would be under a round cover on the side of the trans. It has three bolts and a tube that comes out of it.

 

[hawkone115]

Hi Sixdogs,

Not to my knowledge. It has a hydraulic filter ot the left side. My first thought was a sump filter but I do not beleive so.

 

[hawkone115]

.



More pictures

 

[hawkone115]

Got curious when I read another thread about sump filters. I am posting another picture because I am curious if this is an inline screen filter inside the rubber hose? Thihs line also goes into the hydo filter on the left side of the tractor. I imagine this is the suction side since there is a rubber hose between the two steel lines?

 

[Hooked_on_HP]

If the loader and PS are working the pump is good. You could still have some air trapped in the system. Do you have a valve by the foot rest that diverts the fluid to the loader or the TPH. If you do this valve has an adjustment so that you can increase the flow to the TPH or the loader. When was the last time you used the TPH.
Bill

 

[hawkone115]

I was reading on another thread when someone mentioned a screen filter? This line goes from what I believe is the suction side of the pump from the hydo filter. Just curious if anyone knows if there is a filter screen inside the rubber hose? BTW, the picture is sideways needs rotated so rubber hose is actuall vertical to the piping.

 

[hawkone115]

Hi Bill,

I used the TPH less than a week ago. Showing my son how to drive tractor we dropped the blade on the back to load firewood in the FLB. Went to raise rear blade no go (freaky).

I will post a picture of the diverter block. I was thinking the same thing, but since this is a pdp pump, I find it hard to understand how air would be trapped. As a side note, I went out about an hour ago to check the rear hydro vent. I raised the cap and heard a slight hiss of air. hmm very slight air release, so perhaps there is air in the system? I am trying to address all the simple stuff first.

I just posted another photo of a rubber hose attached going to the pump wondering if I missed cleaning or replacing another filter?

If the adjustment is there on the diverter block I will try it since I don't beleive I can hurt anything? I also saw on the bottom of the diverter a plug on the bottom, so I may take that off and see if the diverter has a screen or is clogged?

I forgot to mention earlier that I removed and replace a large bolt below the hydro filter just before refilling with fluid. It had sleeve on it with 4 ports but no screen...and very clean.

Thanks
Ted

 

[sixdogs]

Hi Sixdogs,

Not to my knowledge. It has a hydraulic filter ot the left side. My first thought was a sump filter but I do not beleive so.

I used to have a 1900 and a 2110 and am straining my memory but I had possibly had a sump screen as well as a hydraulic filter. It was under a three bolt circular cover on the side of the trans. Is there a way you could check with a parts dealer or look at a shop mannual or parts book? You will need serial number if you do.

 

[sixdogs]

Not sure if anyone mentioned it but I think there is a knob to turn under and in front of the seat--I think--that controls the rate of drop of the 3-pt hitch. It could be all the way open. Excuse my vagueness on this but I have owned several of these tractors and can't remember exactly. All were great tractors with zero problems which leads me to think you have a simple solution.

Are you in a cold climate?

 

[JC-jetro]

Ted,

There is no reason to guess if you have hyd screen or not. I did go to NH website and verified that you don't have it. Familiarize yourself with the website below, put in 1710 as your model and check all that you want in reference to parts break down of your rig. If you have any other hyd system work such as your loader then your pump is okay and your flow is not getting to your lift spool or getting totally bypassed. Do you have any loader? does it work? Fiddling with the rate of drop button under the seat situated between your legs does nothing at all to raise lift arms. It only controls rate of drop, in other words if it it is totally closed (turning toward turtle) then you can not lower the arm. You need to establish flow by observing loader work or breaking the line on the discharge of the pump safely to verify it.

JC,




Official New Holland Online Parts Store and Online Parts Catalog for New Holland and Ford Tractors.

 

[hawkone115]

Hi JC,

Yep, I have a loader and it works quite well. The loader is a Koyker (although the hydraulics leak a little on the bucket cylinders need some new seals). I am going to take the check valve out on the left side of the piston head and move the lift arm up to see if I have any flow at all. Two springs and two steel balls as I recall seeing in your post. And yes my intention is to find a place to disconnect the discharge line once I determine where that is past the rear of the diverter block going to the loader. I did have fluid in the piston before I took it apart yesterday. If it is warm enough tomorrow I am on shift today. I may try some steps inside my (thank God) heated garage tomorrow.

First hail last night, thunder this morning with rain, then snow and wind, now sun is out setting in west. All we need now is some lightning and tornadoes welcome to Kansas!

 

[hawkone115]

Thanks sixdogs,

The flow control knob has been turned both directions and I am aware it only controls rate of drop.

 

[Hooked_on_HP]

There is a rod that goes from the right lift arm to the control valve. Is this hooked up. This puts the valve for the TPH in bypass when the lift arms are all the way up. If it is unhooked and in the up position the control valve would think the TPH was all the way up and would bypass the fluid instead of sending it to the lift piston.
Bill